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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28273339 - 04/11/23 06:06 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Absolutely, but that requires 34 states to agree.

The much more likely option is a tortured twisting of the constitution into fetal personhood. The judge K-something that just banned abortion pills refusing to use the word "fetus", instead preferring "unborn human" in his opinion banning the first abortion pill hints heavily at this pathway.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28273342 - 04/11/23 06:07 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

America forces people to pay excessive premiums and deductibles that other countries like Australia don't have.

Universal healthcare means our taxes are used to pay for our healthcare.

Hospitals aren't forced to provide care outside of continuing to do their regular jobs. They have priorities and waiting lists for certain injuries or procedures too.

Human rights, citizen rights whatever you want to call it, everyone should have access to healthcare services without facing financial hardship or discrimination. One nation at a time.

And with the federal ruling to ban access to an abortion medication, it makes it harder for millions of women to have safe and accessible abortions. It reduces their options and is one step towards a national ban on abortions.

Some bills have even been proposed to ban the morning after pill.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: sudly]
    #28273470 - 04/11/23 07:36 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Universal healthcare is a great idea. Calling it a human right is empty rhetoric.

Federal bans on certain drugs are commonplace. Calling that an abortion ban is empty rhetoric.

The more you engage in dishonest debate, the less credible you are.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28273552 - 04/11/23 08:45 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Universal healthcare is a great idea. Calling it a human right is empty rhetoric.

Federal bans on certain drugs are commonplace. Calling that an abortion ban is empty rhetoric.

The more you engage in dishonest debate, the less credible you are.




In Australia it is considered a human right, or at the very least treated as though it is one.

Not sure why you're so held up on the semantics and not the substance which I have made clear, but you seem to agree it's good so that's good.

The drug has been proven safe for over 20 years with millions of women using it. Banning it makes it harder for millions of women to access safe abortions.

It's one part of the Republican attempt to nationally ban abortions, and at this point if you think I mean it is a federal ban on abortion, and not one step on the way to a federal ban on abortion, that would be intellectually dishonest on your part.

Bill by bill there are attempts to limit women's rights, limit their access to abortions, punish others for helping them and in a lot of states outright banning it.

Whether its from states or federal courts, the intent is clear.

A Republican controlled Senate or presidency could also pass legislation to restrict or ban abortions on a federal level, the caveat being it would likely face legal challenges that would ultimately depend on the interpretation of the constitution by the courts.


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Offline336
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: Enlil]
    #28275913 - 04/13/23 01:41 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Universal healthcare is a great idea. Calling it a human right is empty rhetoric.

Federal bans on certain drugs are commonplace. Calling that an abortion ban is empty rhetoric.

The more you engage in dishonest debate, the less credible you are.



:whathesaid:


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"Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336] * 1
    #28275923 - 04/13/23 01:47 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Great job ignoring all the context I've provided :cookiemonster:


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Offline336
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: sudly]
    #28275943 - 04/13/23 02:03 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

I just read what you said, I still agree with Enlil on this one. Ironically I don't think either of us disagrees with you so. More so he is pointing out how you could probably leave the emotion out of your point while maintaining your position and perhaps finding a compromise between you and your opposition.

Or at least that is my stance. I think we need to realize that we have to compromise sometimes. I say we should allow the states to run themselves as they wish, and allow people to leave those states if they so wish, and the federal government should intervene in such legislation as much as possible, so long as such legislation does not interfere with The Constitution. Some people believe a certain way, and there really is no point trying to force them to change. That never works, it only emboldens their resistance against you.


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"Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336]
    #28275960 - 04/13/23 02:15 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Specifics would be appreciated for which points I should, 'leave the emotion out of'.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offline336
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: sudly]
    #28275968 - 04/13/23 02:20 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Everything. :lol:

In a way, I'm talking to myself right now as much as I am you.


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"Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336]
    #28275986 - 04/13/23 02:30 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

The problem with some states/peoples beliefs are that they fuck with what should be because of fear and ignorance and non tolerance. Some peoples/states do not ever want to progress to the future, they are quite comfy in their ignorance and holier than thou fear of god horse shit. Yes, this is full of emotion. I second that emotion!


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336]
    #28276004 - 04/13/23 02:40 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Everything. :lol:

In a way, I'm talking to myself right now as much as I am you.




Leaves have stomata.. I think it's reasonable to be able to discern emotion from observation and I would appreciate it if you could point to a single point I've made you think is emotional.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offline336
menehune


Registered: 09/01/22
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #28276016 - 04/13/23 02:47 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
The problem with some states/peoples beliefs are that they fuck with what should be because of fear and ignorance and non tolerance. Some peoples/states do not ever want to progress to the future, they are quite comfy in their ignorance and holier than thou fear of god horse shit. Yes, this is full of emotion. I second that emotion!



Perhaps you are right, but trying to force someone to change is impossible. It's like a Christian trying to convert a homosexual into being straight. This is one of the great things about the US having many states with near-autononomy, it allows for those who believe a certain way to rule themselves a certain way, and it it allows those to disagree to move to another state that more agrees with them. However, when the federal government gets involved in denying rights that are guaranteed by the constitution that is where a problem comes into play, as well as when states do so, though to less of a degree. The only way forward is compromise, and we have to except that some people will never agree with us. Unless we propose that we should eradicate all those who disagree with us, the only other option is to compromise.

What I find interesting and comical about America is how essentially both parties have become puritanical (at least on the surface level propaganda, because in reality, they all work for the NWO MIC) in contrasting ways in regards to social issues.


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"Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336] * 1
    #28276037 - 04/13/23 02:59 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

In regards to abortion, compromise often means limiting or eliminating the reproductive rights of women, which is not fair or just. Even compromising by allowing abortions only in certain circumstances denies individuals the right to make choices about their own bodies and futures, and fails to address the multiple reasons why people seek abortions.

The issue of abortion rights is fundamentally about bodily autonomy and gender equality, and compromising on these rights is not reasonable or fair to women. Any compromise that restricts or denies these rights is a violation of women's basic human rights.

Roe V Wade was the compromise that treated women's autonomy and rights fairly.


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Offline336
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: sudly]
    #28276051 - 04/13/23 03:11 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

You mean like the government and corporations forcing people to be vaccinated with experimental shit that had barely been tested?

I get your point, two wrongs don't make a right, but there is always the option to move to another state or country. It might suck, but the matter of the fact is, if the majority of people in an area believe something there is little point trying to force them to comply with the minority belief in that area. Luckily for America, there are many states that 'represent' both sides of the spectrum. I just wish we were more concerned about the real issues afflicting our society and world, vis-a-vis wealth inequality and neo-slavery.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336]
    #28276065 - 04/13/23 03:20 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Not expecting anyone to enforce people to change, just tolerate and let live side by side. When a person/state thinks that someone different from what they believe/think is right, try to change it to their beliefs/ways and will not/do not accept them, then that creates MAJOR problems in the usa. The lgbt+ community isn't trying to change anyone's mind, they just want acceptance IMHE. Progress into the future will be sex changes whenever someone feels like it no matter what, abortion for anyone no matter what even if they want to use it as birth control IMHE once again. God, guns, gays, and ganja are 4 of the major issues that hold us back as a society/country.

You seriously think that a person should be arrested and charged for murder for an abortion in a state that votes that way mostly? You seriously think someone should be thrown in jail for crossing into a state that allows it from a state that doesn't? How the fuck would they enforce that? Border walls around every single fucking stAte?!?! That's some crazy fucked up berlin wall fascist horse fuck and I don't want it ANYWHERE in this country! Why the fuck is it OK to suppress and control people due to some fucking book? WTAF?!?!


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Offline336
menehune


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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336]
    #28276112 - 04/13/23 04:04 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

You're missing the point my friend. People disagree. If the majority of the people in your state disagree with you. Move. That's it. It doesn't matter what is fair or just or whatever, the real world doesn't give a fuck about that shit. My advice would be for left-leaning people to move to left-leaning states and vice versa. At least for the foreseeable future. When people can live in a state that they don't disagree with when it comes to social issues, then perhaps all the states can then begin to unite and focus on more important issues that are affecting the majority of the population of the US and the world. That being wealth inequality and neo-slavery as a result of corrupt monopoly capitalism. And let's be honest the left is not pushing for 'acceptance' they are pushing for dominance. Don't delude yourself my friend. That said, it is no different for the right.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336]
    #28276239 - 04/13/23 05:32 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

I see your point. I agree on the capitalists and corporatism thing for sure. Just moving isn't a viable option for a lot of people. Why should people move from the beach in Fla (or anywhere else that's been home for a few generations of families etc) just because right wing christian nationalists are trying to taker it over? It is an endless and seemingly futile discussion/argument no doubt.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336] * 1
    #28276240 - 04/13/23 05:34 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

336 said:
You mean like the government and corporations forcing people to be vaccinated with experimental shit that had barely been tested?

I get your point, two wrongs don't make a right, but there is always the option to move to another state or country. It might suck, but the matter of the fact is, if the majority of people in an area believe something there is little point trying to force them to comply with the minority belief in that area. Luckily for America, there are many states that 'represent' both sides of the spectrum. I just wish we were more concerned about the real issues afflicting our society and world, vis-a-vis wealth inequality and neo-slavery.




The Covid vaccine is the most tested vaccine around with billions of people being fine. People can have allergic reactions to paracetamol too.

People had the freedom not to be vaccinated, and companies had the right not to put themselves or their employees at risk of catching a highly infectious disease.

My point is that it's important to recognize that people's individual beliefs and opinions should not infringe on the rights of others. The government has a responsibility to protect the rights of all individuals, especially those who are marginalized or vulnerable. In the case of reproductive rights, limiting or denying these rights is a violation of women's basic human rights and should not be up for compromise or debate.

The right to bodily autonomy and gender equality, as well as the right to access healthcare, are fundamental human rights that should be protected and upheld.

It's not fair or just to suggest that people should have to uproot their lives and communities to have their basic human rights protected.

It's also of note that the majority of people support reproductive rights and access to safe and legal abortions.

Calling healthcare a human right is as common a term as a vegemite sandwich. It's pretty simple really, and weird imo anyone would extrapolate that to a global conquest.

Obviously universal healthcare requires a transition plan and there are various forms it can take.

I appreciate honesty and being upfront, and to me it sounds like there is minimisation of women's rights.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: 336] * 1
    #28276249 - 04/13/23 05:40 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

336 said:
You're missing the point my friend. People disagree. If the majority of the people in your state disagree with you. Move. That's it. It doesn't matter what is fair or just or whatever, the real world doesn't give a fuck about that shit. My advice would be for left-leaning people to move to left-leaning states and vice versa. At least for the foreseeable future. When people can live in a state that they don't disagree with when it comes to social issues, then perhaps all the states can then begin to unite and focus on more important issues that are affecting the majority of the population of the US and the world. That being wealth inequality and neo-slavery as a result of corrupt monopoly capitalism. And let's be honest the left is not pushing for 'acceptance' they are pushing for dominance. Don't delude yourself my friend. That said, it is no different for the right.




It's ironic you suggest the minority should just up and leave.

Quote:

Broad support for abortion rights: Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 85% as of May 2022, higher than when polling began in 1975 (76%), and the Pew Research Center finds 62% of adults believe abortion should be legal, compared to 60% in 1995—though there has been fluctuation, with support dropping to a low of 47% in 2009.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/04/11/how-americans-really-feel-about-abortion-the-sometimes-surprising-poll-results-as-court-ruling-threatens-mifepristone-access/amp/




Abortion laws directly effect tens of millions of women and men's lives around the US. 

I did make a thread going over issues of wealth inequality and corruption here if you're interested.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28169633/page/1/fpart/all


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Two Wings of the Same Bird [Re: sudly]
    #28276295 - 04/13/23 06:11 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
America forces people to pay excessive premiums and deductibles that other countries like Australia don't have.

Universal healthcare means our taxes are used to pay for our healthcare.



People aren't forced to pay premiums, but people are forced to pay taxes.  Is your problem with the force?  If it is, Universal healthcare increases the amount of forced payment


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