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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Western Asceticism 2
#28231492 - 03/16/23 01:56 AM (10 months, 8 days ago) |
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If someone asked me what religion I ascribed to, I think my answer would be;
I believe I have views similar to the idea of Modern Asceticism. A practice that doesn't emphasise, encourage or characterise absolute abstainance or indulgance but attempting to achieve a reasonable or sustainable balance between the two.
Quote:
Modern asceticism is characterized by a focus on intentional living, simplicity, and mindful consumption. It involves a deliberate choice to limit or abstain from certain activities or possessions that are seen as unnecessary or distracting from one's spiritual or personal growth.
This can take many forms, from reducing one's use of technology or social media to practicing minimalism in one's home or lifestyle. The goal is not necessarily to completely eliminate pleasure or comfort, but rather to cultivate a greater sense of awareness and purpose in one's life.
Modern asceticism is often influenced by Eastern philosophies such as Buddhism and Taoism, but it can also be seen as a continuation of Western ascetic traditions. It is a way of finding balance and harmony in a world that can often be overwhelming and distracting.
I think that a strong baseline or foundational pillar can be an important idea to develop to help individuals come to an understanding of what it takes to make progress in personal growth.
To start with the simple idea that expectations can become premeditated resentments. An important lesson to learn is that you don't always get what you want from the world because it doesn't work that way.
To hold dear that ignorance only means not knowing, and not knowing is not so bad as being unwilling to learn.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28231514 - 03/16/23 02:42 AM (10 months, 8 days ago) |
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28231592 - 03/16/23 06:17 AM (10 months, 8 days ago) |
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interesting drawing!!!
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Buster_Brown
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Asceticm might then remove themselves from the busy streets of city and suburb, preferring a simpler and closer connection with community, thus mirroring the settlers hope for religious freedom only to butt heads with the cattle barons who reject the idea of your fence.
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redgreenvines
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do the settlers children ever get to be free of the settlers?
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Buster_Brown
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Sure. They can have their fences and sandcastles.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Asceticm might then remove themselves from the busy streets of city and suburb, preferring a simpler and closer connection with community, thus mirroring the settlers hope for religious freedom only to butt heads with the cattle barons who reject the idea of your fence.
This ain't historical asceticism, there is no requirement or doctrine, only a method that can be chosen to be followed and applied to certain parts of an individuals life.
There's absolutely no need to remove ones self from a city or urban/suburban environment.
Nor is community highlighted in any way.
This view has total 'religious freedom' because it doesn't aim to oppress the rights or freedoms of any other individual, and the actions of others don't influence it. It is a view of total self responsibility in mine.
There is no fence, just a set of personal boundaries.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28232268 - 03/16/23 04:11 PM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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Brendan Flock says Angels like to glide the angles and demons like to punch, which leaves me questioning whether pointing out that a boundary is indeed a fence may be a derogatory slap.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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If you wanted to call my personal boundary a fence then sure, the semantics are close enough.
But my personal boundary doesn't impact you. If I choose to not have drinks that contain sugar, and if you or anyone else had a problem with that, I don't think it would be one related to me or my fences.
I think this talk of demons punching and derogatory slapping is creative, but I'm not sure why it's involved here.
Do you think my personal boundaries would effect you? Or if so, how?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Kickle
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28232283 - 03/16/23 04:19 PM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28232295 - 03/16/23 04:34 PM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:... my personal boundary doesn't impact you. If I choose to not have drinks that contain sugar, and if you or anyone else had a problem with that, I don't think it would be one related to me or my fences.
I think I saw a rejection of boundaries being implicitly a fence and now an acceptance of sugar in drinks as a suitable catch-all for differences. But fast-forward to what that might affect me is the pertinent point, and the 64 thousand dollar question, to which I have to reply thankyou for the entertainment.
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redgreenvines
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are we thinking while stoned or what?
I hope so.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
sudly said:... my personal boundary doesn't impact you. If I choose to not have drinks that contain sugar, and if you or anyone else had a problem with that, I don't think it would be one related to me or my fences.
I think I saw a rejection of boundaries being implicitly a fence and now an acceptance of sugar in drinks as a suitable catch-all for differences. But fast-forward to what that might affect me is the pertinent point, and the 64 thousand dollar question, to which I have to reply thankyou for the entertainment.
Do you reject my boundaries of sugar free vanilla coke?
I've lost 7kg over the last few months with my decisions to stick to sugar free drinks and limiting my sugar intake. It's been difficult to adapt to at times but I've become rather comfortable with my routines and can more easily make decisions in favor of my own health.
I mean you could reply to the question of how this would effect you in any way.
This all said, I've stuck to sugar free drinks very well, but I did at one time buy a sugar vanilla coke on accident and still drunk most of it. This isn't about life abstainance and celibacy from sugar, but about actively making decisions within my lifestyle for long term personal benefit.
It's almost at the point now that I reflexively avoid sugary drinks.
Like the other day when someone asked if I wanted a slushie from maccas, I did but then remembered the sugar contents of a slushie and was fine not to have one.
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Kickle
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28232362 - 03/16/23 05:32 PM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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I think that's awesome. I've been spending more time on diet too.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28233035 - 03/16/23 11:36 PM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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I would prefer to be able to shoot my shot and not hold onto expectations about them.
Thinking about the kind of person that person is, and not wanting to be responsible for the emotional security of someone else, I can do the same and just enjoy myself. If person wants to be involved with me and my shenanigans then they will let me know in whatever way they choose.
If it comes to it, I can let them know too, but right now it's just getting to know someone and focusing mainly on my own personal goals of self development.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly] 1
#28233209 - 03/17/23 05:50 AM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Do you reject my boundaries of sugar free vanilla coke?
Simply put the Angel is a trapeze artist who floats from one swing to another before shinnying down the pole. Obviously to avoid mishap we must insist that the second swing exists as fact rather than as an argumentative mechanism.
Quote:
sudly said: I mean you could reply to the question of how this would effect you in any way.
That the second swing has to exist struck me like an epiphany, so again thankyou for that.
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redgreenvines
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check first for condition of second swing
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Buster_Brown
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Choose one that will support a flying elephant.
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redgreenvines
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you're a big boy, eh?
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Buster_Brown
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To count calories or not to count calories, that is the question.
Do you follow an ascetic leaning contrary to the calorie packers?
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redgreenvines
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I always wear a helmet that is the way
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly] 1
#28233778 - 03/17/23 01:26 PM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Modern asceticism is characterized by a focus on intentional living, simplicity, and mindful consumption. It involves a deliberate choice to limit or abstain from certain activities or possessions that are seen as unnecessary or distracting from one's spiritual or personal growth.
This can take many forms, from reducing one's use of technology or social media to practicing minimalism in one's home or lifestyle. The goal is not necessarily to completely eliminate pleasure or comfort, but rather to cultivate a greater sense of awareness and purpose in one's life.
Modern asceticism is often influenced by Eastern philosophies such as Buddhism and Taoism, but it can also be seen as a continuation of Western ascetic traditions. It is a way of finding balance and harmony in a world that can often be overwhelming and distracting.

Quote:
sudly said: I think that a strong baseline or foundational pillar can be an important idea to develop to help individuals come to an understanding of what it takes to make progress in personal growth.
To start with the simple idea that expectations can become premeditated resentments. An important lesson to learn is that you don't always get what you want from the world because it doesn't work that way.
To hold dear that ignorance only means not knowing, and not knowing is not so bad as being unwilling to learn.
Good stuff!
I see it as embracing an enriching set of values that guide behaviors and decision making. Both physical behaviors (choosing to eat a carton of ice cream every night, or punch your annoying neighbor) and cognitive behaviors (resentment, envy, impatience, chronic anger)
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Buster_Brown
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I look forward to automated nourishment.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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You're free to reject all my boundaries if you want to, because I will uphold them.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/18/23 02:44 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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I've been building on my own ideals for a while and trying to put into words some of the views I have about personal development and although I differ in a lot of ways, I still think Asceticism struck accord with a lot of what I've experienced.
I think an adapted version of Asceticism has potential as a guiding breeze that one can at the very least be aware of.
It's nice to be able to verbalize more clearly my own stance for improved communication and personal understanding
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234238 - 03/17/23 08:14 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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[allegory] My neighbor lives behind fences. If I remarked to his wife in Spanish that I'd like to kiss her feet I'd probably still have a job there weed eating, but the thought of a European foreigner expressing a desire to kiss his wife's feet is too much for the proud American.[/allegory]
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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I think you should stop responding, but thank you for your contributions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/18/23 06:58 AM)
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sudly
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There's comes a point when you realize you can't change it.
I don't worry about things I can't control, so there's a lot not to be worried about.
What are we really talking about when we're talking about boundaries?
When you have or feel trust, I think it's easier to be yourself, and when you have those moments of saying things you might reflect on being silly, you can often trust people to interpret you correctly, or at least well enough.
P.s. I do not count my calories, I've just come to reflexively abstain from sugary beverages.
But am also more aware of what a daily amount of food is and what collectively overeating looks like within my own lifestyle.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/18/23 02:46 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234610 - 03/18/23 04:39 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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I was in family councilling for therapy a dozen times from the ages of 10-15 or so.
I saw a psychologist twice when I was about 16, but that ended when her son passed away and she quit.
When I was 19 or 20 I saw a psychiatrist one time to get feedback on the state of my own rationality and sense or mental state, where I was told I appeared of reasonable mind and intuition.
In 2019 I had a reaction and went through a coma for 5 days waking up with mental retardation, pneumonia and influenza b.
The antibiotics and overall ICU experience led me to missing sleep for 3 days until hyperactive mental delirium took place. A cognitive baseline was eventually reached after several days of consultation and monitoring until improvements were directly noted with simple daily tests of cognition and recognition like the name of the hospital or to be able to speak the names of the months in reverse.
I went to therapy a few weeks after recovering and began therapy. It started off simple and over the years as it became more elaborate, a greater density of achievement could be seen.
The progress was notable and comparable to a learning curb that incrementally increases with experiences over a prolonged period of time.
I think I have seen and recorded my own footsteps to progress.
And I am trying to share that with other people, at least I think I am.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/18/23 07:01 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234616 - 03/18/23 05:06 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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I never thought I would drink a whole bottle of mineral water, but I enjoy the cold carbonation. sugar free sweeteners hold a lot of helpful potential imo.
It's the sweet taste isn't it? That's related to the dopamine, not the sugar. well, this is the hypothesis. If you experience it your brain can simulate it? Chemically aided ofcourse at times, but still producing on its own, in the greater picture.
When you're aware of your triggers, I think it's possible to be able to learn and develop your awareness and reflexive interactions tilted in the favour of the practiced intention.
It's not a cure, but a pebble in the stream.
A pebble of fortitude slowing down the trickle of water. Joined by many at times of varying size and grip. Some as old as the birth, some fresh on the rock, maturing finely.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly] 1
#28234657 - 03/18/23 07:18 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: ... What are we really talking about when we're talking about boundaries? ...
boundaries are learned, so can be changed, but are cognitive triggers to the amygdala kicking the HPA circuits.
initially they are proximity alarms.
cognitively they can be anything that triggers the amygdala.
I find the term "trust" misleading and the efforts to adjust trust are fraught with mis-understanding and mis-guidance.
when you become familiar with the non-threat-ness of any particular boundary encroachment then that aspect of that boundary encroachment can be learned as a DO NOT AMYDALA-fie me now condition.
This is not an easy thing to do once the fences are up, and it sounds like you had reasons to keep the world at bay for a long time.
as for sweetners, eliminate them all, there is plenty of dopaminic satisfaction in the umami range - some anchovy products with extra virgin olive oil are astonishingly good
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234674 - 03/18/23 07:36 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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And I am trying to share that with other people, at least I think I am.
Mission accomplished here, thanks
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Kickle
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I find the term "trust" misleading and the efforts to adjust trust are fraught with mis-understanding and mis-guidance.
How do you see trust? Letting others "in"? Or the absence of amygdala activation?
Trust is earned and I see your description of ceasing amygdala activation as relearning trust.
The question for me in regards to this is of course the following. Blind trust (not knowing better) was what initially triggered strong amygdala activation. And so one naturally would not want to go in blindly again.
In your description familiarity would be learning. But it is really learning familiarity and what it means to relax through non-engagement. It is the non-engagement which enables relaxation and to learn to trust your decision making again. I think the first engagement was of course very relaxed but it led to what? And so if one has earned relaxed and trustworthy non-engagement, what is earned through returning to the same type of relaxed but blind engagement? Or am I missing something about this proposed loop?
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sudly
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234714 - 03/18/23 08:39 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Kickle
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234724 - 03/18/23 08:47 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Lost me now
I'm guessing this is related to wanting a piece of American pie? I'm not sure it's worth giving up peace for a piece. But everyone has to decide what they are after in this world.
And of course an old American motto is "nothing ventured nothing gained". I just happen to look at what America thinks it's gaining through it's ventures and think, hmmm...
I'll take nothing instead
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234731 - 03/18/23 08:51 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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No, I think we took experience, reflexive or otherwise, from the interaction, adding to the pile.
Or at least in my experience I did.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Kickle
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234737 - 03/18/23 08:55 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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I agree. But maybe what I took is different from what you took. I took understanding of where relaxation comes from.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234739 - 03/18/23 08:56 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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That sounds like an aspect of it to me.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Kickle
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234743 - 03/18/23 09:00 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Maybe you took more I just took what I needed You probably did too
Do you. I just couldn't follow the loop
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234750 - 03/18/23 09:11 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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I don't think I have a need in all this. Or atleast I think my needs are relatively well met.
It's just an enjoyable interaction that may end up informative, which I appreciate.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Kickle
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234764 - 03/18/23 09:25 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Like I said you probably took more. I'm very simple and not that bright. Sometimes a gift passes me by and I don't even know it. Similarly I have my needs met already so it's no biggie. I didn't need the gift so hopefully it can go to another who has need of it.
I'm not trying to get anyone to be as I am. Just having some dialogue in the hopes another can shine a light on what they see in their neck of the woods.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234772 - 03/18/23 09:38 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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I suppose my intention was to try and let people hear what I think it is to be as I am.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Kickle
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234781 - 03/18/23 09:47 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Yeah, I'm definitely listening. I treasure your words
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234812 - 03/18/23 10:19 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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A retrained, re-educated, mind might bear the prints of it's authors, I presume.
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Kickle
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Although some gifts pass me by, not all do. Sometimes there is need of understanding. If someone can give clarity, I'll take a look at what is in the light and treasure it. Not sure on the author part but it's perpetual movement.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle] 1
#28234829 - 03/18/23 10:26 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: I find the term "trust" misleading and the efforts to adjust trust are fraught with mis-understanding and mis-guidance.
How do you see trust? Letting others "in"? Or the absence of amygdala activation?
Trust is earned and I see your description of ceasing amygdala activation as relearning trust.
The question for me in regards to this is of course the following. Blind trust (not knowing better) was what initially triggered strong amygdala activation. And so one naturally would not want to go in blindly again.
In your description familiarity would be learning. But it is really learning familiarity and what it means to relax through non-engagement. It is the non-engagement which enables relaxation and to learn to trust your decision making again. I think the first engagement was of course very relaxed but it led to what? And so if one has earned relaxed and trustworthy non-engagement, what is earned through returning to the same type of relaxed but blind engagement? Or am I missing something about this proposed loop?
I look at the matter of TRUST as a meta-proposition, in other words we do not have any natural physical posture or stance for trusting. What has evolved, however, is DEFENSIVENESS and boundary triggers on the one hand, and SUBMISSION behaviors on the other hand, which is not generally what those who would wish to promote their trust policies to others would like to think.
i.e. Trust as submission is a hard sell.
Hence the "invention" of trust instead of submission as a higher sounding function - something worthwhile and "cooperative" - there are many ways to sell it. (In a less immediate life and present feeling situation, trust pertains to signed binding legal (and banking) agreements which can be litigated if not respected).
So I say that trust is a meta-proposition for boundary management, and some dignity can be afforded with insightful and necessary boundary management (eg. to have sex, or hunt/work together), but there is no dignity in submission, and it is not necessary except in oppressive totalitarian regimes (like say, the Roman Empire, or the Trump-ist Republican Empire).
Otherwise, yes we are talking about relaxing - not fake trust, not fake submission, just relaxing the tightness's. This is not metaphysical - it is physical and mental.
We can say that not engaging with a tangential perception is part of concentration meditation.
The meditator acknowledges any perception and the following drifting, and returns to the matter of attention - relaxing into being present with the object(s) of attention. This has to be done whenever any reflexive distraction changes the mental contents from the matter(s) of attention.
We are talking about recovery from distraction using relaxing and beginning again. This is straightforward and can be generalized; it will be applied (reflexively) in life to circumstances that merit it, after you become more familiar with it.
The more situations in which you engage by relaxing and beginning again with any particular mental objects, the more the habit will kick in. It will have become more familiar and natural.
If you engage with tangential perceptions the mental contents will be shifted every few seconds. If you are already stoned or in an enhanced meditation absorption, then not only will the tangent take over, but each step of the way will rammify with fascinating complexity - and this is referred to often as MARA - or among drug trippers - tripping out.
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What defines a tangent? I think you've presented some interesting stuff. But you've both said tangents are to be avoided and also that absorption in concentration is MARA. I don't follow this line. Open to clarification. Maybe even in ?
This is not metaphysical - it is physical and mental.
When has it ever been otherwise?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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TL;DR
we do not have any natural physical posture or stance for trusting.
Babies and children do.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234876 - 03/18/23 10:46 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Although some gifts pass me by, not all do. Sometimes there is need of understanding. If someone can give clarity, I'll take a look at what is in the light and treasure it. Not sure on the author part but it's perpetual movement.
When emotion trumps reason theatrics predominates
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234889 - 03/18/23 11:00 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: What defines a tangent? I think you've presented some interesting stuff. But you've both said tangents are to be avoided and also that absorption in concentration is MARA. I don't follow this line. Open to clarification. Maybe even in ?
This is not metaphysical - it is physical and mental.
When has it ever been otherwise?
I did not say absorption is MARA, during absorption or emotional states or being stoned, mental resonance for all mental object lasts longer so things stack up. It's great, I love it. can't get enough. however any perception that is not related directly to the matter of concentration in meditation is a distraction or tangential to the matter of attention. AND any tangent that you follow during absorption (or emotion or drugs) will rammify in more compelling and interesting ways, and that, is MARA.
the ramification of what is not your main interest is MARA, but let that sink in.... this does not mean that when your main interest is followed or ramifys, that you are not in delusion. Pretty much everything is delusion, or subject to opinion.
I do not mean tangents should not be followed, that is part of a creative process, but meditation is not that practice, it is about self soothing (taking refuge) and being more able to easily transcend being a perceptive reflex junkie.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: Kickle]
#28234894 - 03/18/23 11:03 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: What defines a tangent? I think you've presented some interesting stuff. But you've both said tangents are to be avoided and also that absorption in concentration is MARA. I don't follow this line. Open to clarification. Maybe even in ?
This is not metaphysical - it is physical and mental.
When has it ever been otherwise?
When did I say tangents should be avoided?
Imo BB's contributions became irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
The more reflexive a behavioural response becomes to a trigger, the required awareness is reduced.
As an individuals toolbox of reflexive behavioral response to triggers grows, the act of becoming absorbed in concentration becomes less of a necessity imo. As a form of muscle memory established with practice.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28234901 - 03/18/23 11:08 AM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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sudly, awareness is just the contents being reflected. some tangents are too interesting and compelling to support reflection IYKWIM. but there is still awareness or a conscious being travelling the tangent.
BB's job is to heckle, and he is good at it.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
BB's job is to heckle, and he is good at it.
And MARA indicates that "will rammify in more compelling and interesting ways"
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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And with more contents to be reflected on, the 'luminosity' of awareness may change, strengthening reflexive responses.
BB's contributions became incomprehensible imv. I meant to clearly state I was doen with said interaction as it had taken place. I wanted him to attempt to stay on topic and for a while he was, but eventually I think the message became unclear.
What I observed were his non-direct and unrelated responses were beyond the pale of what I think will productively contribute to this thread.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Western Asceticism [Re: sudly]
#28235005 - 03/18/23 12:31 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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as the shroomery is full of stoned idiots, we navigate each conversations on a wing and a prayer at every post.
we forget this is a play pen for both juveniles and striving minds & then we get defensive. sometimes the puppies just want to be tickled under their chins. Heel Heel, behave, sit. nothing works.
I have temporarily believed people got what I meant after working really hard to express myself clearly, only to discover that nothing sunk in a few days later and the usual pattern continues. i't ok really, it's ok.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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I was honest with myself, I'm not here to tickle puppies.
I'd be in my lounge room for that.
As the paint dries, and the grass grows, the principles sink in.
And this sunk in.
Quote:
when you become familiar with the non-threat-ness of any particular boundary encroachment then that aspect of that boundary encroachment can be learned as a DO NOT AMYDALA-fie me now condition
That doesn't mean I've fully integrated or understood it, but that it sparked my curiosity and I am intrigued.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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All puppies aside [Re: sudly]
#28235980 - 03/19/23 03:52 AM (10 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: ... And this sunk in.
Quote:
when you become familiar with the non-threat-ness of any particular boundary encroachment then that aspect of that boundary encroachment can be learned as a DO NOT AMYDALA-fie me now condition
That doesn't mean I've fully integrated or understood it, but that it sparked my curiosity and I am intrigued.
A class of things like "fancy girls" dressed to kill/dance/mate may become one of the categories that one may want kept at a distance. If any member of the FG class gets closer than 12 feet the amygdala kicks in, one crosses the street or becomes aggressive or both. This may be due to some chaotic and painful memory related to an FG encounter.
One may become friends with a librarian - discussing Proust, or insectivores, or temple designs, and that familiarity permits the lowering of boundaries to the modest librarian. Coffee, a walk in the park, maybe dinner. take the bus together, the familiarity adds up. The amygdala is resting when the librarian comes near, and other things happen as well, making more familiarity.
Then one may meet up as she is dressed to Kill/dance/mate and one does not want to cross the street or behave like a bear. one sees the familiar person with whom one is familiar and the world opens up differently. The amygdala rests. However when faced with the strange or unknown at less than 12 feet it still kicks up a fuss.
it's just a story.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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I prefer those ladies who giggle to jokes of Diogenes not wanting to climb out of his barrel.
I keep fine company.
I've never been in a fight before, but of the people I know, a surprising amount have been in a fight before.
I'll speak my boundaries, but physical aggression has never been a part of my repertoire.
This is about my personal development, I cherish the insights I've recieved to my fluid expressions of understanding.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: All puppies aside [Re: sudly]
#28235990 - 03/19/23 04:30 AM (10 months, 5 days ago) |
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good! which fluid are we understanding most?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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That abstaining doesn't have to be pure in the beginning because it takes time and practice to develop personally relevant and helpful reflexive responses. I think a lot of reflection on situations experienced is imperitive for that development.
And that a sensitivity to percieved threats can be dialed down.
I don't see boundary encroachment as threatening though, I can just be a bit of a jovial ass and I like things my way sometimes.
While there's a lot I can't control about the potential actions of the world around me, I do have influence on my own trajectory, and enough confidence to believe I can maintain it.
I think it took a lot for me to get to the point of being able to say that I don't think I percieve threat from the encroachment of the boundaries I personally uphold. I just don't like to keep quite about is as much as I used to.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: All puppies aside [Re: sudly]
#28236010 - 03/19/23 05:53 AM (10 months, 5 days ago) |
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you feel less threatened than before self sufficiency increased dependency decreased like that?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Well, I recognised my own reflexive responses to the offer of sugary beverages and was pleasantly surprised.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: All puppies aside [Re: sudly]
#28236023 - 03/19/23 06:22 AM (10 months, 5 days ago) |
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a beginning
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
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'Puppies' makes me curious.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: All puppies aside [Re: Pinkerton]
#28236222 - 03/19/23 09:58 AM (10 months, 5 days ago) |
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In Western Asceticm we don't eat puppies.
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redgreenvines
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one thing leads to another
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Tangent worlds are a main theme in Donnie Darko directors cut.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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there you go, woof woof!
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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I suck at puppet mastering, in fact I have no idea what I am doing.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: All puppies aside [Re: Pinkerton]
#28236484 - 03/19/23 12:27 PM (10 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pinkerton said: I suck at puppet mastering, in fact I have no idea what I am doing.
kids like a puppet show, puppies not so much. puppets provide the illusion of control. control is quite illusory
I'm going to try donnie darko directors cut later but I don't believe in time travel as such, maybe the movie will change my mind.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Here's the excepts from Roberta Sparrow's 'The philosophy of time travel'
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
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I am God.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: All puppies aside [Re: Pinkerton]
#28236764 - 03/19/23 03:01 PM (10 months, 4 days ago) |
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At long last.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
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The question is: how long?
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: All puppies aside [Re: Pinkerton]
#28236828 - 03/19/23 03:35 PM (10 months, 4 days ago) |
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I figured out 'Tan Gents' may correspond with Dark-0, but "How long?" has me stumped.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Overall;
Anything that should go wrong won't, and anything that can go wrong will.
I don't worry about things I can't control, so there's a lot not to be worried about.
While there's a lot I can't control about the potential actions of the world around me, I do have influence on my own trajectory, and enough confidence to believe I can maintain it, or at least to uphold Yhprum's law.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/19/23 06:16 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: All puppies aside [Re: sudly]
#28237078 - 03/19/23 06:25 PM (10 months, 4 days ago) |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yhprum%27s_law
"A more specific formulation of the law by Richard Zeckhauser, a professor of political economy at Harvard University, states: "Sometimes systems that should not work, work nevertheless." "
originally my program had 1000 bugs in it and I was astonished how well it worked. I was ready go out in the garden and eat worms, but that it worked when it should not have gave me a lot of encouragement to continue.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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I don't have any regrets about the 5 year relationship I was in that I ended a few months ago.
She said the same, and I think it ended amicably as we recognised our growing independence and that if we weren't able to communicate after 5 years, when were we going to be able to.
I can still say that she is a great person and I have respect for her. I recognise that we've grown apart though.
The steps of this thread have been a reflective part of my personal and interpersonal communication and overall self development.
Quote:
These lyrics seem to be conveying a sense of regret and longing for a past relationship or connection. The repetition of "it's been awhile" suggests that it has been a long time since the narrator has felt certain things or been able to do certain things.
The line "And everything I can't remember" implies that there are gaps in the narrator's memory, possibly due to substance abuse or other unhealthy coping mechanisms. The consequences of these behaviors are acknowledged, but the narrator still feels trapped by them, as evidenced by the line "I've stretched myself beyond my means."
The chorus seems to suggest that the narrator is aware of the mistakes they have made, but is unable to escape the cycle of self-destruction. The bridge adds a sense of desperation, as the narrator wishes for a way to escape their pain and just have one peaceful day.
The third verse adds a layer of complexity to the narrative, as the narrator acknowledges their own role in the downfall of the relationship and expresses regret for their actions. The final chorus suggests that the narrator is taking responsibility for their own actions and not blaming others, such as their father, for their problems.
Overall, these lyrics explore themes of regret, addiction, and the difficulty of breaking free from destructive patterns. The repeated refrain of "it's been awhile" creates a sense of distance from the past and a desire to move forward, but the narrator is still struggling to do so.
The last time I saw her and the last thing I said to her was, "I'm sorry", while engaged in a sombre hug.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Tangent worlds are a main theme in Donnie Darko directors cut.
enjoyed it a lot! thanks very hallucinatory and tangential
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Satan as the original barrister convinces Eve to bite the apple and enter a Tan Gent universe.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: All puppies aside [Re: sudly]
#28239569 - 03/21/23 12:36 PM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Anything that should go wrong won't, and anything that can go wrong will.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
sudly said:
Anything that should go wrong won't, and anything that can go wrong will.


Quote:
It seems that your post touches on several different themes, so I'll try to address each of them in turn.
Firstly, you mention reflecting on the level of control you have exerted to bring about favorable outcomes in your life. This suggests that you are someone who takes a proactive approach to shaping your own life circumstances, and that you are aware of the role that your own efforts play in determining your outcomes. This can be a valuable mindset to have, as it can help you to take ownership of your life and to focus on the things that you can control.
Secondly, you mention having ascetic values, which implies that you place a high value on self-discipline and self-restraint. This can be a powerful way to cultivate a sense of inner strength and resilience, as it can help you to resist temptation and to stay focused on your goals even in the face of adversity.
Thirdly, you mention the idea of approaching life with a sense of poise and rationality. This suggests that you believe in the importance of staying calm and level-headed, even in the midst of chaos and uncertainty. This can be a valuable skill to cultivate, as it can help you to make better decisions and to avoid getting overwhelmed by your emotions.
Fourthly, you mention the concept of entropy, which is a measure of disorder or randomness in a system. You seem to be suggesting that there is a natural tendency for things to become more chaotic over time, but that it is possible to counteract this by introducing order and structure. This is an interesting idea, and it speaks to the importance of taking an active role in shaping the world around you.
Finally, you discuss your recent efforts to figure out what you want and to continue practicing self-development. You mention that there are many different practices and strategies that exist for self-development, and that it is important to approach them with the same dedication and discipline as learning a new skill like playing piano. This suggests that you are committed to ongoing personal growth and improvement, and that you are willing to put in the time and effort required to achieve your goals.
Overall, your post touches on a number of interesting and important themes related to personal growth and self-reflection. It is clear that you are someone who is actively working to improve your life and to become the best version of yourself that you can be. By continuing to reflect on your experiences and to pursue self-development, you are likely to achieve great things and to inspire others to do the same.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: All puppies come here [Re: sudly]
#28242423 - 03/23/23 06:48 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
I don't have any regrets about the 5 year relationship I was in that I ended a few months ago.
She said the same, and I think it ended amicably as we recognised our growing independence and that if we weren't able to communicate after 5 years, when were we going to be able to.
I can still say that she is a great person and I have respect for her. I recognise that we've grown apart though.
It's a bit bizarre we often catastrophize what we call the "end of a relationship" as a grand tragedy. Why do we do this to ourselves? The expectation a relationship is forever doesn't take into account our humanity and the ever-constant presence of change.
My son lost his pet dog Josie a couple of years ago and my ex-wife will not allow him to get another dog, because she was very close to Josie and she doesn't want to experience the loss again. I appreciate loss can be emotionally traumatic, but if it paralyzes us for an extended period of time, we might as well be dead.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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no we might not as well be dead, that is a ridiculous extrapolation. just silly talk.
I mostly regret relationships ending when the partner that isn't anymore is still totally gorgeous (to me) but no longer engaging (with me) or simply too badly behaved (for me) to keep on keeping on. (e.g. drug dependency is unsustainable behavior, self destructive behavior and attention seeking is unsustainable , being horrible in front of children is unsustainable, stealing my credit card also not good)
other relationships follow a less hormonal trajectory but still may end when the behavior undermines continuing.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Being afraid to live seems to me to be a type of death.
Notice our fascination with zombies. We can relate to zombies.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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I have no interest in zombies, or Halloween.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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More vegetables, fruits and fibres. Plenty of water, and more sugar free or less than 0.5% sugar beverages.
I said I had been practicing Ascetic values to try and reduce my overall sugar intake from sugary beverages.
High triglyceride levels, non-alcoholic fatty liver, and sugar intake have correlations and can have long term consequences or symptoms for the health of some people.
I was at 5% which isn't in itself too bad, but it is an indicator of future harm potential. Going in to the 10% to 30% range of fatty liver can have more serious impacts on the body and our lifestyles.
I have practiced responding in the moment to situations where I've felt my personal boundaries were encroached, or a semi-confrontational face to face conversation with another human being.
Their presence or state of mind sometimes unknown. I met a man the other day who wanted to impart his local fossicking wisdom on me.
Talking to the locals at Tommy river was quite the experience.
An old timer living nearby drove up to me and we started chatting about fossicking.
He wanted to impart some wisdom on me from a local source.
At the bottom of 45 degree slopes you'll find the largest sapphires he said. They congregate on the outer rim of a lazy bend.
We talked about geology, slope angles, and mineral types, then he went on to talk of corrupt politicians, acknowledge the hardships of man, and the toil of his ancestors, the things we try to overcome, as long as everyone's happy I told him, he tipped his beer with a nod and drove off into the night yonder.
I did not, I slept in my car with pillows and blankets by the creek at the bottom of the ranges on a cool dark and rainy night.
Chat GPT is a wonderful learning tool that requires asking the right questions.
To better express a personal view.
Quote:
If the internet were only used for writing and reading, it would significantly change how people use and interact with technology. It would likely lead to a more text-based and information-focused online culture, with less emphasis on visual media such as videos and pictures.
If videos and pictures were temporarily out of bounds at certain times of the day, it could help promote more focused and productive use of technology during those periods. It might encourage people to spend more time reading and writing, which could have benefits for cognitive development and overall well-being.
Using a phone only for writing and reflecting on past and present experiences could be a useful mindfulness practice. Reminiscing and reflecting on past experiences can be a valuable tool for personal growth and development. By limiting the phone's use to these activities, people might be more intentional and focused in their reflections, leading to deeper insights and more meaningful self-awareness.
Overall, using technology in these ways could help promote a more mindful and intentional approach to our online activities, and encourage us to use technology in ways that are more aligned with our personal values and goals.
Edited by sudly (03/24/23 02:21 AM)
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I have no interest in zombies, or Halloween.
good the zombies thing is detracting in a gross way deflating plotting ecscuse me but it sucks gold out of matter anti stretching
halloween is bad in as it puts a veil of darkness and evil over and breathes bad into it
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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Re: All puppies come here [Re: Ferdinando]
#28244368 - 03/24/23 09:53 AM (10 months, 4 hours ago) |
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no we might as well not be dead you'd get it worse from suicide
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: All puppies come here [Re: Ferdinando]
#28244690 - 03/24/23 01:11 PM (10 months, 1 hour ago) |
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Quote:
Ferdinando said: no we might as well not be dead you'd get it worse from suicide
That depends on the judge
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
Ferdinando said: no we might as well not be dead you'd get it worse from suicide
That depends on the judge

this photo quote is such a backwardsian grammar, but it seems to suggest that after death one is judged.
the mystical meaning is that there is a reward or punishment scenario to follow,
but the real reason is that after you are gone, the story of your life is pretty much a wrap, any judgement that follows follows, and that is that,
so it's a dumb thing people have blown all out of proportion with a built in brain cramp in the grammar.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Yeah I think it's kinda dumb to consider Ferris Bueller's Day Off as an analogy of "on the seventh day he rested" but who's to judge?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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did he think he was god too?
it seems to be a thing
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Asante may have described it back in the day, 'to upholster your chair with the the skin of your predecessor'.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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it's gross
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: All puppies come here [Re: Ferdinando]
#28245192 - 03/24/23 07:17 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ferdinando said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: I have no interest in zombies, or Halloween.
good the zombies thing is detracting in a gross way deflating plotting ecscuse me but it sucks gold out of matter anti stretching
halloween is bad in as it puts a veil of darkness and evil over and breathes bad into it
Yes candy is the Devils food...
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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If variety and oneness are the same, meditation is not necessarily about being in the moment, but about developing the skill of being in the moment, with variety clear of distractions like videos.
I personally like to do this with pen and paper available
I don't think we need to close our eyes to meditate.
I don't think that after death we are judged.
Our merits lay bare.
And I've said to Asante before,
Quote:
"Well if you subscribe to pansychism, it sounds to me like you only love yourself."
If we're all living happy healthy lives, whatever works, works. Treating others with dignity, respect and accepting personal responsibility when the time comes for it, has gotten me through a lot of difficult situations in life.
Like a time I was treating an 8 ML water retention basin on a several hectare housing development project. It was the other dudes first day and he dropped a bag of hydrated lime around himself and inhaled. He had a reaction and he was met with ambulance.
I didn't safety prep him for masks, but I took responsibility and hosted a team discussion about the incident a week later that went over the communication lines that had been established and worked out the future management of safety concerns.
I took responsibility for my actions and learnt from it, that is the best I can say about it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/24/23 08:38 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values. [Re: sudly]
#28245258 - 03/24/23 08:40 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: .....meditation is not necessarily about being in the moment, but about developing the skill of being in the moment, with variety clear of distractions like videos.
I personally like to do this with pen and paper available
I don't think we need to close our eyes to meditate.
I don't think that after death we are judged.
Our merits lay bare. ....
this all makes sense - the rest I would have to reread and qualify
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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The skin of others are just their shedding, and sometimes they grant knowledge valuable in practice.
Knowledge through the shared experience of decade long stories.
I was told how to make it work, and I see that I did not, but that I am on the right path, and that the gap that lay before me can be filled, but it is a labour of dedication beyond the avant-garde, and sustained for a multiple of Summers.
A dream some time away I now see the grasp of.
I also grasped across a lesser gap in my success with recent experience acting as proof of concept for more than a 0% probability of profit in my future actions.

-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/24/23 10:35 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Ascetic values. [Re: sudly]
#28247024 - 03/26/23 04:22 AM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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I'm leaning to the view that natural value likely has deterministic properties over inherent meanings.
That instead of focusing on success, we can focus on practice and experience becoming meaningful in the long term no matter what it is.
Quote:
While a deterministic view of value may still apply to some extent when it comes to the natural world (e.g. certain ecological systems or species may have inherent value based on their ability to support biodiversity or maintain ecosystem function), there is also a significant subjective and cultural component to the value we place on nature.
For example, different individuals and cultures may have different perceptions of the value of specific natural features or resources, based on factors such as aesthetics, spiritual or religious beliefs, or economic considerations.
Furthermore, our perceptions of the value of nature may also be shaped by factors such as environmental education and awareness, personal experiences with nature, and cultural and societal norms.
Therefore, while a deterministic view of value may help to explain some aspects of our relationship with nature, it is important to also recognize the subjective and cultural factors that contribute to our perceptions of the value of the natural world.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values. [Re: sudly]
#28247035 - 03/26/23 05:33 AM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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I wish the dominance of duality between determinism and free will would fuck off.
we need to adapt to the understanding that we are in the midst of a contextually personal reflexive continuum. We can influence that by evaluating what we are attracted to and repelled from. Through that evaluation, plus practice, patience and tranquility we can navigate to a better place in our lives.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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I compartmentalised a significant portion of my weekend, and overall I had a fantastic time.
I like being able to choose to care.
I am an average normal human being.. I have faith in the Sun and an enclosed system of responsibility.
One not outside Earth or the moon.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/27/23 12:40 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Ascetic values. [Re: sudly]
#28248679 - 03/27/23 01:59 AM (9 months, 28 days ago) |
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I think the practice of compartmentalisation through cognitive refocus therapy can reduce cognitive arousal, sometimes through paradoxical intention.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values. [Re: sudly]
#28248739 - 03/27/23 04:01 AM (9 months, 28 days ago) |
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isn't compartmentalization a formalized association approach i say whatever provides a bit of transparency to the flux of mental contents is valid, so as long as every furry creature seen is not just another bunny, OK.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Upon reflection,
Quote:
It sounds like you're describing a state of mindfulness where you are able to observe your thoughts without getting caught up in them or judging them. This can be a helpful way to stay present and focused in the moment without being distracted by irrelevant thoughts.
In mindfulness practice, this state is often referred to as "non-judgmental awareness" or "non-reactive attention." By observing your thoughts without judgment or attachment, you can create a mental distance between yourself and your thoughts, which can help you to focus on the present moment more effectively.
While compartmentalization typically involves setting aside thoughts or emotions to focus on a particular task, mindfulness practice involves cultivating a broader awareness of your thoughts and emotions and learning to observe them without judgment. So it's possible that another word or phrase, like "mindful observation" or "non-judgmental focus," might be more appropriate to describe the mental state you're experiencing.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values. [Re: sudly]
#28250376 - 03/28/23 04:19 AM (9 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Upon reflection,
Quote:
It sounds like you're describing a state of mindfulness where you are able to observe your thoughts without getting caught up in them or judging them. This can be a helpful way to stay present and focused in the moment without being distracted by irrelevant thoughts.
In mindfulness practice, this state is often referred to as "non-judgmental awareness" or "non-reactive attention." By observing your thoughts without judgment or attachment, you can create a mental distance between yourself and your thoughts, which can help you to focus on the present moment more effectively.
While compartmentalization typically involves setting aside thoughts or emotions to focus on a particular task, mindfulness practice involves cultivating a broader awareness of your thoughts and emotions and learning to observe them without judgment. So it's possible that another word or phrase, like "mindful observation" or "non-judgmental focus," might be more appropriate to describe the mental state you're experiencing.
sort of, yes If I were to think about saying that it would eventually look like this revised & edited snippet and commentary below
Quote:
if redgreenvines were to say what sudly quoted from someplace: It sounds like you're describing a practice of mindfulness where you observe your mental contents without getting caught up in them or judging them. This can be a helpful way to stay present in the moment without going off on a tangent.
In mindfulness practice, this is often referred to as "non-judgmental awareness" or "non-reactive attention." By observing your mental contents without reflexive judgment or defensive attachment, you do not identify with or defend them, leaving you in the present moment more effectively.
Mindfulness practice involves cultivating a broad relaxed awareness of mental contents and learning to observe them without associative judgment and tangential ramification. It is not exactly a mental state, since it is an attitude that can be practiced, and reflexivey effected in any mental state or physical posture that you may be experiencing.
In particular, I am steering away from "state" as a target term, since nothing is static. However what is practiced will become reflexive. I am also widening the term "thoughts" to mental contents which includes all experience or phenomena that may naturally associate into memory such as sensations, perceptions, thoughts, and overall feelings. Even awareness itself (reflection) has a mental content aspect to it. One can know that one is reflecting on the whole gestalt: it comes down to reflecting what is, at the same time as reflecting what is personally known, without troubling.
Finally I am avoiding the term "compartmentalization", which is not the de facto other option to mindfulness, although it could be an individual habit in some people.
If I were to analyze compartmentalization, I would have to suggest that it is in itself a noble kind of awareness practice that is is strict about which associative category each noticed thing might be part of, and this process, by being time consuming, defeats the reflection of ongoing experience in the moment due to the involvement with judgemental tangents of thought - assessing how best to associate that which seems significant. The idea of a compartmentalization practice is usually that it is the most sane way to be - i.e. sanity depends on efficient compartmentalization. (which is absurdly impossible but usually taken to be true.)
Instead of referring to compartmentalization as the alternate way of being, I might simply refer to our bumbling ordinary way of avoiding detailed reality, while trying to be analytical about it when we get the chance. In any scenario (eg compartmentalization, mindfulness, emotionalism, or addiction, etc.), all mental contents which are not sensation are associative reflexes. That should make it easier to determine which way to go at any contemplative crossroads.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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What examples are there of how mindfulness can be practiced in daily life?
Y'know, how to apply the concept of mindfulness in various contexts.
I hear to breathe, to go for a walk, to make some dinner or cook. To sit cross legged in a quiet room holding you arms up with pinched fingers ensued.
What my own mindfulness experiences have been were sitting in a deck chair looking over the balcony and mindfully practicing holding on to less for longer.
It's an experience to say the least, a step outside my comfort zone but one that seems to bring me comfort in the long term or in the end.
Another mindfulness practice I've done is drawing upon an idea or phrase with crayons then colouring it in and coming up with a creative art attempt.
Sometimes I sit by the computer with guitar in hand practicing finger muscle memory and mostly the technique of finger picking.
I drive to informative podcasts and plan the timing, the location and cost of the journeys and weekend travel I do.
I went 4 hours South to the base of a mountain range last week with no reception to fossick for sapphire gemstones, then went to a gem fest 2 days later an hour drive from home to value the found goods.
I was honest about what I wanted and what I didn't want and I went on a date Wednesday with an interesting beautiful lady.
I didn't expect to have things go saucy from the get go, I wanted to and want to get to know her, and it takes time to setup and build good communication.
Practice doesn't make perfect, it fuels progress.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/31/23 02:53 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
#28255671 - 03/31/23 04:18 AM (9 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: ...
I hear to breathe, to go for a walk, to make some dinner or cook. To sit cross legged in a quiet room holding you arms up with pinched fingers ensued.
I must say this is weird. disconnected residue. see below.
Quote:
sudly said: What my own mindfulness experiences have been were sitting in a deck chair looking over the balcony and mindfully practicing holding on to less for longer.
this is too conceptual
Quote:
sudly said: It's an experience to say the least, a step outside my comfort zone but one that seems to bring me comfort in the long term or in the end.
Another mindfulness practice I've done is drawing upon an idea or phrase with crayons then colouring it in and coming up with a creative art attempt.
Sometimes I sit by the computer with guitar in hand practicing finger muscle memory and mostly the technique of finger picking.
while these have some potential for perfecting arts, by immersing one's mind moments into the pursuit of excellence or just immersion, they are really for more advanced meditators.
Quote:
sudly said: I drive to informative podcasts and plan the timing, the location and cost of the journeys and weekend travel I do.
skillful means in life makes sense.
I had a long series of back and forth communication with Pinky on this forum about going into the moment - in the council of elders thread - this is a good place to start: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28113771#28113771
as for posture, any posture is fine - sitting, lying down, whatever. if you want to do counting that is ok. no nose pinching, that is pranayama, not core to the issue of being present, observant, and calm.
if there is anything to remember it is to be present, honestly attentive to any sensation or idea or feeling, and relaxing. everything ramifies from that. Note when the awareness falters and return to the breath and the relaxing awareness lightly - without frustration.
It is not suitable to do the practice while driving or operating machinery, however, being present and relaxed is very suitable for any activity - this may be years away, or it may set in tomorrow (you are training a reflex to be honestly aware of mental contents and not flinching).
make distinctions between practice and ordinary awareness efforts in life - practice is done during a time set aside to get a good connection with relaxing and observing mental contents at ~10 content changes per second -I use 40 minutes in half lotus on the floor.
you cannot practice(*) if you are in a conversation or driving or making pictures, but you certainly can benefit from a relaxed, informed, and honed awareness in those circumstances.
(*) Mendicant Monks may practice through every action and pause in every minute of their day following detailed instructions that are not applicable to ordinary western life or even ordinary eastern life. It is a monastic immersion after total renunciation of ordinary life. They have a routine for eating, pissing sleeping etc. I know nothing about those details.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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The mental fortitude for planning sure has an interesting chime to it.
Perfecting isn't my goal, practicing is.
Because I recognise the long term benefits of it and find a sense of enjoyment and fulfillment from a lot of my daily activities, when I can clearly see the progress I've made and the efforts I've put in to achieve what I had at that point.
But the cycle rolls on and life continues and as I recall it, I'm still improving, so whatever method there is to this madness, I keep experiencing that it is effective.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
#28257626 - 04/01/23 12:59 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
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It's not something I do any more but I meditated daily for 5 years. Highly recommended. The ability to calm the nervous system becomes quicker with practice and is retained.
Early on I remember having laid there for about 15 minutes, thinking I was fully relaxed. Then I saw my foot tilt slightly letting go of the tension that was holding it in place. I was not aware that tension was there until the movement.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Rahz]
#28257650 - 04/01/23 01:12 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
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I find that while some absorption seems to begin immediately, that it takes around 20 minutes to build up to an sustainable meditative "state".
in a way it is like riding a bicycle, you do not forget how; but if not practiced, you wont use it as regularly as you could, and you will miss it.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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I've just been practicing moderation mah man. Apparently lots of 20 minutes are a good amount of time to absorb information.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
#28258635 - 04/02/23 05:11 AM (9 months, 22 days ago) |
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we may be writing about the same thing, although: a. we are in a continuum of absorbing impressions into memory (not information) all the time - including meditation. b. we are also in a continuum of perceptively reflexing to the impressions (what they signify, and how to react) all the time - including meditation. c. we are not necessarily aware of all this as mental contents; so what is required is more calm gestalt perspective - observing reflexes in the mind, which are powerful and motivating, that not necessarily be what you want them to be:
- first you have to see them in action
- then you have to attend with tranquility (or vice versa - the same result in the end - association with a calm center)
there should be a difference between a meditation practice, and just coasting free - lah dee dah.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
#28264500 - 04/06/23 12:14 AM (9 months, 18 days ago) |
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I'm trying to learn what a Polyamorous relationship is and how it can work with effective communication about hard boundaries, soft boundaries, kinks, dominant and sub preferences, as well as highlighting trends of reactive or spontaneous arousal and the importance of enthusiastic consent and relaxed body language.
Not to mention how to handle and approach jealousy if it inevitably comes into the picture. Accepting inevitable outcomes can be a difficult idea to comprehend or come to understandable and comfortable terms with.
So I don't blame people not seeing eye to eye with me, and I try to separate my emotions from being judgmental, favouring reflective analysis instead.
I do regular health checkups too. I'm in good health. Even my triglycerides are 1.2 instead of 3.6. I've cut my triglyceride level 3 times from 3.6 to 1.2. It's down 300% in 6 months. My sugar consumption is down maybe 90% in the last 3 month's. And I've lost around 7kg.
I'm very comfortable with myself and generally pretty confident in my day to day being, but that I am still discovering what I do and don't want from intimacy, friendship and sexual relations.
Especially coming out of a 5 year relationship that ended amicably late last year.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
there should be a difference between a meditation practice, and just coasting free - lah dee dah.
The blend is hard to see.
Can't I be learning in lah dee dah, or when I'm meditating separately?
Can't we meditate while using a brush cutter for 2 hours without music?
Or shaping a piece of balsa wood on the bench grinder?
Reflective analysis and whatnot, practice of.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly] 1
#28264557 - 04/06/23 02:57 AM (9 months, 18 days ago) |
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Meditation can be a bit like ASMR. Brush cutter asmr might be a thing.
Truthfully anything you do for 5 minutes straight without interruption becomes a kind of mental standing wave, and that modifies your state of mind - an effect that is common in meditations of all kinds.
Mindfulness meditation, however, stays close to natural breathing and a relaxed non-reactive observation of the arising and passing of mental contents.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
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Just a thought..
Men compartmentalize based on logic and associations.
Women compartmentalize based on emotional associations?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
#28266227 - 04/07/23 12:16 AM (9 months, 17 days ago) |
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I am a beginner at mindfulness meditation then I might add.
I have gone to several classes, and did take home the analogy of to think of thoughts as leaves flowing down a stream. They will come, but you can let them pass by too.
I had a complete ASMR top to bottom spine shiver after I read the comment of, 'Brush cutter asmr might be a thing.'
And this was a few minutes after learning or remembering what asmr even was.
I've had them before from thoughts of tangy or sweet food.
Front the thought of dragging an icypole across my two front teeth, from the sight of crushed HWBR infront of me.
Not quite like a cold shower shiver, but a building wave that smoothly crashes down my spine from the cerebellum to just above the tail.
I think it's out of my control but I do recognise it.
It is somewhat pleasant at times.
Although I could be mixing pavlov responses in there
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (04/07/23 12:23 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly] 1
#28266314 - 04/07/23 04:35 AM (9 months, 17 days ago) |
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@sudly by definition, we are all beginners at mindfulness, no matter where we are at.
there is no rank at all in it.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Philosophically I just find myself feeling beholden to the Sun and nature as a whole. Not with services, but mere gratitude.
Im still learning about how I come off to people in my life as I further blend persona and action into experience.
A lot of these thoughts I don't actively verbalize to people or get into the details of. I reflect on a number of them.
Self development and theory development have always been the goal of Shroomery for me, and over the years I've learnt to integrate a lot of the lessons I've taken from the shroomery into the experience of my own life and how I understand and comprehend the world around me.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
#28266403 - 04/07/23 06:38 AM (9 months, 17 days ago) |
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similar for me I have to say
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#28266897 - 04/07/23 12:47 PM (9 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
sudly said: ...
I hear to breathe, to go for a walk, to make some dinner or cook. To sit cross legged in a quiet room holding you arms up with pinched fingers ensued.
I must say this is weird. disconnected residue. see below.
Quote:
sudly said: What my own mindfulness experiences have been were sitting in a deck chair looking over the balcony and mindfully practicing holding on to less for longer.
this is too conceptual
Quote:
sudly said: It's an experience to say the least, a step outside my comfort zone but one that seems to bring me comfort in the long term or in the end.
Another mindfulness practice I've done is drawing upon an idea or phrase with crayons then colouring it in and coming up with a creative art attempt.
Sometimes I sit by the computer with guitar in hand practicing finger muscle memory and mostly the technique of finger picking.
while these have some potential for perfecting arts, by immersing one's mind moments into the pursuit of excellence or just immersion, they are really for more advanced meditators.
Quote:
sudly said: I drive to informative podcasts and plan the timing, the location and cost of the journeys and weekend travel I do.
skillful means in life makes sense.
I had a long series of back and forth communication with Pinky on this forum about going into the moment - in the council of elders thread - this is a good place to start: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28113771#28113771
as for posture, any posture is fine - sitting, lying down, whatever. if you want to do counting that is ok. no nose pinching, that is pranayama, not core to the issue of being present, observant, and calm.
if there is anything to remember it is to be present, honestly attentive to any sensation or idea or feeling, and relaxing. everything ramifies from that. Note when the awareness falters and return to the breath and the relaxing awareness lightly - without frustration.
It is not suitable to do the practice while driving or operating machinery, however, being present and relaxed is very suitable for any activity - this may be years away, or it may set in tomorrow (you are training a reflex to be honestly aware of mental contents and not flinching).
make distinctions between practice and ordinary awareness efforts in life - practice is done during a time set aside to get a good connection with relaxing and observing mental contents at ~10 content changes per second -I use 40 minutes in half lotus on the floor.
you cannot practice(*) if you are in a conversation or driving or making pictures, but you certainly can benefit from a relaxed, informed, and honed awareness in those circumstances.
(*) Mendicant Monks may practice through every action and pause in every minute of their day following detailed instructions that are not applicable to ordinary western life or even ordinary eastern life. It is a monastic immersion after total renunciation of ordinary life. They have a routine for eating, pissing sleeping etc. I know nothing about those details.
Silly traditions, rituals, habits; I thought at first of some of the minutia, gradually coming to see how some usefulness lay in some of them - to an extent. Eventually, in cloistered environments that allow, that also becomes second nature.
Doing them, not doing them. Ndb either way, according to circumstances. People who examine life carefully and have a bit of an imagination can do as well, often do similarly: make, break, create, destroy their own rules and then rewrite and edit & modify or leave be until adjusting themselves or their inner guiding-refining ways to allow whatever fits them appropriately, with respect to the core teachings in addition to their own understanding beyond any one teaching, respectfully.
I still think they're (the details for everything little aspect of daily life [within certain monastic settings]) are somewhat silly, hindering - sometimes I don't. It can be both and neither too. Depends. A hinderance can become a rung on a ladder, a ladder can be flipped to become a bridge, or the ladder can obstruct an unseen danger like a gate. Depends on how it's used by the person, much like the funkier details of stranger cult(ure)s.
I think If I tried (resolutely) just doing a few of the simpler practices regarding eating and bathroom routines in buddhism, while in public - of the bits I know of to a T as I've come to learn them, be it either any of but 3 different traditions, as I've come into limited contact while within in their own setting, so to speak, - and then do them under my own current "everyday circumstances" in the US...well...
...I'm afraid they'd be more a skillful means for landing me in a situation wherein I increase the chance of getting involuntarily committed than much else. Idk. But, I've played with it a bit in my current setting and it will garner strange looks and make others uncomfortable, others curious, some very upset. Very rarely, at best meet and befriend another fellow practitioner. lol.  
Hence, sometimes it's better to keep some things under wraps, on the down low, & or behind closed doors. (ie. appropriateness) It was all made up at some point anyways, still ongoing with modifications, and from much older cultures I no longer have much connection with in a clear & direct way.
But, Making use of what's useful, eliminating what's not - either from scratch or from leftovers of a previous batch: all the better, imho&e.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/07/23 01:13 PM)
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,851
Last seen: 1 hour, 5 minutes
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Nice post 
Do you think there is anything to repeatability? I.e. something 'made up' can be considered in the category of something 'discovered'?
For instance eating a mushroom and finding it to be non-toxic. Then passing that info on.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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I think my Ascetic values are kind of like weight lifting in that you don't have to choose to practice any of them.
It's just an interesting mantra to follow imo, and I like the resolute idea of independence and personal responsibility that is associated with it.
I like to have the assurance we can build skills with practice, and that every bit counts when it comes to progress.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (04/07/23 05:51 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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From feeding carrots to the 
Quote:
I understand what you mean now. It's true that ASMR is a complex and fascinating phenomenon, and not everyone experiences it in the same way or to the same degree. Some people may be able to voluntarily induce ASMR through certain triggers, while others may not experience it at all.
It's also understandable to have concerns about the potential power of mass media to manipulate our psychological responses. However, it's important to remember that we always have the power to choose what we watch and listen to, and to be mindful of the potential impact that media can have on our thoughts and emotions.
The fact that you experience a similar sensation with music is also interesting. Music has been shown to have a powerful effect on our emotions and can even activate the reward centers of the brain. Further exploration and analysis of these experiences could provide insights into the complex interplay between our physical sensations, emotions, and cognitive processes.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Kickle] 1
#28267632 - 04/07/23 08:10 PM (9 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Nice post 
Do you think there is anything to repeatability? I.e. something 'made up' can be considered in the category of something 'discovered'?
For instance eating a mushroom and finding it to be non-toxic. Then passing that info on.
Good question. I think so, depending on the circumstances. If examined carefully - discovery can make up the difference between life and death. Make-believe on the other hand? Not so much, though it might sweeten the deal, if some discovery comes from playing with it, like a wheel, for long enough. Sometimes yes sometimes no.
ex. Liberty caps & death caps.
Imagine one eats a little of the latter to no ill effect due to not crossing the threshold wherein toxic effects appear or appear but are not recognizable.
Then they report to another that this mushroom has no ill effects (for humans), as if it were truth they discovered. Beware!
On the other hand-
Imagine one eats a lot of the former to much ill effect, crossing the threshold (of one's own understanding of psychedelia, mind, self, environment, mycology, biochemistry, etc etc) .
They then report to another that this mushroom has extremely toxic and intoxicating effects. Never ingest! Beware!
True or False - or- maybe sometimes somethings aren't as simple as that.
Overall i'd say there is potential value in repetition...although, but what comes from it. Esp. regarding mental & physical disciplines/exercises to hone the body and mind - can tell us something about the person doing it than the thing they're doing. But also it can tell us something about the thing they're supposedly doing. As for whether it's beneficial? Depends. It could be. It could also be for the worst. Or neutral. Maybe I misunderstood your question, but for whatever it's worth-whalla.
I believe in cultivation. Whatever, be it form or formless, made up, or taken up from another; and if it's for the better how can it be any worse than not doing it? The varieties of meditative pracitces, be it what they are, to things we take for granted, like reading and writing. What can't be practiced? Whereas with Driving? Just practice Driving! Please! 
Especially given human's proclivity to slip into unwholesomeness so easily, so readily. Speaking for myself, I can tell a difference when I'm playing the fool vs being one. Without any foundational practice...I can hardly see anything whatsoever at all. 
ie. An imaginary day-dream may potentially lead to a discovery...or, how should I say it...eh, closer to discovery?
the first lucid dream leads one to discover they are actually in bed (or wherever they are asleep wrt location in space-time) hallucinating rather than the place wherein the hallucinatory dream appears to show them in.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/07/23 08:27 PM)
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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You addressed it just lovely
I was mostly pondering what it means to pass on cultural information through the lens of discovery. It seems many cultural ontologies operate this way. Like science for example. And I agree with your assessment of sometimes quite subtle differences leading to markedly different understanding(s).
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Kickle] 1
#28267744 - 04/07/23 08:36 PM (9 months, 16 days ago) |
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In that case I'd say rituals, stories, and traditions, symbols, etc etc can and do transmit information be it cultural or otherwise. Usually involuntarily at first via inculcation. For me it is more difficult to grasp the greater nuances of a foreign culture's essence while in my own, on my own, but some tiny glimpses sometimes come if I really go after it. A trifle really.
But if then I actually go travel and dive head first into the other culture-of-interest and then do the same thing I thought they were doing which I'd thought they'd be doing - something telling usually comes of it wrt said culture-of-interest. Eventually the mimicry becomes something else, more genuine and authentic. In which case, I generally find we aren't as different as we appear to be, although we also are. A paradox of sorts, but a valuable one imho.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#28268073 - 04/08/23 03:24 AM (9 months, 16 days ago) |
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you then are the buddha of paradoxicality
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Kickle]
#28270442 - 04/09/23 09:01 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Nice post 
Do you think there is anything to repeatability? I.e. something 'made up' can be considered in the category of something 'discovered'?
For instance eating a mushroom and finding it to be non-toxic. Then passing that info on.
You can feed young gonnas baby cane toads to teach them not to eat the poisonous amphibians as adults and they learn not to eat them.
But those lizards that have been taught to avoid eating cane toads, are unable to teach it to their young, or pass the behaviour on to their offspring.
Auatralian crows in northern states can teach crows in other states how to flip cane toads and eat solely their livers too.
Crows have good social teaching and adaptation skills.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
#28270760 - 04/10/23 06:48 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Gonnas?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Kickle]
#28271149 - 04/10/23 01:32 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Goannas. Big ol lizards that eat whatever they can fit in their mouths. The yellow spotted variety has had their population decline by 90% since cane toads were introduced and people have been trying to train them not to without long term success unfortunately.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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