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Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28216839 - 03/06/23 06:11 AM (10 months, 18 days ago)

Yesterday I would close my eyes and scroll the contents of the course to randomly pick a chapter, and the two times I did it went to the nature of this world related to that Wapnick quote, in essence that it is every loving thought composes the actual reality.

Ideally we can experience this here, but it goes again to what it is as OBE, NDE, or after passing. I had bookmarked, and I don't remember from when or where, a book called, Gone West: Three Narratives of After-Death Experiences. I have a feeling I found it around here somewhere. The similarity about thought caught my attention. (There are some misprints here and there in the pdf.) It is channeling from a relative who passed. This is describing an astral world that is very much like this one that's been talked about in other sources as well, which is of course, not the only nature over there but that close to this.

Quote:

“‘Where am I?’ I thought, and no sooner had the idea entered my mind, if indeed one
can use the word, than the ‘Shining One’ seemed to answer.
“‘You are in the land of After-Death. Are you surprised that there are trees and
animals here, and even grass? Know that here comes every thought which you have ever
thought; soon also you shall know that is so, to your sorrow; and, further, here come also
the spiritual forms of all that ever lived. Thus is our Spirit World built up and thus it
constantly increases. All that lives, no matter how humble it be, comes here of itself. All
thoughts come here. Hence you recognize many beauty spots you knew on earth. Hence
also the palm and the oak, and the orchid which you never saw.




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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28216841 - 03/06/23 06:14 AM (10 months, 18 days ago)

I've brought up the question that it seems, and as we see in that quote, our negative thoughts and ignorances also remain and have power, and have to be dealt with somewhere, whereas Christ in the course says only the loving is real and remains and has reality. :shrug:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28217599 - 03/06/23 03:54 PM (10 months, 17 days ago)

Your posts remind me of the concept of chakravarti or wheel turning king. It's said that the Bodhisattvas are wielding the mudras for nonviolent chakravarti rule.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Kickle]
    #28217669 - 03/06/23 04:28 PM (10 months, 17 days ago)

That is good inspiration which I can use. One mudra for you!


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28218675 - 03/07/23 10:09 AM (10 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
I've brought up the question that it seems, and as we see in that quote, our negative thoughts and ignorances also remain and have power, and have to be dealt with somewhere, whereas Christ in the course says only the loving is real and remains and has reality. :shrug:




I don't know either but I feel like the negative thoughts are dealt with here in this experience, as our suffering, and have no further reality than that.  But maybe that's wishful thinking.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28220225 - 03/08/23 07:15 AM (10 months, 16 days ago)

More on thought from Gone West - here the soul was attending a class with a higher teacher.

Quote:

“Then I saw their master or instructor. What a difference! Not merely was he a well-
grown man, but he seemed to be made of light — light which filled the whole classroom
with a bright, soft glow. The bodies of the other boys looked grey, though some were
brighter than the others, and mine, I discovered, was the darkest of them all.
“Next moment I looked round for my guide, but he was gone. But the master took me
quietly by the hand and set me in a seat. Then began the most wonderful lesson I have
ever witnessed. His methods were entirely different to those of the ordinary schoolmaster.
He seemed to draw the knowledge out of the boys rather than attempt to tell them
anything. Most of the questions were quite unintelligible to me, though the others seemed
to understand them quite well. His method consisted in asking cleverly arranged
questions, and the answer to each led on to the next question.
“After a while he turned to me and said, ‘Would you like to ask me any questions?’
“‘How is it,’ I asked, ‘that everything looks so solid here, and, above all, how is it I
have a body? I thought I was a spirit.’
“He. ‘What do all human beings consist of?’
“H. J. L. Body and soul.
“He. ‘How would a scientist define these?’
“H. J. L. Matter and force.
“He. ‘Good. What happens to the matter when you die? Is it destroyed?’
“H. J. L. Matter can’t be destroyed. It merely changes its form. My body will rot and
become earth, and plants will grow out of it.
“He. ‘What of the force which made that body act?’
“H.J. L. It has come here. It is the spirit. It, too, cannot perish.
“He. ‘Neither the matter nor the force perish. Yet is the body on the earth the same as
when you lived?’
“H.J.L. No.
“He. ‘What makes it different? If you were to look at it now, wherein would it chiefly
differ?’
“H. J. L. Well, it would be losing its old shape. Its form would be different.
“He. ‘The form would have gone. If neither the matter nor the force perish, what
happens to the form? Can that perish?’
“H.J.L. I do not see why not.
“He. ‘What of the form of the thoughts which haunt you? Their form has not
perished. Why, then, should your form perish if theirs remains?’
“H. J. L. Yes; but I still exist who thought those forms, so someone must have
thought of me before I existed if I am like my thoughts. For I thought of them, and so they
came into existence.
“He. ‘Precisely. Someone must have thought of you. That person is God. He created
you by thought, and so, too, you create things by thought What lessons have you learnt?’
“H. J. L. That form, like matter and force, does not perish. Secondly, that, as God
created me by thinking of me, so I create forms by thinking of them.
“He. ‘And what answer can you deduce to your questions from these facts?’
“H. J. L. I suppose all that I see are forms, and being a form myself, they seem as
solid as myself. But why do I seem solid?
“He. ‘How could you seem otherwise? There is no matter here.’
“H. J. L. If I went back to the earth as I am, should I then appear to myself less
substantial?
“He. ‘Would you thereby become matter?’
“H. J. L. No. You mean unless one becomes matter one’s self, one would only seem
form and force, not matter.
“He. ’If a light is placed in the midst of a cloud of smoke, what would you see?’
“H. J. L. Why, of course, a light shining, through perhaps dimly, through smoke.

“He. ‘What is a flame?’
“H.J.L. Force.
“He. ‘Nothing more?’
“H. J. L. It of course has a form.
“He. ‘What is the smoke?’
“H. J. L. Matter and form.
“He. Does this not answer your question?
“H. J. L. You mean I should see the spirit form shining through the material form as a
candle does through smoke or fog?
“He. ‘Yes.’
“H. J. L. Having left matter behind, shall I ultimately also leave behind form?
“As I spoke these words, a terrible stillness seemed to fill the room. All the other boys
leant forward expectantly.
“He. ‘You have asked a question which I at any rate cannot fully answer. But this I
can tell you —that we do leave behind the present form on rising to the next realm. What
happens none of us here knows. We cannot see beyond the wall of fire any more than
mortal eyes can penetrate the veil of death. The Great Messengers may know, but we who
do but come from the highest divisions of this realm know not. You still wish to ask a
question?’
“H. J. L. We who are created by God look to Him for help and consider Him
responsible for our well-being. Are we also responsible for the forms we create?
“Again the silence that could be felt brooded over the room.
“He. ‘You ask wise questions, though so young. What happened to you after you had
spoken awhile with your guide?’
“H. J. L. I told him of the hideous nightmare which had seized me, and how, it sorted
itself into order when I prayed.
“He. ‘Does this not answer your question in part? Did not your thoughts claim you?’
“H. J. L. I bowed my head in shame and sat silent.
“He. ‘But your question means more than that. Speak on.‘
“H. J. L. But my thoughts cannot create fresh thoughts, as I can.
“He. ‘Directly no, but what of indirectly?’
“H. J. L. How can they even indirectly?
“He. ‘In the material world an evil act is done.
Are there none who copy that evil act?’
“H. J. L. That is so, of course. But surely things are different here?
“He. ‘Tell him the answer to that.’
“One of the boys then spoke as follows: —
“Nothing exists on earth which has not its counter-part here. We see this in the trees
and birds and buildings, as also in many other things. But all things here lack crude
matter.”
“H. J. L. ‘But do their evil thoughts here influence others to evil?’
“He. ‘When on earth did you never notice that two men, or even more, each working
independently, even separated from each other by thousands of miles, at the same
moment make the same discovery?’
“H. J. L. ‘Yes, often, but put it down to coincidence.
“He. ‘There is no such thing as coincidence. That word is merely a cloak employed
by men to disguise the fact that they are ignorant of some of the fundamental laws of
God.’
“‘Again, have you never seen how an idea win continue for ages to influence
mankind, though all who knew its origin have passed away?’
“‘Have you never seen how such an idea, though forgotten in its original home, will
yet reappear somewhere else without any known connection having taken place?’

“H. J. L. Then, once created, a thought may go on creating fresh thoughts?
“He. ‘Yes; but only such as relate to it. It could not create a fresh thought on an
entirely different subject.’
“H. J. L. But a man can. Why, then, is it different? He may at one time create a cruel
thought which will go on influencing others to do cruel deeds, yet at the next moment he
may create a thought of kindness which others will develop into much that is good. Why
this difference?
“He. ‘Of what does a man consist?’
“H. J. L. Matter, form, force.
“He. ‘Of what does a thought, once created, consist?’
“H. J. L. I suppose form only.
“He. ‘You are answered.’
“H. J. L. Ah, then it is the presence of what you call force. What is force?
“He. ‘Some say force is God, and some that force and matter are God, and some that
force and matter are the same, and it is this that is God. Can man create either?’
“H. J. L. I suppose he creates only forms.
“He. ‘Are you not, then, answered?’
“H. J. L. I don’t see quite how it answers my original question, namely, why we can
create variant thoughts when our own thoughts cannot.’
“He. ‘God creates you; you create your thought: your thought influences others.’
“Your thought’s action is bounded by the thought that created it; your actions are
bounded by the force which actuates you. God is bounded by nothing.
“H.J.L. I see it all. I cannot think about that of which I have no knowledge. But God
is knowledge.
“He. ‘God is all in all. You have learnt your first lessons. Now go for recreation, all
of you.’




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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28221813 - 03/09/23 06:06 AM (10 months, 15 days ago)

Entertaining the thought that God did not create this world as we perceive. I don't think it's worth it to hold different arguments in effect of division, but if thinking about it to explore further.

We see that things have limitations within their realm, or thought which created them, or at least the kinds of thoughts we make in separation. It is the same as in the Law of Polarity which only works with "like opposites." (I see this is beyond me to elucidate.)

A confusion in the line of thought I'm trying to talk about is the question of can we create like God. Aligned with God I think we do, which is a whole other thing, but no, "we" can't. Meaning the implications that thought is limited to it's form, like a pear tree will not fruit apples.

to be continued


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28223229 - 03/10/23 03:33 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

Anyway, I was trying to consider it around that our thoughts cannot create fresh thoughts as said in the classroom discussion above; they cannot create life then.

If we say that God did not create this world as we perceive then is is easier to agree. But the implication goes further; did we or I manifest this world before me? It would be by an agreement or consensus and the implication is such is the power of our mind.

If working to free ourselves from separation in mind as instructed in the course, then it is glimpsed that everything becomes translucent and of light nature. As said above, the afterworld is also here, not somewhere else.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28223277 - 03/10/23 05:21 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:


A confusion in the line of thought I'm trying to talk about is the question of can we create like God. Aligned with God I think we do, which is a whole other thing, but no, "we" can't. Meaning the implications that thought is limited to it's form, like a pear tree will not fruit apples.







Nice example.
When Luigi picks up a power-ring it's his instincts that get a boost


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28223284 - 03/10/23 05:37 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

Should Rasputin have headed to a Monastery, that is the question.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28223295 - 03/10/23 05:50 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

It can be useful to identify or form principles that are fruitful. In the law that everything is mental, or mind, I started identifying for myself a thought principle. It clarifies the distinction of the split mind, and the proactive. Typical split mind of the ego is I and other, that which is not mind. The power-ring of the thought principle is that thought or mind is our creation and is inclusive, or it is the totality of our creation and experience.

It is impossible here, thus the theme in the invocative of making the impossible, possible. Or it is simply unification of mind which occurs.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28223305 - 03/10/23 05:59 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

AI
Quote:

Rasputin was controversial for several reasons. Firstly, he gained a reputation for his unconventional behavior, which included heavy drinking, womanizing, and disregard for social norms. Secondly, he was accused of using his influence over the royal family for personal gain, leading to rumors of corruption and political manipulation. Additionally, his perceived spiritual abilities and close relationship with the royal family caused concern among some members of the Russian Orthodox Church and other powerful figures in Russian society, who saw him as a threat to traditional values and the stability of the empire. Finally, his murder in 1916 by a group of aristocrats fueled speculation and conspiracy theories about his true intentions and the motives behind his assassination.




I was thinking this morning that I no longer see extended family as much or am not as social because I can no longer drink.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28224653 - 03/11/23 03:34 AM (10 months, 13 days ago)

I know that is symptomatic of all things growing up. It seems often the challenge is not so much in finding a path of mukti (liberation), but bhukti, happiness here, enrichment from which in finding it in sources that are suitable.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28224718 - 03/11/23 06:13 AM (10 months, 13 days ago)

A meditation tells me that everything flows towards corruption even under a fresh coat of paint. The happiness of the corruptors is seen in the loam in the woods. Life reaching for a piece of sun before falling back to earth. Happiness then in both the climb and the fall in the third person might be the pursuit of metaphor in the hopes of a box-office smash. (I climb into my Darth Vader suit)


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28224744 - 03/11/23 06:52 AM (10 months, 13 days ago)

Luke, I am your father. :evil:

Well, the lesson I was learning was that bhukti mukti where successful is named in same wellspring, that which corruptors can only see from afar. The gatherer falls back for a while; the spring remains pristine.


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Offlinetinymadidea
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28228931 - 03/14/23 06:55 AM (10 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Yesterday I would close my eyes and scroll the contents of the course to randomly pick a chapter, and the two times I did it went to the nature of this world related to that Wapnick quote, in essence that it is every loving thought composes the actual reality.




I think this is the way that the course uses language inconsistently and it is important not to take this too literally. Heaven is perfect oneness and so there are no thoughts at all (which are a feature of our separated state), but the idea of that is likely quite terrifying and so Jesus presents it to us in a way that we can understand. It's always worth just keeping that in mind when reading passages like this. They're more like poetry than literal descriptions. Ken discusses this widely as it seems to be a common stumbling block for people (myself included).

Thoughts as we are aware of them are all unreal, including the ego's thoughts and the Holy Spirit's thoughts. In the same way that the world is unreal, anything that we are aware of as separate from us, including thoughts, light and energy are equally unreal.


[Quote]
Ideally we can experience this here, but it goes again to what it is as OBE, NDE, or after passing.
[/Quote]

The Course's goal is that we bring the experience of peace into our awareness now, and awaken to our true reality as soon as we are ready to. The reason we don't awaken is that we don't want to, and are too wrapped up in our investment as separated sons. So the process means bringing any thoughts that are reflective of our bodily identity to the loving presence within our own minds. Over time the fear of love will subside and we will become aware of what we really are.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28229002 - 03/14/23 08:19 AM (10 months, 10 days ago)

Refreshing my memory:

Quote:

2. Every loving thought that the Son of God ever had is eternal. ²The loving thoughts his mind perceives in this world are the world’s only reality. ³They are still perceptions, because he still believes that he is separate. ⁴Yet they are eternal because they are loving. ⁵And being loving they are like the Father, and therefore cannot die. ⁶The real world can actually be perceived. ⁷All that is necessary is a willingness to perceive nothing else. ⁸For if you perceive both good and evil, you are accepting both the false and the true and making no distinction between them. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/152#2:1-8 | T-11.VII.2:1-8)






Edited by syncro (03/14/23 08:47 AM)


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Offlinetinymadidea
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28233089 - 03/17/23 12:55 AM (10 months, 7 days ago)

Q: If you are really ready to give up the ego and the world and ready to give up everything associated with it, whatever that means, even if that means you die or you disappear or whatever, how do you go about doing that? I sit and meditate with the words every day and go to that centered place. There is a part of me that feels like I could just sit there and say the words and never do anything else. But I almost don’t want to do anything else because it takes me away from that. How do you do this?

K: I think the best way for you first is to stop meditating.

Q: I’m not saying meditating. I’m saying just kind of go to the centered place.

Stop that. Don’t do any of that. That’s the worst thing you could do. Okay? What you want to do is you want to stay firmly rooted in the world and whatever it is that turns you on or turns you off in the world—focus on that. And don’t allow yourself to run away from it. Because that’s what you want to bring to that quiet center. You don’t want to go to the quiet center with empty hands. You want to go to that quiet center with all of the angst, all of the anguish, all of the anger, all of the conflict, all of the disappointment, all of the pleasure, all of the expectation, all of the hatred, all of the judgment, all of the conflict, all of the blahblahblah. That’s what you want to bring to the quiet center. That’s what’s missing. And that’s the Alternative. I mean this is very, very simple.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
The Meaning of Sacrifice


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28233112 - 03/17/23 01:55 AM (10 months, 7 days ago)

Interesting.  I've gotta check out some of Ken's stuff...

Still reading Gone West atm.  I love channeled material.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28233880 - 03/17/23 03:06 PM (10 months, 6 days ago)

I'm glad you mentioned Gone West again - I got a bit bored and fell off when they were covering architectures and such related in the worlds, but right after that it's getting good - I peaked ahead too and it looks like some heavy stuff from the officer.


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