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InvisibleTetrasage
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Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics?
    #28200832 - 02/23/23 02:52 PM (1 year, 7 days ago)

I hope this is the right forum, I'm still pretty new here.

My good friend is schizoaffective, but our conversations often revolve around our experiences with LSD. I only met him 3 years ago, so I've never seen or tripped with him before, but he used to drop a lot of acid and says that it made him feel less crazy and that he could talk with other people tripping about his experience being schizoaffective and have them actually understand it better. Still just a trippy good time where he felt more like himself, which sounds pretty standard to me.

Anyways, he's really siked about the mushrooms I got going cause he only tried them once, and I'm a little nervous because I've seen someone predisposed to bipolar go through the wringer after their first trip back in high school. I figure the guys an adult and clearly has positive experiences with it, just goes against a lot of research I've read over the years.

So, anyone met anyone like this? Mostly curious because it seems pretty rare and I'm wondering how common this is (schizophrenia has always been somewhat interesting to me.) But I also don't want to go fucking a guy up unintentionally, y'know? Any information about this would be helpful


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OfflineRiskandTrepidation
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Tetrasage]
    #28201081 - 02/23/23 05:39 PM (1 year, 7 days ago)

I'm curious how psychedelics could make someone's schizoaffectiveness less severe. It sounds like using gasoline to extinguish a fire.

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InvisibleTetrasage
Terence McLahey
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: RiskandTrepidation]
    #28201247 - 02/23/23 06:59 PM (1 year, 6 days ago)

Right? Same here, that's why I'm hesitant to give it to a father of 2 lmao. But at the same time, I'm guessing the people doing the research don't have it. Just wish there was more anecdotal experience floating around from actual schizophrenics rather than people researching it. Because most of what I find generally says it will bring a predisposed person into their first episode, but nothing about what happens after already being diagnosed.

And doing an experiment like that seems kinda unethical..


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InvisibleThe Patient
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Tetrasage]
    #28201271 - 02/23/23 07:08 PM (1 year, 6 days ago)

As someone who has schizophrenia and used alot of psychedelics I enjoyed them alot when I used them but it caught up to me in the end. I've been involuntary emitted to psychiatric hospitals twice for 5 weeks each time and currently on anti psychotic medication.

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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Tetrasage]
    #28201431 - 02/23/23 08:28 PM (1 year, 6 days ago)

You need to ask yourself how you would feel if things went wrong. What if he hurt someone or you, what if he has to get help which means he is taken away from his family. It is the bad that you have to weigh up not the good. You have only known this person for three years, that is not much time. Have you gotten to know his family and friends and asked them what he is like during an episode. Do you even know this person well enough that he is not bullshiting you so that he can get high when he may know full well it is bad for him.

I tell you what, I think you are in a difficult position, being honest and telling him your fears or an out right no could be an uncomfortable conversation.

Edited by Kiwi89 (02/23/23 10:07 PM)

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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: RiskandTrepidation]
    #28201574 - 02/23/23 09:41 PM (1 year, 6 days ago)

Quote:

RiskandTrepidation said:
I'm curious how psychedelics could make someone's schizoaffectiveness less severe. It sounds like using gasoline to extinguish a fire.





This is what I have always read, that people with such issues should avoid psychedelics at all costs.


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InvisibleHFM
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Lucis]
    #28201877 - 02/24/23 03:24 AM (1 year, 6 days ago)

They can be very beneficial in low doses,less is more.High doses aren't a good idea and can leave you in an episode or admitted.If you are having a lot of triggering events or are going to be around any situation that might trigger an episode,a microdose can actually get you just right to breeze through the experience with no episode.It really depends on the person and whether they are on psych meds or not.


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: HFM] * 1
    #28201887 - 02/24/23 03:53 AM (1 year, 6 days ago)

If he's an adult then why are you making decisions for him?

If he feels he is okay to take psychedelics then it's ultimately his choice and any resulting after effects are something he should deal with from an informed standpoint.

It's not on you in anyway, you're not forcing him to do a thing.

This idea of making a decision for someone based off of your ethical yard stick should be put aside.

I sit in my bedroom in suburbia traveling to other universes and often have these in-grained ethical dilemmas regarding being so psychedelic when I'm surrounded by straight shooting neighbors.
In the end I feel sorry for them for missing the experience I have gained.

Personally I feel that by not allowing your friend to experience you are denying him the fullest life he could have.

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InvisibleTetrasage
Terence McLahey
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #28201967 - 02/24/23 06:10 AM (1 year, 6 days ago)

Yeah, that is pretty much where I'm at. I'm not pretending like I know more about schizophrenia and psychedelics than someone who has experience with both.

Like I said, I was partly just curious about it due to never really hearing positive (or any at all really) stories like his


And actually he had a very rewarding experience with them last night, so I'm glad I didn't try to impose any "research" I may have done onto him.


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InvisibleTetrasage
Terence McLahey
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: HFM]
    #28201969 - 02/24/23 06:14 AM (1 year, 6 days ago)

Thanks for the reply man, just the info I was looking for.

Definitley went low, and I'm happy to say he had a very rewarding experience on 1 gram


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Tetrasage]
    #28201979 - 02/24/23 06:22 AM (1 year, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Tetrasage said:
Yeah, that is pretty much where I'm at. I'm not pretending like I know more about schizophrenia and psychedelics than someone who has experience with both.

Like I said, I was partly just curious about it due to never really hearing positive (or any at all really) stories like his


And actually he had a very rewarding experience with them last night, so I'm glad I didn't try to impose any "research" I may have done onto him.




That's great to hear.

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Offlineoursoulsinmotion
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Tetrasage]
    #28202042 - 02/24/23 07:18 AM (1 year, 6 days ago)

Me

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: oursoulsinmotion] * 1
    #28202732 - 02/24/23 02:54 PM (1 year, 6 days ago)

Crapshoot.

I've known a couple of people with schizophrenia (they were diagnosed) that after only two back to back weekend sessions with LSD came out the other side of things for the better...much, much, much better -relative to before. 

I observed positive changes in their general outlooks, emotional affect, cognitive function, organized speech, all improve and proclivity towards self-harm, extreme paranoia, and hard-delusion all seemingly vanish into remission for an almost full two months after the back to back weekend trip sessions I had mentioned earlier concluded.  It was like watching two people waking up from a nightmare they'd been dreaming of while awake for the past 2-3 years  over which I grew to know them.  Truly heartwarming, fascinating, and game-changing stuff, or so I believed & still do believe Psychedelics to potentially be when utilized appropriately.

I don't know where either of them are nowadays, but I deeply wish I could find and talk with either one of them again in order to see how they're doing nowadays and just catch up in general.

Although, on the other hand - I've also seen it negatively effect a (different person) healthy very good friend of mine; a friend that had a family history littered with mental-illness on both sides, namely, Schizo/BPI or II (I forget which)/OCD/MDD/GAD/PD.  Whew...quite a list.  Anywhodl.

Let's just call him Phillip....

Well, Phillip did not fare so well, actually, he had horrible, horrible trips on LSD, 2Ci, and Psilocybin+ from Cubes.  I'm talking full-blown disconnect from what we normally view and share as consensus-reality. Luckily, I had covered my bases earlier by taking an emergency situation like this into consideration just in case.

He continued experimenting over the course of about a year or two, and I think (iirc) after roughly 10 or so trips in total I can only remember him having 1 or maybe 2 that I would consider to be "healthy, fun, cathartic, enlightening, & wonderous trips".


AFAIK- He's doing just fine to this day, but I think his exp. from our earlier days experimenting with psychedelics scared him off of them completely - for better or worse. 

A couple little factoids here about Phillip (nowadays): He's regularly used cannabis in moderation since he was 15y.o.- to which he apparently has no discernible ill-effects from up to this very day.  To me he's become a fine example of an upstanding citizen, a damn good & loyal friend, and studied hard to become what he is today--- one helluva professional chemist. 

In case you couldn't tell...I'm crazy proud of him. :mushroom2::cheers::thumbup:


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Edited by The Blind Ass (02/24/23 03:07 PM)

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OfflinePsion
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #28203827 - 02/25/23 10:23 AM (1 year, 5 days ago)

perhaps for the people it helps, it does so because it helps them make peace with their inner voices? there's people who are known as tulpamancers, who summon mental "people" that talk to them in their head, with their own voices and reactions seemingly (or actually) independent of themselves, with their own personalities. which makes me wonder if schizophrenia is similar to this, only the voices aren't benevolent and stronger, to the point of actually hearing/seeing them and being unable to distinguish the mental and physical world.

though im not terribly familiar with how schizophrenia is actually perceived by those afflicted with it, so its quite possible the two arent related at all, it makes me wonder if shrooms sometimes helps them communicate with their voices and learn to resolve any inner conflicts with them, turning them from antagonists to allies, like working through issues with someone you argue with a lot.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Psion]
    #28203951 - 02/25/23 11:39 AM (1 year, 5 days ago)

Ok so it seemed to me, from what I can still recall - this was like 15 years ago if not more- that the first example I gave the individuals in question noticed the hallucinations they experienced were originating from their own mind.  They spoke with one another at length about it, as if helping one another up out of a hole like two climbers up a cliff, to which at the top of lay a clear & lucid awareness.

Instead of being wary and afraid that the proximal origins of the voices they'd experienced were attributed to something other-than-self, the trip had seemingly caused that *glitch(?) to autocorrect and become appropriately associated with, and reintegrated into, whatever relevant processes in the brain forest allows for non-schizophrenic people to recognize their experience of Mind to be coming from themselves: replete with the entire array of mental content that comes with Mind: be it our own inner monologue "voice(s)", mental images, & perceptions in general... etc etc.

  It was as if the above now rightfully recognized what is aware as being dependent upon the head sitting on their shoulders - not anything elses.  Apologies If that last bit isn't clear...I'm just writing this while I reminisce back on that experience.  I will to think about it some more next time before writing another reply.  :lol:

I also think the two subjects sharing in both having exp w/ schizophrenia related hallucinations, amongst other important things which serve as common ground to bond over- as related to their trips going well & having their trips simultaneously - combined with myself (albeit only very lightly tripping to facilitate communication, mutual trust, & understanding) along with 1 other yet completely sober person whom they had both known for a long time and whom they bore no ill-will towards.....All that, went a long ways towards things turning out the way they did.  Positively.

iirc They each were dosed with *250ug LSD?
I know I dosed 50ug and then quietly sat with cool awareness the entire time for the most part.

Additionally- and to the best of my knowledge- the 2 people w/ schizophrenia were not in acute psychosis before or during the trip *unless you count tripping as psychosis*. They were stable at the time. They had stopped the majority of their medications by weening off of them over several months in anticipation of the aforementioned experimental trip and they did so  while under the care of their long time psychiatric nurse practitioner (<< whom, btw - just happened to be the person in the group that I knew from work, that the 2 also knew bc she treated them).

Btw: I wasn't the brains behind this operation.  No way.  LOL.  I was there out of curiosity, and because I had been asked to participate as a trip sitter, or control; and, if possible, help lend a hand if needed.


In conclusion, (*speculation) I don't believe they no longer experience any +/-symptoms of schizophrenia; although the intensity may have been lessened for a time & or gone into remission longer than might usually occur for whatever reason.

Rather, I believe they both gained an invaluable perspective from their psychedelic trips that I (*personal bias*) prefer to see as similar to the perspective one might gain with respect to the nature of dreaming upon experiencing a moment of paradox by way of an undeniably clear moment of lucidity whilst dreaming and afterwards using the memory of that very experience of lucid dream as the touchstone from which they/anyone could then view their own experience of Mind through- regardless of if healthy minded or not so much so.


I think it must be very tricky to reproduce on a whim.
The first example had lots of planning and work put into it.  Everything was controlled as much as it could be under mixed conditions w/ a semi-professional setting.

The second example, the one with my personal friend, was done more so on a whim than anything else - and occurred many years before example number 1 did.  I was still relatively inexperienced at the time, my friend, even less so himself.  Plus, with him I recall our mushroom trips to be the worst of all the experiences for him.

ie.  *while tripping he began to display symptoms associated with psychosis wrt +shizo. Despite never having experienced those things in those degrees before.  We weren't even 20 years old yet.  Anywhodl.  He grew more and more agitated as he became less and less able to differentiate between the real & the imaginary.  With that came extreme paranoia, eventually that crossed the line into complete delusion in the form of his personal conviction that he must in fact be dead, and, that I was an angel capable of reading his heart-mind, sent there to "test him" (his words) to judge if he gets a pass into heaven or not...LOL. 
I can laugh looking back on it now, but at the time it was very concerning.  So, there's much to unpack there in terms of aspect sources of influence like: social/cultural/family/friends/religion/education regarding their roles wrt conditioning my friend - as he was at the time back then.

It wasn't until years later that I got an idea of what went wrong that night.

There's so much more to be said... but for now that's all folks! ttyl.


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OfflineKeerplunk
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Tetrasage]
    #28206061 - 02/26/23 08:26 PM (1 year, 3 days ago)

I feel like it's too risky for someone with schizophrenia to trip.

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OfflineRiskandTrepidation
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: Keerplunk]
    #28206157 - 02/26/23 09:51 PM (1 year, 3 days ago)

So my question is, how do we distinguish between "dangerous" psychedelic-induced psychosis or schizophrenia, and the "harmless" ego death that many people say is a good part of a trip? (the ego death or feelings of "I'm dying, I'm dead" that is so common while tripping?)

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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Anyone here have or know anybody with schizophrenia/schizoaffective who enjoy psychedelics? [Re: RiskandTrepidation]
    #28206183 - 02/26/23 10:23 PM (1 year, 3 days ago)

The "ego death" that is so popular in modern psychedelic culture isn't an I'm dying or dead feeling, it's just disassociation that's a broad terminology for modern researchers. "I'm dead" type experiences are often traumatic or at minimum highly disconcerting and are quite rare. I've been tripping a long time and it's only happened to me once when mixing different psychedelics together. Thinking you might die when on psychedelics is very common though. Just about every tripper has one of those stories.

A good friend of mine has cyclical schizophrenia and we used to take psychedelics all the time together. I just thought he was a bit crazy, but that was cool because I like that. It never impacted him significantly negatively or caused a psychotic episode. It was just what it is. He still trips now from time to time as well. It's never been a critical problem, unlike any interaction with amphetamines.

Conventional wisdom says people predisposed to psychosis shouldn't take psychedelic drugs, though there's been mixed results when people do.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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