Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,808
Loc: Foreign Lands
At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries?
    #28200910 - 02/23/23 04:12 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Or incorporating them into state governments?  How many towns will we let pg&e burn down? How many chemical laden freight trains should derail? How many coal ash ponds should we allow to drain into local rivers?

Etc.

It seems obvious to me that energy generation/transmission and rail shipping should be on the table.  What other industries could yield better results for the public if nationalized?


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineIce9
3X Ban Lotto Champion
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,229
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 30 minutes, 47 seconds
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #28200913 - 02/23/23 04:14 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Healthcare
:micdrop:


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 25 seconds
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #28200920 - 02/23/23 04:16 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Generation private. Transmission public. Railroads public. Trains private.

All the natural monopolies should be public


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 25 seconds
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28200923 - 02/23/23 04:17 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Healthcare
:micdrop:




You don’t need to nationalize the entire healthcare industry, just payment.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,258
Last seen: 21 hours, 59 minutes
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: koods]
    #28200940 - 02/23/23 04:26 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Trains cannot be private on a fully public railroad system, because it actively kills train innovation. Specifically, because the slowest wagon sets the speed limit on rail, it actually kind of rewards having the shittiest, slowest, most cheaply maintained wagon on the tracks, because rails have no passing lane.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 25 seconds
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28200973 - 02/23/23 04:42 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

You can set speed limits. Problem solved. Next?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,472
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28201027 - 02/23/23 05:07 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
What other industries could yield better results for the public if nationalized?



I don't think rail and energy would yield better results if public.  We don't have a lot of examples of publicly owned service organizations that are efficient and well-run.  If anything, we mostly have examples of the opposite being true, from current public utilities like the LADWP to Amtrak.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,808
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28201037 - 02/23/23 05:12 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

LADWP outperforms Edison by virtually every metric and contributes profits directly to funding the city while also paying it's workers better.


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,472
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28201044 - 02/23/23 05:16 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

"virtually" every metric must not include cost.  Moving into Los angeles proper quadrupled my electric bill.  Of course, they send me half as many bills, so it only amount to doubling...

Still..that's excessive


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,808
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Enlil]
    #28201055 - 02/23/23 05:22 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Stay out of tier three :crankey:

That said, when was the last time DWP set the state on fire?


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,472
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #28201057 - 02/23/23 05:23 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Uh...you say that like it's a bad thing.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,258
Last seen: 21 hours, 59 minutes
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: koods]
    #28201147 - 02/23/23 06:14 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
You can set speed limits. Problem solved. Next?




No, problem not solved. British Rail tried this, and it did not work.

This is only a small example of the many, many, many possible shenanigans that a private train can undertake on a public rail, because, once again, there is no passing rail.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28201426 - 02/23/23 08:22 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

@ OP:  ASAP...wrt trains/railways...just so long as we get the supped up version of this baby. 



--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 11 hours, 19 minutes
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28201991 - 02/24/23 06:35 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

The vast majority of US is laid out for privately owned vehicles to commute to and fro notwithstanding the culture of cars therein. I don't see rail/ better public transport for awhile. Now my exposure to the younger generations seems like cars and getting ones drivers licenses is low on the rung, so that may change.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,340
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 2 hours, 54 minutes
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28202023 - 02/24/23 07:02 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

I have mixed feelings about nationalizing vital industries. At some moral level it seems wrong for shareholders to profit from them. Then it comes down to the government being able to do the job without competition. If they did that would be preferable, but in the real world government is often inefficient, and public and private sectors both have bad actors and corruption.

It would be an interesting social experiment to intentionally split a vital industry between public and private. That could introduce a couple levels of competition, and maybe both would be incentivized for better performance. But I'm not prone to optimism, so probably not.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,258
Last seen: 21 hours, 59 minutes
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28202084 - 02/24/23 08:15 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Sometimes things don't need to be efficient.

Running electricity to a town of less than a thousand people is inefficient as fuck, but we do it anyway. Running roads to towns smaller than 5k is an inefficient waste of taxpayer money, but we do it anyway. Those towns can't afford to support the infrastructure required to have electricity and roads.

Why are we suddenly so hung up on efficiency when it comes to rail?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,472
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28202089 - 02/24/23 08:20 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Because shipping is more important than ever and will continue to become more important.  As you've said...there is no passing lane, so keeping the trains moving efficiently is crucial to our way of life.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,258
Last seen: 21 hours, 59 minutes
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Enlil]
    #28202094 - 02/24/23 08:23 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

I think we're talking about two different types of efficiency here...one being the efficiency of trains per hour and the other being the efficiency of laying track that will have few trains per hour.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,472
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28202098 - 02/24/23 08:27 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Those are means to an end.  Efficiency means more freight travels to its destination in a given time span at a given cost in money and human suffering.  Whether that means more tracks, longer/faster trains...those are details, my friend.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineB Traven
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,478
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 7 hours, 13 minutes
Re: At what point should we consider nationalizing vital industries? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28202105 - 02/24/23 08:30 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Amtrak is a quasi-public corporation that receives subsidies but still must turn a profit. It also doesn't own the vast majority of the track it runs on. Those two facts account for most of its issues.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | Next >  [ show all ]


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST
( 1 2 3 all )
lonestar2004 5,061 40 02/25/07 12:16 PM
by gluke bastid
* Hitler V Saddam
( 1 2 all )
germin8tionn8ion 4,258 28 07/03/04 09:20 AM
by Ed1
* My plan to clean up the Pharmaceutical industry.
( 1 2 all )
Baby_Hitler 2,653 27 01/25/03 10:50 AM
by Dilauded
* Collapse of Industrial Civilization
( 1 2 3 4 all )
NiamhNyx 4,248 66 02/22/04 01:35 PM
by Protester
* Should the industrialized world thank the U.S. for oil?
( 1 2 all )
RandalFlagg 2,081 36 12/08/04 09:17 PM
by kadakuda
* Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives
( 1 2 3 all )
Prajna 3,231 52 01/01/06 06:39 PM
by RandalFlagg
* How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power (long) ekomstop 1,323 5 09/28/04 05:16 PM
by Phred
* National ID cards hit Great Britian TrueBrode 721 5 04/29/04 05:29 PM
by TrueBrode

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,587 topic views. 7 members, 6 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.023 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.