|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Psilocybe semilanceata/ liberty cap & plant rhizomes - experimental
#28255499 - 03/30/23 10:09 PM (9 months, 24 days ago) |
|
|
I would do this myself but I do not have all the supplies, nor the current means. But to anyone interested, I have been interested in growing P. semilanceata but as you probably know this is not an easy task. I may be an amateur mycologist.
I have been researching how this may be possible, and I have only seen a handful of other people mentioned online who have successfully fruited this species.
I have a hypothesis that may not be exclusive to me but that I began thinking of on my own. I haven't seen this written anywhere either.
It is said that the mycelium feeds off the dead roots of the grasses in wetland areas and often in tufts of grass where the soil has had sheep, or other sh** in the soil.
There are a few observations I made researching this species in its natural environment. I'd love to be able to go find these some time in person, but nevertheless... this is all hypothetical anyway.
People always mention the sedges.
Notice these plants which grow around psilocybe semilanceata
Rhytidiadelphus squarrosus moss, grows horizontally
 Deschampsia cespitosa
I am hypothesizing that the mycelium grows with the root system, and with the rhizomes that grow horizontally. During the winter the rhizomes die, and this not only provides food, but also shelter from the soil. I hypothesize that the mycelium grows inside of the hollowed out rhizomes
P. Sem in a line, growing with the rhizome under the soil
 Reed sweet grass rhizome


Cyperus longus roots

These plants, I think, are crucial to these mushrooms
I also think there is something to potentially be aware of if one thought about trying to grow these.
Take a look at a map versus where these are found and the copper distribution and concentration of that area.
 The copper concentration seems to go from high and then medium to low and with a few spots very low. These mushrooms seem to hang out where the copper concentration is going down but it still relatively high. I wonder if this has to do with them being able to survive in, and thus prefering by virtue of evolution, an environment where not many other fungal species can live. To make it more interesting...
Psilocybe semilanceata mycelium has antimicrobial properties that prevent fungal root rot in these grasses. I think this is because the fungus needs these rhizome systems intact for it to grow. I don't think it is merely decomposing the roots of these plants, and nor do I think this is a case of parasitism.
I think the copper concentration in one's soil mix would need to be about in the yellow... I'm not sure but I think this may be part of why the mycelium would need the shelter of the inside of a rhizome in order to get a foothold, as copper is not particularly easy on fungi. I think there is indeed a symbiotic relationship going on, and perhaps even something like mycorrhizae, but I can't say for certain.
If one wanted to try to implement an indoor setup, one would want to have a soil/substrate mix, likely 1 - 1½ feet deep, in a three by three space where the temperature can be controlled. I would use a slightly acidic soil base setup with peat moss. I would also use horse manure or sheep dung if I could get it. You would need a grow light and a clear, tall lid to place across the entire grow space. Think a really big monotub, but in a grow tent. The soil would be inlaid with a proper concentration of copper, or perhaps one would want to do a test run dividing the space into two test groups, one with added copper and one without. I think buying a grass rhizome online that is already dead could serve as a means of spreading the spores all on top of the soil mix. Liquid spores syringes could be used to squirt all the spores onto the rhizomes, preferably inside the intact hollow ones. These inoculated rhizomes would then be spread all over the top of the soil and then soil would be put on top of it to cover Then the actual plants would be planted and allowed to grow.
In order to get it to fruit, I hypothesize you would need to constantly maintain this grow environment, allowing the moss to grow, the whatever sedges, like pond sedges, or Carex riparia, and the grasses like the deschampsia or sweet grass etc. Etc. My idea is as long as you can keep some of the grass dying and going into the soil, when you then drop the temperature, probably gradually and raise the humidity, you could likely get the entire chamber to fruit consistently.
I don't know what kind of maintenance this would take, but I would then similate a short winter with some sort of air conditioner unit hooked up to the grow tent where some of the vegetation can actually die and then after a couple weeks turn the heat back up again and just simulate mini season cycles, and I bet you could do this for quite some time.
Edited by Blue_Lux (03/31/23 10:22 AM)
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28255521 - 03/30/23 10:50 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Addendum :
1. You want to keep the humidity high when fruiting 2. You would have to have some artificial means of getting the grow space very cold, perhaps even in the low 40s, and I'm not sure how feasible that is but it is probably possible if you get a unit that can get the space really cold 3. You would want some sort of insulation likely to keep the environment cut off from whatever room environment, vapor pressure, etc 4. You would want a humidifier hooked up to run inside of the area, and you would need to clean it weekly or whatever
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28255526 - 03/30/23 10:56 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
|
|
There is another post with a similar idea about Psilocybe mushrooms and rhizomes, which can be found at the link below
-quote- What I’m interested in, and haven’t seen much if any discussion about yet, is what role plant rhizomes, or plants with rhizomatic root systems etc, may potentially play in this process in nature, and if this in part explains why azurescens only appear to grow in the wild from the roots of dune grasses- particularly Ammophila arenaria (European beach grass).
In my own hunting for cyanescens I’ve found that they fruit very commonly in the presence of plants, and often invasive species/weeds that notoriously spread through rhizomes. (This also seems to be the case with, for example, ps. ovoideocystidiata, which are often found feeding from decaying Japanese knotweed- an infamously invasive species that can spread through rhizomes up to forty feet.) My first significant cyan find (pics at the bottom) was around the base of a sword fern, with a large number of fruits densely clumped together appearing to grow straight from the fern’s root system. I haven’t found this in any other patch, but throughout this whole area there were mushrooms at the base of a network of ferns in an area maybe 20 x 50 feet, mulched with shredded alder. This got me wondering if something about the ferns’ roots played a part in successful wild fruiting.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27270941
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
Edited by Blue_Lux (03/30/23 10:59 PM)
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: CreonAntigone]
#28256508 - 03/31/23 04:27 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
|
|
I'd rather try this indoors, and I don't have a good place for it right now.
And that is very interesting. I'd like to know how it turns out. As well, I've also heard yes you're right some sort of perhaps wetland simulation would work! 
I am really interested to find out how this goes for you.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: ohkw]
#28256514 - 03/31/23 04:30 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Interesting. Yes... psilocybe semilanceata has been grown... but not consistently or in any manner that produces many of them. This is why I suspect the rhizomes have something to do with it. And yes you are right I overlooked that. The rhizome is not what is going to die during the winter... but would eventually die in certain places, creating hollow shoots. I was speculating about this may occur. Thank you for the information
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: CreonAntigone]
#28256530 - 03/31/23 04:43 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
|
|
I think you need an established system beneath the soil from grass, moss, sedges, etc. I think this is the only way the mycelium is going to naturally form in the soil. And I think you could do this if you could simulate seasons. Outdoors this would take at least a year. If the system is going to produce naturally then it most likely needs the microorganisms and movements of rhizomes and etc. I have even read that psilocybe semilanceata primordia are stimulated by microorganisms in the soil, if I am not mistaken. I cannot remember where I read this, but I mean great luck to you and your experiment. I'd love to see pictures of it. I'm not sure but I think the mycelium grows in hollowed out plant material, and then subsequently grows, once established in the area, from the sheep dung or horse dung and also the grass that gets cut back and dies.
I don't know. I'd like to see this mushroom dug up to see exactly how the mycelium is growing underground with the roots of these plants.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: luteofolius 2.0]
#28256749 - 03/31/23 07:21 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
|
|
I'm going to have to find that on shroomery. What I had in mind was something like a monotub because some people prefer doing things in smaller, controlled spaces. Thanks for your information I really appreciate it.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: myc_ousin_vinny]
#28258414 - 04/01/23 10:24 PM (9 months, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Can you link it for me please
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28259101 - 04/02/23 12:08 PM (9 months, 21 days ago) |
|
|
do you happen to play runescape? your picture is absolutely ridiculous btw   
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
Edited by Blue_Lux (04/02/23 12:09 PM)
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: P. Semilanceata / Liberty Cap potential method for growing [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28259107 - 04/02/23 12:11 PM (9 months, 21 days ago) |
|
|
And thanks, I'm going to favorite both of those actually
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
|
Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
|
Re: Psilocybe semilanceata/ liberty cap & plant rhizomes - experimental [Re: Blue_Lux] 1
#28287256 - 04/20/23 07:22 PM (9 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Paul Stamets discussing 8 days ago posted Psilocybe semilanceata and grass rhizomes, and he also mentions a pseudo mycorrhizaal relationship, which is exactly what I had thought! Awesome! He says this at 24minutes and 40 seconds into the video 24:40
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
|
|