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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Ice9]
#28209050 - 03/01/23 06:18 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Nationalizing private industries. Why is government going to Elon musk for charging stations? I thought the gov can do it. No need for private industries.
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Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes


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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: starfire_xes]
#28209055 - 03/01/23 06:25 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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No one in this thread is talking about nationalizing everything. You're making shit up.
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ballsalsa
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#28209071 - 03/01/23 06:48 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Which idiots?
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Kryptos
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: zoidbergo] 1
#28209081 - 03/01/23 07:01 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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I spent a few years in academia doing, ostensibly, drug development. Essentially, we just generated dozens of close analogues of a certain structure that the lab did research on, and then submitted them, along with sample and characterization, to...I wanna say NIH? Who put together a database which was then accessible to corporate clients who could look through the database and find stuff they thought looked promising.
Quote:
zoidbergo said: Nationalizing the pharmaceutical industry wouldn't transform the field into academia, and there's no reason it's employees would need to be paid any less. Researchers wouldn't need to "buy in" to do the same work they already do, and that work wouldn't be any less goal oriented.
Academia's quirks, freedoms, and structure come from the rigid hierarchy of graduate students and postdoc working under professors and all of the context and weight of basic science's history and culture, not from the fact that most research universities are public entities.
This is absolutely not true, there is a massive financial difference between corporate and academic R+D which is unrelated to the structure of having graduate students and entirely reliant on...basically the tenure/public funding system. In corporate R+D, management assigns you a project and a timeframe to work on that project, if enough time has passed and you show that you're clearly doing work, then when time's up, the project ends, and you get assigned a new project by management.
Academic R+D, you pick what you work on, and then beg the government for funding on your idea.
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ballsalsa
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Ice9]
#28209085 - 03/01/23 07:04 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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It literally does. That's how fractional reserve banking works. The government gets unlimited money in exchange for letting the banks also print unlimited money that they can loan out with interest. That's what federal reserve notes are, checks written against the assets of the federal reserve. These notes are backed by "assets" like government debt. 2hen the government needs money it doesn't have, it issues more bonds and has the fed buy them up.
I mean, there are steps but that's what it boils down to. All I'm saying is that the public should reap some benefit too.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa]
#28209103 - 03/01/23 07:33 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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The Federal Reserve controls the money supply in the United States, it doesn't actually print the currency bills itself, but it does determine how many bills are to be printed.
Everything but the printing press. Same difference, lol. They would probably bill the US Treasury for the expense for printing if they did.
"We will change you $1.50 per dollar bill"
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28209138 - 03/01/23 08:03 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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It great to have private bankers run the economy.
🤡
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28209161 - 03/01/23 08:18 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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There's extremely important economic reasons why we can't just print an unlimited amount of money from our magic money foutain. Yet another concept people don't seem to get. NASA is a decent example but it's really more of a subsidization rather than the nationalization of the aerospace industry. It ties together the post war military industry in places like California and elsewhere that would have gone bankrupt and collapsed in peacetime but are extremely vital to both national security and the economy. In general its extremely difficult to convince the public to throw massive sums of money into any branch of scientific research as they alway push toward spending money on things that benefit them directly into thier pocket not looking at the bigger picture and how much it greatly benefits all humankind. which is the quickest way to fuck up the economy with things like hyper inflation and what not even tho they just complain complain complain if a captain of industry changing the world for the better benefits in the slightest.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: starfire_xes]
#28209165 - 03/01/23 08:20 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: It great to have private bankers run the economy.
🤡
Yeah its terrible to have experts and economists run the economy we should let clowns who don't have a clue and are personally more greedy than anyone when given the opportunity run it
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SirTripAlot
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#28209189 - 03/01/23 08:45 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Government has a substantial role to play, though. Even Adam Smith recognized the importance of regulation.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#28209327 - 03/01/23 10:48 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: There's extremely important economic reasons why we can't just print an unlimited amount of money from our magic money foutain
And yet we do anyway. The only time anyone complains is when there are proposals to leverage fractional reserve banking in ways that might be beneficial to the public at large rather than special interest groups.
Curious.
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Kryptos
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa]
#28209338 - 03/01/23 10:57 AM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Gonna have to take a middle tack here. A reach, I guess, technically, but that's not how the saying goes. Anyway.
It is much easier to print money than Chief thinks, and it is much harder to print money than balls thinks.
Also, I think a vastly underappreciated factor in the printing of money to feed the rich versus the printing of money to help the poor, is that the rich don't actually spend that money. The poor do. Ultimately, handing a rich person a shitload of cash has less impact on the economy because that cash is gonna go into a savings/investment account and do jack shit. Money given to poor people is immediately circulated within the economy, which has a direct and immediate effect on the economy. Some of that is good (local community benefits), some of that is bad (inflation).
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Kryptos]
#28209416 - 03/01/23 12:10 PM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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How does the poor spending shitloads of unearned money causing massive inflation only for it to land in the pockets of the rich benefit the economy in anyway? It's much better to provide certain social safety nets while still maintaining its value to provide the incentive for earners who bring usable goods and services to market. What your talking about is the crux of why communism does not work and only eventually serves a powerful few.
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ballsalsa
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Kryptos]
#28209421 - 03/01/23 12:13 PM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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I'm m not even suggesting that we do anything we don't already do, only that we reallocate some thin-air money for something good instead of subsidies and bailouts for the wealthiest people and organizations in the world
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa]
#28209426 - 03/01/23 12:15 PM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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ballsalsa
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28209432 - 03/01/23 12:27 PM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: The Federal Reserve controls the money supply in the United States, it doesn't actually print the currency bills itself, but it does determine how many bills are to be printed.
Everything but the printing press. Same difference, lol. They would probably bill the US Treasury for the expense for printing if they did.
"We will change you $1.50 per dollar bill"
A lot of the dollars never exist physically. There isn't a scrooge McDuck vault somewhere with bills backing all the dollars in existence. In fact, there are less that $3 trillion in notes and coins circulating worldwide.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa] 2
#28209600 - 03/01/23 02:23 PM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Your right, money is created out of thin air with a loan and its not paper. I did own a 1985 Cadillac Seville that had a Scrooge McDuck spare tire, though.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (03/01/23 02:24 PM)
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: SirTripAlot] 1
#28209606 - 03/01/23 02:29 PM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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That's a pretty nice cadillac got that slant back.
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Kryptos
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa]
#28209716 - 03/01/23 03:56 PM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: I'm m not even suggesting that we do anything we don't already do, only that we reallocate some thin-air money for something good instead of subsidies and bailouts for the wealthiest people and organizations in the world
Again, my point is that thin air money becomes pretty thick depending on where it is.
This ties back to the idea of logarithmic money that I have certainly mentioned at least once, and never completely abandoned. Either way, the point is that 100$x100 people =/= 10,000$x1 person, because of how that money is going to be spent, or if it is going to be spent in the first place.
So...2$+2$ does not, in fact, equal 4$
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ballsalsa
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Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Kryptos]
#28209920 - 03/01/23 05:40 PM (10 months, 22 days ago) |
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You're gonna have to spell out the implication and how it relates to the difficulty or lack thereof in generating money for projects with more merit than making Elon's bank account go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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