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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Kickle]
#28227516 - 03/13/23 09:25 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: What an amazing image. Almost worth a thread all of its own IMO. I'd love to hear what people see in that.
The puppet strings are symbols of leverage.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Kickle] 2
#28227539 - 03/13/23 09:40 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Maybe needless to say the obvious, it's demiurgic to me, or the puppeteer whatever influence can seem to put us in limiting, suffering situations - could be ego, or spiritual forces within or without, the lizard people, ... the puppeteer reminds me of Gman of Half Life too. What looks like a river below is that of maya, the stairway to heaven on the other side which may be true or deceptive, the pyramid and all seeing eye, Saturnian, Illuminati stuff.
Edited by syncro (03/13/23 09:46 AM)
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Buster_Brown]
#28227542 - 03/13/23 09:43 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Ah, very interesting. Surprising depth there in so few words
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Buster_Brown]
#28227547 - 03/13/23 09:48 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
The puppet strings are symbols of leverage.
RJ tubs on the leverage of opinion:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
I don't take responsibility for my opinions 
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Buster_Brown] 1
#28227563 - 03/13/23 10:02 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: Maybe needless to say the obvious, it's demiurgic to me, or the puppeteer whatever influence can seem to put us in limiting, suffering situations - could be ego, or spiritual forces within or without, the lizard people, ... the puppeteer reminds me of Gman of Half Life too. What looks like a river below is that of maya, the stairway to heaven on the other side which may be true or deceptive.
The heaviest view so far IMO But not invalid of course
But at least to me it's a reminder to take multiple views just for that reason. If a heavy view is all one sees, guess how heavy it all feels?
And I think lightening up with other perspectives is healthy. For we all can benefit from taking things a bit more lightly.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: solarshroomster]
#28227573 - 03/13/23 10:08 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said:
It no doubt represents the greatest shocker of my life, a complete 180 from pseudo-skeptic to faithful believer.
How do you recommend I go forward with my life with the knowledge that I have now?
Your views and opinions have changed. Imagine if, in the future, your views and opinions change again about this subject. If this type of change appears impossible (to return to your previous "pseudo-skeptical" viewpoints) - that seeming impossibility might be insightful to ponder.
You say you've experienced increased synchronicities in your life at a rate that was unprecedented relative to the probabilistic means. That implies there is a number of synchronicities that require no explanation, and above this normal level (whatever that is) we must find another explanation that elucidates this phenomenon. How do you know what's an unprecedented rate relative to the probabilistic means?
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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Buster_Brown] 1
#28227579 - 03/13/23 10:10 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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I wanna play!
I see first and foremost - the eye represents awareness , creator , god , brahman , consciousness
The puppeteer represents the ego , how God lost itself / the fall of man
The chains represent the bonds of the mind to suffering and the wheel of samsara
The river or mist near the stairway represents ignorance of the true self , or ignorance in general
The human represents the self and how you have heaven and hell in your hands , do you wanna go down into the mist or up the stairs?
The stairway represents the way out of the bondage and chains of suffering in samsara - moksha , nirvana
That is a really neat picture regardless and really enjoy reading everyone's interpretation of it!
--------------------
 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Kickle]
#28227587 - 03/13/23 10:12 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Painful situations extract painful responses. Perhaps when we're old hands at brain surgery we can process lightly, meanwhile it's hammer and saw
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28227594 - 03/13/23 10:18 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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The river or mist near the stairway represents ignorance of the true self , or ignorance in general
Interesting take on the river.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Buster_Brown]
#28227606 - 03/13/23 10:24 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Painful situations extract painful responses. Perhaps when we're old hands at brain surgery we can process lightly, meanwhile it's hammer and saw
Yes I think this is true. I can recall many, many instances of seeing only pain. If it weren't for impermanence and the help of others, I would still be seeing that.
And if I were unable to see others as helpful, that would probably be an early perspective I'd work hard at applying. Not letting go of the perspective that others can be painful and harmful of course. But really trying to look and discern when they are helpful.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Kickle]
#28227607 - 03/13/23 10:25 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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I didn't mean to say it with heaviness, more like an adventure tale. The demiurge should be taken with lightness I think, as we can see how easy it is to transcend, how hard it can be sometimes otherwise notwithstanding.
Edited by syncro (03/13/23 10:36 AM)
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28227610 - 03/13/23 10:27 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
solarshroomster said:
It no doubt represents the greatest shocker of my life, a complete 180 from pseudo-skeptic to faithful believer.
How do you recommend I go forward with my life with the knowledge that I have now?
Your views and opinions have changed. Imagine if, in the future, your views and opinions change again about this subject. If this type of change appears impossible (to return to your previous "pseudo-skeptical" viewpoints) - that seeming impossibility might be insightful to ponder.
You say you've experienced increased synchronicities in your life at a rate that was unprecedented relative to the probabilistic means. That implies there is a number of synchronicities that require no explanation, and above this normal level (whatever that is) we must find another explanation that elucidates this phenomenon. How do you know what's an unprecedented rate relative to the probabilistic means?
Excellent views. Yes, worldviews always shift based on the level of information received. With the level of information I have now, I formed my view. I think what's a little unique about this is that, whatever the case may be, the "delusion is the reality". In other words, even if we prove that it's just "fireworks going off in the brain", that's not the big deal to me... it's the mere existence and discovery of the spectacle of the "fireworks" that remains a discovery. I'm not sure you can undiscover this, but for those who have glimpsed the Divine Realm, it's not a feeling that "yeah, this is an elated feeling"... it's a "yeah, wow, this is totally different than what I've known before". And you get the sense that you've and other people have seen it before. A lot of the communication on here is just very intelligible to me in ways that would not be without the experience, so it coincides neatly. A whole layer of communication between people on this forum was opened to me that was previously inaccessible it was gibberish before becoming intelligible.
How do I know the unprecedent rate relative to the probabilistic means? This is an undecidable question, and you will have to rely on your intuition, especially in light of the problem of induction (you can't prove that repeated instantiations of something will occur onto the indefinite future or have in the past, so you're forever locked in faith). But, I know the rate has changed, because I know what was the level of synchronicities I've experienced before and how substantially it has changed from that. So, if there was a range of probabilities from which synchronicities could happen, this has picked up dramatically and lasted an unprecedented level of time. I can't continue to not at least be open to the possibility something is going on beyond just "dumb coincidence".
But, yes, individuals are free to change in light of new information for any reason.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28227617 - 03/13/23 10:33 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
So... great image!
Glad you liked it.
Quote:
I can't continue to not at least be open to the possibility something is going on beyond just "dumb coincidence".
Indeed.
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: syncro] 1
#28227629 - 03/13/23 10:42 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: I didn't mean to say it heaviness, more like an adventure tale. The demiurge should be taken with lightness I think, as we can see how easy it is to transcend, how hard it can be sometimes otherwise notwithstanding.
There's this guy named Ken Wilber who writes about states of consciousness. In his view we oscillate within a particular level of consciousness. Oscillation because we aren't static. More like a wavelength. So within that level of consciousness we may be incredibly adept at one thing, then as the wave continues, quite lacking at another. But it all takes place within the state of consciousness we are currently within.
And as we begin to move from one state to another (transcend) it often feels like a death experience. First the old views start to fall away. And then new views start to take their place. And lastly, the old views are seen as being contained by the new views. The old is understood as being contained in the new.
I think this can be a useful conceptualization. And maybe it's helpful as a reminder that not everyone exists in the same state.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: FishOilTheKid]
#28227631 - 03/13/23 10:43 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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I suspect the word "coincidence" is bothered when people call it dumb.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Kickle]
#28227647 - 03/13/23 10:51 AM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
syncro said: I didn't mean to say it heaviness, more like an adventure tale. The demiurge should be taken with lightness I think, as we can see how easy it is to transcend, how hard it can be sometimes otherwise notwithstanding.
There's this guy named Ken Wilber who writes about states of consciousness. In his view we oscillate within a particular level of consciousness. Oscillation because we aren't static. More like a wavelength. So within that level of consciousness we may be incredibly adept at one thing, then as the wave continues, quite lacking at another. But it all takes place within the state of consciousness we are currently within.
And as we begin to move from one state to another (transcend) it often feels like a death experience. First the old views start to fall away. And then new views start to take their place. And lastly, the old views are seen as being contained by the new views. The old is understood as being contained in the new.
I think this can be a useful conceptualization. And maybe it's helpful as a reminder that not everyone exists in the same state.
Ken Wilber is a vipassana guy iirc? I'd be interested in reviewing that.
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: syncro]
#28227943 - 03/13/23 02:42 PM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Not sure I just have 1 book written by him called integral psychology. But that's where the above conception came from
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Kickle]
#28228023 - 03/13/23 03:22 PM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Found it, thanks. "The Great Nest of Being is the backbone of the perennial philosophy, and it would therefore be a crucial ingredient of any truly integral psychology."
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doolhoofd
doolhoofd.com



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Re: I'm frustrated and feel misled into thinking the spiritual world was BS [Re: Kickle]
#28228089 - 03/13/23 03:58 PM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: What an amazing image. Almost worth a thread all of its own IMO. I'd love to hear what people see in that.
Here's a link to the original artwork; and here's a quick link to my opinion on the matter (no use repeating myself, eh?).
-------------------- Penny: 'What are you and Professor FussyFace up to tonight?' Leonard: "Star Wars on Blu-ray." Penny: 'Haven't you seen that movie like, a thousand times?' Leonard: "Not on Blu-ray. Only twice on Blu-ray." Penny: 'Oh, Leonard...' Leonard: "I know. It's high-resolution sadness." - The Big Bang Theory, S07E09
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