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Invisibleburntkitty
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Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things * 1
    #28226335 - 03/12/23 11:48 AM (10 months, 12 days ago)

I've stolen plenty of candy bars in my time. I never feel bad about it. I never even feel bad that I'm in that position. I've gone through horrible trauma too many times to count though. I couldn't imagine anyone feeling bad about it, but it does seem someone who has had it tough would be less prone to feeling guilty for petty crime.

Have you ever found yourself feeling bad about something insignificant like that? Would it be some kind of mental disorder to feel guilty about something like that?


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Hating America doesn't make one racist, it probably means they're the complete opposite. That's not it's name pilgrim

Shia wang a genius he just kept showing his soft til the paparazzi stopped following

Thought capitalism was suppose to stop these soviet union lines

If you give me herpes, Ill give you AIDs

What kind of sickness do they have for wanting the creative not creative. I can only imagine it's satanism


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: burntkitty] * 1
    #28226362 - 03/12/23 12:13 PM (10 months, 12 days ago)

Trauma does often lead to other disorders and I suspect people who haven't been traumatized are less likely to commit chronic petty theft and more likely to feel guilty when it happens. This is the opposite of a disorder.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz]
    #28226416 - 03/12/23 01:06 PM (10 months, 12 days ago)

Are false syllogisms indicated in a disorder?


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Invisibleburntkitty
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz]
    #28226462 - 03/12/23 01:34 PM (10 months, 12 days ago)

I think you mean that is. I agree with what your saying. a slave stealing a chicken wouldn't be healthy for them to feel guilty though(presuming one was born into slavery and it wasn't indentured). Really it's all an analogy but the premise is that the crime is insignificant and one is feeling guilty when they clearly shouldn't, because of social norms that are unjust. Seems like a conformist psychological disorder. Maybe there's a term for it?


--------------------
Hating America doesn't make one racist, it probably means they're the complete opposite. That's not it's name pilgrim

Shia wang a genius he just kept showing his soft til the paparazzi stopped following

Thought capitalism was suppose to stop these soviet union lines

If you give me herpes, Ill give you AIDs

What kind of sickness do they have for wanting the creative not creative. I can only imagine it's satanism


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: burntkitty]
    #28226513 - 03/12/23 02:17 PM (10 months, 12 days ago)

I don't think it's reasonable to say that action has no significance as the cost is passed on to those who pay.

It's a petty crime so perhaps one should feel a little guilty? That would make more sense than suggesting guilt should be absent.

Unless of course guilt is seen in itself as a fault, though you don't seem to be making that argument.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: burntkitty]
    #28226515 - 03/12/23 02:21 PM (10 months, 12 days ago)

it's the dark side
my wife says we all have it.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisibleburntkitty
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz]
    #28226519 - 03/12/23 02:27 PM (10 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't think it's reasonable to say that action has no significance as the cost is passed on to those who pay.

It's a petty crime so perhaps one should feel a little guilty? That would make more sense than suggesting guilt should be absent.

Unless of course guilt is seen in itself as a fault, though you don't seem to be making that argument.




I'm not sure. I think one might say they feel guilty in such a situation when it's really shame bothering them. I keep hearing voices saying shit that sounds like propaganda more than anything(as to guilt trip me). It's almost completely based on a lie though, so it seems not like my subconscious and completely like targeted warfare cause im awesome.

Most people still believe in victimless crime cause the norm is religious fanatics

Also I have no proof that those actions passed on any cost to those who paid.


--------------------
Hating America doesn't make one racist, it probably means they're the complete opposite. That's not it's name pilgrim

Shia wang a genius he just kept showing his soft til the paparazzi stopped following

Thought capitalism was suppose to stop these soviet union lines

If you give me herpes, Ill give you AIDs

What kind of sickness do they have for wanting the creative not creative. I can only imagine it's satanism


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: burntkitty] * 1
    #28226545 - 03/12/23 02:46 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

people that make a fuss in a line up cause a lot more trouble than people who find chocolate bars and are very discrete about it about not paying for them.

and quite a few people think it's ok to carry an automatic weapon into a church or wallmart. there are some very dark crimes and some mere glimmers of discrete darkness that are hardly crimes at all.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: burntkitty] * 3
    #28226550 - 03/12/23 02:49 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

I think it's stupid how petty theft is so heavily moralized in our society. Stealing from an individual person is one thing. Running some sort of major scam, another. Stealing minor items from a major corporation? Even they don't really care. By the time you factor in damage, employee theft, returns, expired product, and half a dozen other things, it probably doesn't even influence their shrink calculations.

How many people who'd never shoplift do all sorts of stupid and illegal things while driving? Fucking around in traffic could kill someone, and causes all sorts of angst and frustration on a daily basis. But it's not as heavily moralized against as stealing. Admit you got a reckless driving charge for excessive speed, and most people will just shrug. Mention ANY form of theft, and someone is sure to chime in and tell you off.

I really think it's just an extension of our worship of Private Property™.

And the simple reality is that lower-class people who steal will be stealing on the street or in the store, and probably be a little more open about it, while upper-class people who steal will do it in a quiet and quasi-legal way. Or just not do it all, because Grandpa and Great-Grandpa did more than enough stealing for the whole clan.

Minor conversational things are what I usually bug out over. Worrying that I offended someone or put my foot in my mouth in some way. Half the time, the people in question probably don't even remember the conversation, or the reaction I thought I got had nothing to do with me.


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Beware of advice- even this.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: B Traven]
    #28226564 - 03/12/23 03:07 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

sounds right


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: burntkitty]
    #28226578 - 03/12/23 03:18 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

burntkitty said:
Also I have no proof that those actions passed on any cost to those who paid.




You can do some research to see what evidence there might be and how it all adds up.

Certainly a single candy bar has little value but one will need to ignore basic logic to conclude it has no value which would be necessary for there to be no cost passed on.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz]
    #28226593 - 03/12/23 03:31 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
This is the opposite of a disorder.




This landed home. Very wise perspective with utility in discernment IMO


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz]
    #28226614 - 03/12/23 03:45 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

what makes a disorder so disorderly?


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz] * 2
    #28226622 - 03/12/23 04:02 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

burntkitty said:
Also I have no proof that those actions passed on any cost to those who paid.




You can do some research to see what evidence there might be and how it all adds up.

Certainly a single candy bar has little value but one will need to ignore basic logic to conclude it has no value which would be necessary for there to be no cost passed on.




Except that the whole "passing on the cost" concept is moot when talking about large-scale enterprises in the current economic system.

Even in smaller businesses, the relationship between fixed and variable costs probably makes overall sales volume vs property values more important than shrink when setting prices. Not to mention how much they might pay for financing on loans and mortgages.

And yes, there are extreme cases, like local convenience stores that get ripped off on the reg. But they don't tend to raise prices, either. They just put in security measures and do things like only allowing a certain number of dumb-ass teenagers in at a time.

Amazon and Target don't even bother restocking returns. They offload them in pallet sales. Other companies stock their outlets with returns. Probably still costs them more to do the receiving,  warehousing, and auctioning-off than they make on the resales. The only point of making you return items to get a refund is that the whole system wouldn't work otherwise. And, of course, making you come back and deal with them, and maybe see some other shiny object that catches your eye.

Some chains are literally now just owned by hedge funds, all they care about is staying vaguely in the black until they can flip the real estate holdings of said chains and make a killing.

Even paying someone to figure out how much that stolen candybar was actually worth to the company probably isn't worth it for them. There's really no way for that direct signal to get through and influence prices. Security and checkout procedures, maybe. But most of that is probably plug-and-play stuff coming from a centralized source, based on macro-scale analyses. And the objective is just to instill enough fear/shame/sense of being observed that most people won't try anything.

So what are we left with, then? How much economic damage was done to the aggrieved entity. CVS ain't feeling that at all when someone pockets a snickers bar. Their primary reason to stock them in first place is just to get people in the door.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


Edited by B Traven (03/12/23 04:04 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: B Traven]
    #28226665 - 03/12/23 05:04 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

Interesting points but that doesn't mean theft is moot. Perhaps in some golden age, not that there was one all things considered, but there was a time when they took the loss because it was small because people more generally frowned on it. It's non-sensical to suggest there is zero consequence to others.

There are various issues when considering cause and effect of a social issue and certainly candy swipers are among the least harmful. That it's a slightly messed up thing in a seriously fucked up world makes no difference on a philosophical level as to the consideration of it being messed up. Calling the cost zero or essentially zero is wrong in several ways.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28226698 - 03/12/23 05:46 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

I was going to address the psychological/philosophical side as well, but opted not to.

I was simply discussing the direct economic costs there, and addressing the issue of price signals.

You're kind of moving the goalposts a bit there. And I feel like it's because this is a serious moral issue to you, even within a proper sense of scale.

Look, I don't steal and I'm not trying to justify stealing. It's just not something I really care that much about, aside from people being robbed of their personal property.

Or, put another way, I care a lot about it, but the way I see ownership on this planet basically means I see the entire system as built on and sustained by plunder.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


Edited by B Traven (03/12/23 05:51 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: B Traven]
    #28226740 - 03/12/23 06:31 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

The topic seems to be about about stealing candy bars not corporate plunder though I do get your point and don't disagree. Systemic plunder by the rich is awful, but the "moral issue" is not inherently different. One can draw a contrast between rich and poor, but those of them who do plunder on some scale are the same. A thief can hardly blame the rich for being successful right?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28226820 - 03/12/23 07:48 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

it's more a matter of mischief, I mean - chocolate bars.
and those chocolate bars themselves, well they kinda suck.
A case of candy is sort of like a casino when you are young.
dazzling
mischief all round.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: Rahz]
    #28226855 - 03/12/23 08:20 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said: A thief can hardly blame the rich for being successful right?




Oh yeah, the plunder goes every which way, until you can't tell which way is up. Lots of people would behave exactly the same way if they were rich.


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Beware of advice- even this.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Do you ever feel guilty for insignificant things [Re: burntkitty]
    #28226898 - 03/12/23 08:52 PM (10 months, 11 days ago)

All the time.


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