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Offlinesimplethings
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Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products?
    #28199148 - 02/22/23 12:32 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Forgive me if this is the wrong forum to post in, but "Political discussion" seemed like the closest fit for legal questions...

I live in Washington state and want to sell consumable products - foods, beverages, tinctures, tea blends, etc - that contain small amounts of Amanita muscaria. I am trying to understand the legality of selling these products to consumers both in Washington state and in other states that do not ban its sale, and what kinds of disclaimers we would need to include on the packaging to protect from liability.

From what I have been able to determine, none of the chemical constituents of the mushroom are controlled substances either federally or at the state level. I can find no laws or regulations that explicitly ban its sale, possession, distribution, or consumption. My question is: When a substance is not explicitly regulated or banned by the FDA, USDA, or other federal/state regulatory agencies, does that mean that it can be treated like any other food and sold to consumers? Is there anything about what we are planning on doing that is illegal in Washington state, or at the federal level?

My concern is that in very large doses (dozens or hundreds of times larger than the amounts contained in our products) Amanita muscaria can have psychoactive and unpleasant side effects. Despite the fact that consumers would have to consume dozens of times the suggested serving to be at risk of negative side effects, we were still planning on including warnings that if they abuse the product that it could make them ill or impaired. Would that be enough to protect us from liability legally if someone were to consume many times the suggested dose?

(Also, please don't comment with "ask a lawyer" - yes, I probably will hire an attorney before I actually sell anything, just to be safe. But I am trying to get some preliminary information just to get an idea of if this is a waste of time/money or if it's definitely illegal.)


Edited by simplethings (02/22/23 02:20 PM)


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: simplethings] * 1
    #28200264 - 02/23/23 07:39 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Who wants to consume amnita muscaria ?
  I've never read a single positive thing about about the side effects .


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #28200396 - 02/23/23 09:21 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Dizzy and diarrhea exploding shits, or mythically drinking reindeer piss. It's so marketable.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlinesimplethings
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28201578 - 02/23/23 09:43 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Who wants to consume amnita muscaria ?



People have been consuming it for thousands of years, all over the world both for its psychoactive effects and as a choice edible. ... So lots of people want to use it.

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:I've never read a single positive thing about about the side effects .



Then you obviously haven't researched enough. People haven't used it for millenia out of masochism. There are benefits if used properly, and the severe negative side effects are an issue with large doses and improper preparation.

Besides tasting good as an edible, in small doses it can be very grounding and used as a mild anti-anxiety drug or sleep aid due to its effect as a GABA agonist, with no negative side effects.

But I don't feel like getting into a long discussion about the uses/benefits of Amanita muscaria (there is plenty of info online if you want to research that). I am more interested in getting answers to the legal question I brought up in my original post.


Edited by simplethings (02/23/23 09:50 PM)


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28201754 - 02/24/23 12:09 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Who wants to consume amnita muscaria ?
  I've never read a single positive thing about about the side effects .






A lot of people like the deliriant effects, it can also be used as a sleep aid or for help with mild anxiety disorders when taken in small quantities.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: simplethings]
    #28201920 - 02/24/23 04:53 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

I've seen targeted ads for supposed amanita muscaria gummies. Everything I read from comments and reviews said they were just highly concentrated CBD/THC gummies. I'll try and find the ad so I can get a screenshot. But you've been able to get amanita powder online for a long time. It's not something I've looked into recently so maybe they've put a kabosh on it. I think it was one of those things where you say you're selling it as incense and you're good money.


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Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 1
    #28201946 - 02/24/23 05:36 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

You take what you get around here, it's up to you to separate the wheat from the chaff.

When I first saw this thread, I held off from questioning the ethics of selling amanita-infused products to a largely ignorant public (and if you're questioning the legality then we're definitely talking about the public writ large).

But now I see you're doubling down with "shut up, I just want free legal advice here to figure out if my business plan is off-sides." So, fuck it.

I'm questioning the ethics of selling amanita-infused products to a largely ignorant public. And asking for more exposition on exactly how one can produce safe amanita-based products that do little harm to the user. "It just gets a bad rap" isn't enough for me.

I just went to google to try to brush up on what I thought I'd read about muscimol's neurotoxicity. First hit was an ad for fly agaric tincture from Wal-Mart. So there's that.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


Edited by B Traven (02/24/23 05:54 AM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #28202019 - 02/24/23 06:56 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Who wants to consume amnita muscaria ?
  I've never read a single positive thing about about the side effects .




i tried it once ive always stuck with the description of psychedelic flu.

besides maybe yopo seeds and that one time i found meth on the floor amanita has to be one of the worst drug experiences of my life.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #28202028 - 02/24/23 07:05 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Who wants to consume amnita muscaria ?
  I've never read a single positive thing about about the side effects .




i tried it once ive always stuck with the description of psychedelic flu.



I like that description, pretty accurate.


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Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 1
    #28202057 - 02/24/23 07:39 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

But I don't feel like getting into a long discussion about the uses/benefits of Amanita muscaria (there is plenty of info online if you want to research that). I am more interested in getting answers to the legal question I brought up in my original post.




    I've heard way more negative than positive , you want me to buy this shit from you  but you don't want to talk about the fact that this shit has horrible side effects and can be deadly ?
      You're going to get sued or arrested trying  to sell a mushroom that can kill  while pretending  it's just this harmless misunderstood thing .
  Datura has been used for thousands of years by people and that was the worst drug experience of my life , I'm pretty sure it almost killed me .


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: mushboy]
    #28202365 - 02/24/23 11:10 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Who wants to consume amnita muscaria ?
  I've never read a single positive thing about about the side effects .




i tried it once ive always stuck with the description of psychedelic flu.

besides maybe yopo seeds and that one time i found meth on the floor amanita has to be one of the worst drug experiences of my life.




Floor meth sounds intriguing. Were you in Florida at the time?


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28202381 - 02/24/23 11:28 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

I found a couple of grams of meth on the Bart train on my way out of San Fransisco about 6 years ago . I carried it all the way to my car and then changed my mind and threw it on the ground because I promised myself  I Would never touch that shit ever again back in the day .
  Well the next day on my way to work I was super tired and when I hopped out of my truck it was still there , and ya I snorted some .
  Best meth of my entire life .


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #28202546 - 02/24/23 01:10 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Did meth once, and that was enough. Didn't find it fun to organize my sock drawer for hours.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28202606 - 02/24/23 01:51 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

I did it once and had WAY too much fun. Knew I needed to stay far away after that.

Stayed up for 36 hours and was taking my bedframe apart to reconfigure it on hour 35 and a half. Slept for 12 hours and woke up feeling fine. Knew that couldn't possibly be sustainable.

Also drank amanita tea around that time as well. Only time I've experienced a full-on hallucination, an inanimate object appearing to be something completely different. And moving around. Noped the fuck out on that shit afterwards, too.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: B Traven]
    #28202752 - 02/24/23 03:03 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Man, best thing I ever found was a pack of smokes that had a half g of black tar and a single cigarette on a disc golf course.

I hot knifed it. It was mediocre.

Meth is the best.


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Offlinesimplethings
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28203028 - 02/24/23 06:03 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

I don't care that you overdosed yourself on Amanita and got sick. I don't care if you think it's ethical. You clearly are just uneducated about low dose usage of Amanita, and are basing everything you are saying off of either internet hearsay or some bad experience you had because you didn't know what you were doing. The doses I'm talking about including in the product are a small fraction of what would be necessary to have the kinds of side effects y'all are talking about, and if you actually read about the mushroom's millenia of historical use you'd know that it can be totally safe and beneficial to use if done properly.

I'm just gonna chill here and wait for somebody who actually has a clue to answer my actual question, and let you losers hang here chatting with each other about your floor meth experiences.


Edited by simplethings (02/24/23 06:07 PM)


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: simplethings]
    #28203038 - 02/24/23 06:11 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Yeah, I'm sure the native shamans of Siberia approached all this with the same level of entitlement and snark that you're displaying.

Enjoy your wait.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Legality of selling Amanita muscaria in consumable products? [Re: B Traven]
    #28203096 - 02/24/23 06:47 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

@OP

Since you're processing a fresh fruit or veggie, in Washington state you need a Food Processor's license. This means you need to pass a kitchen inspection, so you're gonna need at least a three compartment sink, stainless steel counters, sealed concrete floor, stainless steel or fiberglass walls, and a sealed ceiling. Further, you will need proper lighting and adequate ventilation, the exact requirements for which will change depending on the specifics. Your inspector might be able to help with this. You will also need adequate water and refrigeration facilities.

Also, this must be a commercial property, you cannot have people sleeping in the same building.

Next, I hope you're making supplements that have no attached health claims, as Alex Jones proved, those are easy to sell if you have a commercial kitchen. If you're making actual foods, you will likely need to pass a cooking class and get certified as a competent cook.

And you can't sell your shit in Louisiana.

Other states might have additional requirements, but WA looks pretty strict, so you'll probably be good for a majority of states. Definitely the red ones.

Also, Washington almost certainly has a small business development office as part of the state government, which you should probably contact and start asking questions. I'd guess it's a good one. Generally, the small business development offices depend on the state. Some states have very comprehensive guides and are willing to work very closely with you, to the point of free consultations for as long as you want if you walk down to the office. Other states will send you a letter telling you to figure it out yourself.


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