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OfflineEnkidu
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Trump * 4
    #28198613 - 02/22/23 04:07 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

I haven't voted in idr how long and I never thought that shit mattered at all or made a difference

Well after Biden and all the insanity of the extreme far left and their wild agendas to destroy the country I can't wait to go vote for Trump !

I'd be surprised if there isn't an overwhelming turnout to vote conservative after this disaster of electing Biden

I've seen so many democrats and liberals who have said they absolutely made a mistake with voting left and realized how lost and how full of lies their political agendas are

I know this site leans hard to the left so I expect an extreme backlash and to be attacked because I will be voting for someone who doesn't align with some of your views but if you're a far left winger you have to realize you have yourself to blame for me going out and making sure Trump has one more vote and I bet a lot of people like me who don't vote and don't give a fuck about voting will be feeling and doing the same

:cheers:


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Enkidu]
    #28198619 - 02/22/23 04:16 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

This thread was moved from The Pub.

Reason:
Goes here.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #28198692 - 02/22/23 06:49 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

I am looking forward to you voting for Trump too. Especially so when he isn't the nominee.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera] * 1
    #28198747 - 02/22/23 08:02 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

I love how all the people that don't really vote or don't really think voting matters always seem to be the people that show up in a MAGA hat every six months.

At least us crazy radical leftists who *checks notes* believe that people should have rights are willing to stand up for our beliefs consistently, not to shit something out every six months and throw it at everyone else.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28198839 - 02/22/23 09:27 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Chances are, the OP has some serious racial resentment he/she is harboring. (backed up by studies: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/22/opinion/democrats-republicans-education-racial-resentment.html)

But overall, this is a troll of a post. Yawn.

If you could please give us some examples of why Biden has been a disaster?

Was it his policy of separating children from their families at the border?

Was it his habit of throwing ketchup on the walls of the White House? (I bring this up due to the right's furious backlash of Obama disrespecting the office by daring to put his feet on the desk in the Oval Office)

Was it, perhaps, his stoking of racial divisions in the country?

Or maybe it was when all the left-wing, Biden supporters stormed the capitol, beat police officers, and threatened the democracy of this country?

See with no examples, you're either: a) just fishing for outrage; or, b) living in a right-wing media bubble where everything is crap but when pressed, no objective evidence is provided.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28198876 - 02/22/23 09:43 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Theyre right about the radical left ill give them that and this is the exact reaction to be expected from thier failed and idiotic policies. Way to go dumbasses. :facepalm:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28198897 - 02/22/23 09:56 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Tell me about the radical left. I don't follow this political leaning stuff very closely as a narrative. Probably because it doesn't align with my real world experiences of others. People I interact with daily don't seem radical. But sometimes I'll see people on the corner proselytizing the evils of abortion. I guess I consider that a kind of radical because it's a minority group getting active in a community that doesn't share such views. So their efforts are radically different from the majority.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #28198934 - 02/22/23 10:12 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

The radical left clearly doesn't even exist in this country. There is nothing radical about wanting right to abortion, trying to provide people with healthcare, trying to be a steward of the environment, or giving a shit about gun violence. Especially considering we hardly have a political party willing to do anything about those things.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kickle] * 2
    #28198943 - 02/22/23 10:16 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

On the farthest end of the left wing you find your neo communists/anarchists and violent left wing extremist groups which are both becoming more prevalent. Then it goes down from there to the less violent and extremist groups who have actually been able to recently instigate alot of failed policies in certain regions of the country. All of these groups should be admonished for thier narrow minded intolerant and extremist views by the more temperate left especially any groups promoting violence and attacks on free democracy. :sadyes:


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera] * 1
    #28198944 - 02/22/23 10:17 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
The radical left clearly doesn't even exist in this country. There is nothing radical about wanting right to abortion, trying to provide people with healthcare, trying to be a steward of the environment, or giving a shit about gun violence. Especially considering we hardly have a political party willing to do anything about those things.



Everything about this is dead wrong. :facepalm:


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28198985 - 02/22/23 10:40 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Nope, it's you that is dead wrong. You can't provide a single piece of radical left legislation that has been past, can you?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28199000 - 02/22/23 10:47 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Just look at the certain aspects of criminal justice reform and growing homeless crisis in places like California and Oregon. These people just won't admit they took things too far and it hasn't worked.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199001 - 02/22/23 10:48 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

That didn't even come close to answering my question.

This thread is about electing Donald Trump because the far left are taking over the country. How is the far left taking over the country when you can't name a single piece of far left legislation? Do enlighten me.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28199002 - 02/22/23 10:49 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Housing first


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199009 - 02/22/23 10:53 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Housing First has been largely successful worldwide, and it isn't even remotely legislated by the radical left. BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY RADICAL LEFT POLITICAL BODIES!


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28199018 - 02/22/23 11:02 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

No it hasn't polices like housing first and other far left legislation fail to address the root problems of homelessness and therefore have only led to an ever balloning homeless crisis and a hemorrhaging waste of public funds in those places. Same thing with how getting hard on crime flat out didn't work the new age getting soft on crime doesn't work either although there are like I said certain aspects to both these issues that have worked and should be held onto but there needs to be an admission of those failures by policey makers. We absolutely do have radical left political bodies although many hide behind a facade that is vague and leaves aspects open to personal interpretation and no open condemnation of these negative detrimental and extremist aspects by these groups such as antifa and so on.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199026 - 02/22/23 11:10 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Where is the radical left political party? Name 20 people that are members.

Antifa by definition is not a group.

You are falling flat on your face here, homie.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28199035 - 02/22/23 11:18 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

AOC is radical and was a bartender...a waitress as well! She isn't even that close to the "left" of most European governments.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (02/22/23 11:19 AM)


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera] * 2
    #28199043 - 02/22/23 11:23 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Antifa is both a political ideal and extremist political group. I myself am fervently anti fascist but in no way support the rhetoric or actions of the political group antifa or black bloc or other left wing extremists or right wing for that matter. Just because you deny thier existence or influence doesn't mean that in reality we didn't see the very real effects during the race riots and very real institutions of failed policies regarding the reaction to it in places like Seattle and elsewhere and subsequently the extreme and unlawfully wrong reactions by the right to it.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 1
    #28199044 - 02/22/23 11:24 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
No it hasn't polices like housing first and other far left legislation fail to address the root problems of homelessness and therefore have only led to an ever balloning homeless crisis and a hemorrhaging waste of public funds in those places. Same thing with how getting hard on crime flat out didn't work the new age getting soft on crime doesn't work either although there are like I said certain aspects to both these issues that have worked and should be held onto but there needs to be an admission of those failures by policey makers. We absolutely do have radical left political bodies although many hide behind a facade that is vague and leaves aspects open to personal interpretation and no open condemnation of these negative detrimental and extremist aspects by these groups such as antifa and so on.




Housing first resulted in an average 53% decrease in public money spent per person. It is, as far as cost-benefit goes, one of the most wildly successful social programs in human history.

The fact that you think there's any radical left policies in the US shows you need to go easy on the Koolaid.

Hell, the fact that you accept OP at face value, and don't recognize them as a consistently pro trump poster in both this and the conspiracy subforum makes me think you need to go easy on the Koolaid.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28199047 - 02/22/23 11:29 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
AOC is radical and was a bartender...a waitress as well! She isn't even that close to the "left" of most European governments.



We've also seen an extreme rise regressive backwards ideals such as fascism and communism in Europe thanks in part to the stoking from American politics by trump the alt right and the extreme left with very real and dangerous ramifications for folks there. We are the example to the world and by leading a poor one thru shitty devisive bullshit politics we give other nefarious actors in less stable countries an outlined playbook to use. How many times have we now seen these people use trump cards around the world to attempt seize power or float complete bullshit? We have to recognize this as a major problem that should be put astop to.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199049 - 02/22/23 11:34 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
No it hasn't polices like housing first and other far left legislation fail to address the root problems of homelessness and therefore have only led to an ever balloning homeless crisis and a hemorrhaging waste of public funds in those places. Same thing with how getting hard on crime flat out didn't work the new age getting soft on crime doesn't work either although there are like I said certain aspects to both these issues that have worked and should be held onto but there needs to be an admission of those failures by policey makers. We absolutely do have radical left political bodies although many hide behind a facade that is vague and leaves aspects open to personal interpretation and no open condemnation of these negative detrimental and extremist aspects by these groups such as antifa and so on.




Housing first resulted in an average 53% decrease in public money spent per person. It is, as far as cost-benefit goes, one of the most wildly successful social programs in human history.

The fact that you think there's any radical left policies in the US shows you need to go easy on the Koolaid.

Hell, the fact that you accept OP at face value, and don't recognize them as a consistently pro trump poster in both this and the conspiracy subforum makes me think you need to go easy on the Koolaid.



So sorry for being taking off blinders and having the respect to not be narrow-minded enough to immediately dismiss someone's genuine opinion and hide from it by not discussing it and allowing it to fester. I've always believed that we cannot hide from tough issues however extreme but create a respectful and open dialog that leads to an understanding to all views and therfore leads to real progress


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199053 - 02/22/23 11:38 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Bro, you didn't take off blinders. You put blinders on by refusing to look at the context.

It is not "hiding from a tough issue" to recognize that OP has and will always support Trump, no matter what. It is also not "hiding from a tough issue" to point out that OP is, more or less, talking out of his ass.

You know what is "hiding from a tough issue", though? Saying you also don't support the far left while being unable to name a single example of far left policy, and after being prodded into naming one of the most successful anti-homeless programs in history, ignoring that inconvenient success story and reiterating that you cannot support the far left, which you also cannot define, but sure can blame for the actions of the far right, which to you seem completely justified as long as they are in response to some mythical, undefined, "far left".

Quit hiding.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199060 - 02/22/23 11:44 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

You really think the homeless crisis has been solved in California and elsewhere? It's not even a new idea it's a continuation of failed housing projects that fail to comprehensively address the issue. I work for habitat for humanity and there's a very important reason we give these people a hand up rather than a hand out.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199076 - 02/22/23 11:52 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

I was waiting for somebody to break out Antifa. The boogeyman of the right.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199079 - 02/22/23 11:53 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Places with housing first programs in California have less homeless than places without housing first programs.

So yes, this seems like a very effective solution that should be scaled up as soon as possible.

Unless you're of the opinion that something that is not immediately 100% effective in all cases, regardless of scale, should be ignored.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199102 - 02/22/23 12:06 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

That's funny because everything I've read says that the homeless crisis only seems to continue to ballon and is only propped up by inflated numbers of simply housing homeless rather than addressing the issue. It's alot like how you can look at decreasing incarnation rates by simply not incarcerating criminals without addressing the the actual problem of crime. I truely don't believe housing first policies will work or is sustainable over time and certainly not scaled up without a more comprehensive hands on outreach and probably needs a best of both worlds solution rather than a unilaterally left approach.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199110 - 02/22/23 12:10 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
propped up by inflated numbers of simply housing homeless




So by giving the homeless homes they are propping up the numbers.



--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199118 - 02/22/23 12:16 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
That's funny because everything I've read says that the homeless crisis only seems to continue to ballon and is only propped up by inflated numbers of simply housing homeless rather than addressing the issue. It's alot like how you can look at decreasing incarnation rates by simply not incarcerating criminals without addressing the the actual problem of crime. I truely don't believe housing first policies will work or is sustainable over time and certainly not scaled up without a more comprehensive hands on outreach and probably needs a best of both worlds solution rather than a unilaterally left approach.




Yeah, the homelessness crisis is an ongoing problem in a country where the average price of a home mortgage now costs 55% of the average paycheck (up from ~35% three years ago), where the government creates policy under the assumption that the average home mortgage costs 30% of the average paycheck, and where the last time housing cost more than 40% of a paycheck it led to the worst economic disaster since the 1930s.

I wonder why there is a housing crisis. It's clearly caused by a program focused on housing people that exists in maybe a dozen cities of the US. No other possible causes, none. It's all the housing first programs.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199121 - 02/22/23 12:19 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Why does half the homeless population in the country live in California where folks are now facing an extreme threat to public peace and safety because of it?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199125 - 02/22/23 12:21 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Because it's a lot harder to die of exposure on a beach when it's 70 out than in a -20 snowstorm in Michigan?

"I wonder why homeless people go to where the weather is nice?" Really?

Not to mention: California has the most humane laws when it comes to homeless people, so...I wonder why the homeless people go to where they are treated the least shittily? Man, this is a real stumper. If I had to choose between Cali (nice beaches, public benefits, nice people) and Missouri (shit weather, shit policies, literally a felony to be homeless on state property and you will get fucked with by police daily), I really don't know if I could decide. Nice beaches and humane treatment, or shitty mountains and police harassment. HMMMMMM.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199135 - 02/22/23 12:25 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

But are those polices solving the problem or simply allowing it to fester? There's alot of places with year round temperate weather buddy.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199142 - 02/22/23 12:29 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Places with housing first programs in California have less homeless than places without housing first programs.

So yes, this seems like a very effective solution that should be scaled up as soon as possible.




Too lazy to retype, feel free to cycle through the conversation a few times if you wanna go in circles.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199149 - 02/22/23 12:32 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Funny how policy makers are now back peddling a bit and going the opposite way from your diluted idealistic views that are an object failer that simpley enables and bandaids the problem.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199159 - 02/22/23 12:37 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Yawn.

Way to take this topic way off topic.

Was Housing First a Biden policy? No.

Is it a congressional law? No.

So how does it relate back to the OP's desire to vote for Trump based on "insane" Biden policy disasters.

Or is it simply the one topic you feel well-versed in to discuss on a Mushroom Political Forum?


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199163 - 02/22/23 12:43 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199166 - 02/22/23 12:46 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

This is pretty funny because "We need to address the root causes of homelessness" Is essentially a left-wing position, with the logical conclusion that we need more socialist policies.
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
... a more comprehensive hands on outreach and probably needs a best of both worlds solution



The right-wing solution to homelessness is "fuck em, let em die", you get that right?

Also you have it completely backwards when talking about antifa. Antifa started showing up in response to literal nazis marching on our streets, you remember that right? The whole idea that the left "going to far" forced conservatives to embrace fascism is complete bullshit.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199172 - 02/22/23 12:54 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Nope. The reason that blue states are at their wit's ends over crime is because common-sense solutions (gun control) are shot down by the right only to then hear them complain about lawlessness and crime and why aren't the left doing anything about it.

And examples of failing to condemn left wing extremism? Or are you talking out of your ass again and mis-remembering the rights failure to condemn Charlottesville, Jan. 6th, Sandy Hook, etc., etc., etc.?


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Lynnch]
    #28199175 - 02/22/23 12:58 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

The right wing solution to homelessness is more punative what you describe would be considered extreme to most. Even so were already seeing left wing policy makers who pushed for the coddling soft touch to backpeddle slightly and add more of a punitive measure or more accurately more rigidity to these programs while still acting with compassion and understanding. Like I said I think there needs to be a more best of both worlds approach. Also I never said that renewed rise of antifa which was created as a response nazi and true fascism in Europe almost 100 years ago which is an extreme step backwards or atleast a quagmire rehashing issues from almost a century ago. Has not remained a purely anti fascist movement but has co-oped left wing extremism and was shocking and caused a similar extremist reaction from the alt right and should be chastised by both sides rather than viewed as in anyway progressive.


Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (02/22/23 01:04 PM)


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199179 - 02/22/23 01:01 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Randar said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Nope. The reason that blue states are at their wit's ends over crime is because common-sense solutions (gun control) are shot down by the right only to then hear them complain about lawlessness and crime and why aren't the left doing anything about it.

And examples of failing to condemn left wing extremism? Or are you talking out of your ass again and mis-remembering the rights failure to condemn Charlottesville, Jan. 6th, Sandy Hook, etc., etc., etc.?



I'm in full support of common sense gun control policies that are effective. California has the strictest gun control in the nation and I view it as nonsensical and overbearing with little of the intended effect...a failed policy. Moreover there are many on the extreme left who push to dig even deeper to an outright ban of firearms. Another example of extreme policies that go too far.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199184 - 02/22/23 01:04 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Quote:

Randar said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Nope. The reason that blue states are at their wit's ends over crime is because common-sense solutions (gun control) are shot down by the right only to then hear them complain about lawlessness and crime and why aren't the left doing anything about it.

And examples of failing to condemn left wing extremism? Or are you talking out of your ass again and mis-remembering the rights failure to condemn Charlottesville, Jan. 6th, Sandy Hook, etc., etc., etc.?



I'm in full support of common sense gun control policies that are effective. California has the strictest gun control in the nation and I view it as nonsensical and overbearing with little of the intended effect...a failed policy. Moreover there are many on the extreme left who push to dig even deeper to an outright ban of firearms.




As they should. The Second Amendment has been horribly misinterpreted. I think at the very least, the right wing should recognize that you can't have the same gun laws applying to rural and urban areas. It doesn't make sense and it just doesn't work.

You know what would be nice? We've been living with these ridiculous gun laws for so long, and being told that tighter gun laws/gun bans won't curb gun violence. Why not have a temporary experiment? 2 years with no guns? (I know it's not practical to implement) You want to know why? Because it would prove all those anti-gun control theories completely wrong.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199188 - 02/22/23 01:09 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Again you people keep pushing and pushing to outright ban firearms and the right has stated again and again that that is the absolute line in the sand that will trigger a revolution but you refuse to listen. I promise you prohibition does not work and will only create a black market for criminal elements and create more nutjobs to perpetrate acts of violence and an extreme driver to subvert these laws. Sounds like a great experiment to try out when the softer polices haven't even been all that effective but only serve to create a false illusion of safety.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199189 - 02/22/23 01:11 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Again you people keep pushing and pushing to outright ban firearms and the right has stated again and again that that is the absolute line in the sand that will trigger a revolution but you refuse to listen. I promise you prohibition does not work and will only create a black market for criminal elements and create more nutjobs to perpetrate acts of violence and an extreme driver to subvert these laws. Sounds like a great experiment to try out when the softer polices haven't even been all that effective.




Yet you look around the world and see that it does work. It's a head-in-the-sand approach that we take here.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199191 - 02/22/23 01:13 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Those places don't have nearly the size and scope and criminal culture that is inherent to American culture. :facepalm:


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199196 - 02/22/23 01:15 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Those places don't have nearly the size and scope and criminal culture that is inherent to American culture. :facepalm:






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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199200 - 02/22/23 01:18 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Not to mention a large deep culture that believes it as a mandatory right enshrined in the constitution which actually is somewhat justified. These people aren't fucking joking around when they say cold dead hands. :facepalm:


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199201 - 02/22/23 01:20 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Ah yes, the ol' I have rights but no responsibilities argument.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199204 - 02/22/23 01:24 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Regardless of all of this, and getting back to the OP, none of these "left wing" policies you are bringing up are on the table right now. People on the left can want anything, but if it's not serious and isn't brought up in the legislation, then the point is moot.

So what policy disasters has the current administration been in charge of that would make someone want to vote for Trump?


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199237 - 02/22/23 01:49 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Funny how policy makers are now back peddling a bit and going the opposite way from your diluted idealistic views that are an object failer that simpley enables and bandaids the problem.




Funny how you can't actually name a failed policy, and when presented with the effects of the policy (a 53% reduction in per Capita spending on homeless people) you ignore the clear success and continue calling it a failed policy.

Let's look at your other examples.

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Crime is currently worse in red states than in blue states, and the largest increases in crime rates over the last few years have all been in trump voting counties. Crime in Cali is up like 30% and crime in Arkansas is up 50%. Kevin McCarthy's district in California is one of the most violent and crime-ridden areas in the state.

There is nothing to condemn, apart from right wing hypocrisy and the enlightened centrist bullshit that you are pushing contrary to the actual facts on the ground.

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Not to mention a large deep culture that believes it as a mandatory right enshrined in the constitution which actually is somewhat justified. These people aren't fucking joking around when they say cold dead hands. :facepalm:




Then these people need to have their hands become cold and dead. I'm fucking sick of right wingers just saying that we won't follow the laws, and then threatening to shoot people that tell them to follow the laws. It's bullshit and it needs to end. If you can't deal with the laws, then leave or deal with the consequences of not following the laws.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199249 - 02/22/23 01:59 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

And while it's true they aren't joking around, they also aren't a serious threat. Maybe a threat to the donut I'm eating, but not to anything else.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199265 - 02/22/23 02:14 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Exactly. Let them stop joking around, we'll have Sherman do his march again. They tried not joking around once, we taught them their lesson, apparently they need a refresher on what happens when you start shooting at the US government.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199270 - 02/22/23 02:18 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Exactly. Let them stop joking around, we'll have Sherman do his march again. They tried not joking around once, we taught them their lesson, apparently they need a refresher on what happens when you start shooting at the US government.




Ashli Babbitt learned that lesson...

:pointmade:


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199278 - 02/22/23 02:22 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Funny how policy makers are now back peddling a bit and going the opposite way from your diluted idealistic views that are an object failer that simpley enables and bandaids the problem.




Funny how you can't actually name a failed policy, and when presented with the effects of the policy (a 53% reduction in per Capita spending on homeless people) you ignore the clear success and continue calling it a failed policy.

Let's look at your other examples.

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Crime is currently worse in red states than in blue states, and the largest increases in crime rates over the last few years have all been in trump voting counties. Crime in Cali is up like 30% and crime in Arkansas is up 50%. Kevin McCarthy's district in California is one of the most violent and crime-ridden areas in the state.

There is nothing to condemn, apart from right wing hypocrisy and the enlightened centrist bullshit that you are pushing contrary to the actual facts on the ground.

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Not to mention a large deep culture that believes it as a mandatory right enshrined in the constitution which actually is somewhat justified. These people aren't fucking joking around when they say cold dead hands. :facepalm:




Then these people need to have their hands become cold and dead. I'm fucking sick of right wingers just saying that we won't follow the laws, and then threatening to shoot people that tell them to follow the laws. It's bullshit and it needs to end. If you can't deal with the laws, then leave or deal with the consequences of not following the laws.



Crime is up across the board so thanks for admitting that. Your also skewing the statistics by not taking into account many other factors. The rural states maybe seeing an staggering increase in crime from like nothing to 50% more than nothing but California far and away is not only the most populous state has a grossly disproportionate crime rate and as such probably the most criminal acts out of any place in the country. When it comes to crime even one act is too many so when you look at the shocking amount of victims in the state of California most people view it as a serious out of hand problem that greatly effects many. I even go further that the degenerate rhetoric was see from these more extreme left wing politicians like the insane mischaracterization and misinterpretation of quotes of civil right icons like John Lewis like "getting into good trouble" and other malarkey like the attack on law and order and indeed the state in general applauded during the BLM riots and the fan flaming years leading up to the boil over and their soft on crime policies and knee capping of police are just as much to blame as the rights refusal to do right by folks and fund address and reform criminal justice in their states. Color me crazy.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199282 - 02/22/23 02:23 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Exactly. Let them stop joking around, we'll have Sherman do his march again. They tried not joking around once, we taught them their lesson, apparently they need a refresher on what happens when you start shooting at the US government.



Why do you think this violent rhetoric is okay or in anyway justified? Do you have any concept of war?


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199291 - 02/22/23 02:28 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Funny how policy makers are now back peddling a bit and going the opposite way from your diluted idealistic views that are an object failer that simpley enables and bandaids the problem.




Funny how you can't actually name a failed policy, and when presented with the effects of the policy (a 53% reduction in per Capita spending on homeless people) you ignore the clear success and continue calling it a failed policy.

Let's look at your other examples.

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Crime is currently worse in red states than in blue states, and the largest increases in crime rates over the last few years have all been in trump voting counties. Crime in Cali is up like 30% and crime in Arkansas is up 50%. Kevin McCarthy's district in California is one of the most violent and crime-ridden areas in the state.

There is nothing to condemn, apart from right wing hypocrisy and the enlightened centrist bullshit that you are pushing contrary to the actual facts on the ground.

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Not to mention a large deep culture that believes it as a mandatory right enshrined in the constitution which actually is somewhat justified. These people aren't fucking joking around when they say cold dead hands. :facepalm:




Then these people need to have their hands become cold and dead. I'm fucking sick of right wingers just saying that we won't follow the laws, and then threatening to shoot people that tell them to follow the laws. It's bullshit and it needs to end. If you can't deal with the laws, then leave or deal with the consequences of not following the laws.



Crime is up across the board so thanks for admitting that. Your also skewing the statistics by not taking into account many other factors. The rural states maybe seeing an staggering increase in crime from like nothing to 50% more than nothing but California far and away is not only the most populous state has a grossly disproportionate crime rate and as such probably the most criminal acts out of any place in the country. When it comes to crime even one act is too many so when you look at the shocking amount of victims in the state of California most people view it as a serious out of hand problem that greatly effects many. I even go further that the degenerate rhetoric was see from these more extreme left wing politicians like the insane mischaracterization and misinterpretation of quotes of civil right icons like John Lewis like "getting into good trouble" and other malarkey like the attack on law and order and indeed the state in general applauded during the BLM riots and the fan flaming years leading up to the boil over and their soft on crime policies and knee capping of police are just as much to blame as the rights refusal to do right by folks and fund address and reform criminal justice in their states. Color me crazy.





Okay, you're crazy. The BLM protests were, proven multiple times, mostly peaceful. Even when you did have some violence against police (I don't condone it), I can understand it as African Americans are disproportionately abused by police officers. Yet, in the right wing media, you'd think all hell was breaking loose.

Now compare that to Jan. 6th where it wasn't at all peaceful and the violence against police officers is driven by a group of simpletons being lied to about losing an election. Right wing media states it was peaceful and more like a tourist visit.

Please tell me more about our left-wing extremists...


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199295 - 02/22/23 02:28 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Crime is still like way lower than it was 25 years ago. Again, that has nothing to do with leftist policy since we don't have any.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199302 - 02/22/23 02:31 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

I'm sure if your property was destroyed or you lost a family member in those riots you wouldn't view them as at all peaceful. That alone is a pretty extreme view. You say you don't condone violence but then fully condone the actions and rhetoric that led to it. :flowstone:


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199307 - 02/22/23 02:33 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
I'm sure if your property was destroyed or you lost a family member in those riots you wouldn't view them as at all peaceful. That alone is a pretty extreme view. You say you don't condone violence but then fully condone the actions and rhetoric that led to it. :flowstone:




Please explain. I don't condone any of the actions that led to it. The murder of George Floyd was awful and atrocious. I think your ignorance is showing...


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28199309 - 02/22/23 02:33 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Crime is still like way lower than it was 25 years ago. Again, that has nothing to do with leftist policy since we don't have any.



Funny how in my state we spearheaded criminal justice reform for the whole country. Most the policies work but alot of them just created and enabled more crime. But yeah the left wing policies aren't to blame at all for that.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199312 - 02/22/23 02:34 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Randar said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
I'm sure if your property was destroyed or you lost a family member in those riots you wouldn't view them as at all peaceful. That alone is a pretty extreme view. You say you don't condone violence but then fully condone the actions and rhetoric that led to it. :flowstone:




Please explain. I don't condone any of the actions that led to it. The murder of George Floyd was awful and atrocious. I think your ignorance is showing...



But you condone the "protests" that led to riots and looting.:facepalm:


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199316 - 02/22/23 02:36 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Randar said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
I'm sure if your property was destroyed or you lost a family member in those riots you wouldn't view them as at all peaceful. That alone is a pretty extreme view. You say you don't condone violence but then fully condone the actions and rhetoric that led to it. :flowstone:




Please explain. I don't condone any of the actions that led to it. The murder of George Floyd was awful and atrocious. I think your ignorance is showing...




And you talk about the loss of life during the protests...many of those were due to police shooting at protesters. Not ok.

But, I digress, I forget that on the right, protests due to police brutality must be quashed. But if police say you can't enter a federal building, well then, they must be attacked and beaten.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199317 - 02/22/23 02:36 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

. I promise you prohibition does not work and will only create a black market for criminal elements and create more nutjobs to perpetrate acts of violence




  Prohibition work great great if what you are prohibiting is technically complicated and hard to manufacture . If you can grow it or make it in your bathtub with simple shit it doesn't .  It doesn't work for drugs .
  Works great for belt fed machine guns though, works great for hand grenades , works for shoulder fired missiles ,  it would work for semi auto rifles too .


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199321 - 02/22/23 02:37 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Quote:

Randar said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
I'm sure if your property was destroyed or you lost a family member in those riots you wouldn't view them as at all peaceful. That alone is a pretty extreme view. You say you don't condone violence but then fully condone the actions and rhetoric that led to it. :flowstone:




Please explain. I don't condone any of the actions that led to it. The murder of George Floyd was awful and atrocious. I think your ignorance is showing...



But you condone the "protests" that led to riots and looting.:facepalm:




Yes. They had every right to protest the treatment of African Americans in this country by police. Every right. Violence, that is not condoned. And it's not true to say that the protests themselves led to the violence. It was the reaction of police and others to the protests that led to the violence in many, if not all, of the cases.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199326 - 02/22/23 02:39 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

. I promise you prohibition does not work and will only create a black market for criminal elements and create more nutjobs to perpetrate acts of violence




  Prohibition work great great if what you are prohibiting is technically complicated and hard to manufacture . If you can grow it or make it in your bathtub with simple shit it doesn't .  It doesn't work for drugs .
  Works great for belt fed machine guns though, works great for hand grenades , works for shoulder fired missiles ,  it would work for semi auto rifles too .




Tsk tsk...you forget about the size and scope and criminal culture that is inherent to American culture. :smirk:


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199347 - 02/22/23 02:47 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

It's delusional to think machine guns or hand grenades or rockets aren't easy to manufacture :facepalm:


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199357 - 02/22/23 02:50 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Funny how policy makers are now back peddling a bit and going the opposite way from your diluted idealistic views that are an object failer that simpley enables and bandaids the problem.




Funny how you can't actually name a failed policy, and when presented with the effects of the policy (a 53% reduction in per Capita spending on homeless people) you ignore the clear success and continue calling it a failed policy.

Let's look at your other examples.

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Crime is currently worse in red states than in blue states, and the largest increases in crime rates over the last few years have all been in trump voting counties. Crime in Cali is up like 30% and crime in Arkansas is up 50%. Kevin McCarthy's district in California is one of the most violent and crime-ridden areas in the state.

There is nothing to condemn, apart from right wing hypocrisy and the enlightened centrist bullshit that you are pushing contrary to the actual facts on the ground.

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Not to mention a large deep culture that believes it as a mandatory right enshrined in the constitution which actually is somewhat justified. These people aren't fucking joking around when they say cold dead hands. :facepalm:




Then these people need to have their hands become cold and dead. I'm fucking sick of right wingers just saying that we won't follow the laws, and then threatening to shoot people that tell them to follow the laws. It's bullshit and it needs to end. If you can't deal with the laws, then leave or deal with the consequences of not following the laws.



Crime is up across the board so thanks for admitting that. Your also skewing the statistics by not taking into account many other factors. The rural states maybe seeing an staggering increase in crime from like nothing to 50% more than nothing but California far and away is not only the most populous state has a grossly disproportionate crime rate and as such probably the most criminal acts out of any place in the country. When it comes to crime even one act is too many so when you look at the shocking amount of victims in the state of California most people view it as a serious out of hand problem that greatly effects many. I even go further that the degenerate rhetoric was see from these more extreme left wing politicians like the insane mischaracterization and misinterpretation of quotes of civil right icons like John Lewis like "getting into good trouble" and other malarkey like the attack on law and order and indeed the state in general applauded during the BLM riots and the fan flaming years leading up to the boil over and their soft on crime policies and knee capping of police are just as much to blame as the rights refusal to do right by folks and fund address and reform criminal justice in their states. Color me crazy.




I think you might actually be crazy, crime in California is about average for the nation.

You wanna see serious and out of hand crime? Go to Alabama. Or Tennessee. Or Arkansas. Or Arizona. Or Missouri. Or South Carolina. Those are some of the most violent states in the nation.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199362 - 02/22/23 02:52 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
It's delusional to think machine guns or hand grenades or rockets aren't easy to manufacture :facepalm:




Yeah, okay, I am no longer speaking rhetorically when I say I think you might be crazy. You clearly have no idea what is happening.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199372 - 02/22/23 02:57 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

What's happening is you continue to deny facts of reality


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199393 - 02/22/23 03:11 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Wanna know how I know you've done literally no gunsmithing in your life, and quite likely never done any sort of metalwork in your life?

You think that making a machine gun or a grenade is easy.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199503 - 02/22/23 04:33 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), which tracks firearm mortality rates by state, in 2020, the latest year with recorded data, there were 4,164 gun deaths in Texas, compared with 3,449 in California.

When taking into account that California has around 9 million more residents that Texas, according to U.S. Census Bureau estimates, as of July 2022, this means California had an average of 8.5 gun deaths per 100,000 people, while Texas has 14.2 per 100,000.

This means that, according to the 2020 figures, Texas's gun death rate is around 67 percent higher than that of California's, per 100,000 people.



Thems the facts, and thats the reality.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199517 - 02/22/23 04:41 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

It's delusional to think machine guns or hand grenades or rockets aren't easy to manufacture :facepalm:




  Legally they are . Illegally not at all .
  If you would like to prove me wrong I'll give you 10g's in cash if you build me a 20 mm Vulcan . I'll drive to your house and pick it up .


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199529 - 02/22/23 04:49 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Wanna know how I know you've done literally no gunsmithing in your life, and quite likely never done any sort of metalwork in your life?

You think that making a machine gun or a grenade is easy.




  If you have a mechanical engineering degree , 200k worth of machine shop shit on your garage and many years of work experience it wii be easier .
  If your that kid that shot up the school in Uvalde though or any of the cops that tried to stop him , fuck no .


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199530 - 02/22/23 04:50 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Wanna know how I know you've done literally no gunsmithing in your life, and quite likely never done any sort of metalwork in your life?

You think that making a machine gun or a grenade is easy.




A grenade is probably relatively easy. A gun, not so much. I say that as a guy who could make a gun in my machine shop that sits about 45 feet from this PC. I'd rather not try either though.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28199542 - 02/22/23 05:00 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Has anyone  ever tried to sell you a Grenade ?
    Probably not because prohibition works for shit like that .


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28199549 - 02/22/23 05:05 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Wanna know how I know you've done literally no gunsmithing in your life, and quite likely never done any sort of metalwork in your life?

You think that making a machine gun or a grenade is easy.




  If you have a mechanical engineering degree , 200k worth of machine shop shit on your garage and many years of work experience it wii be easier .
  If your that kid that shot up the school in Uvalde though or any of the cops that tried to stop him , fuck no .




As someone who has no relevant degree but has messed around with a CnC, as well as having a hefty collection of....questionable...literature, I'm reasonably certain that I could have a working open bolt blowback SMG within a week. Given said machine shop with 200k of equipment, of course. Quality is a whole different beast, I doubt I'd even be able to keep a consistent fire rate rounded to the hundreds, and accuracy is gonna be shit.

This is basically par for the course when it comes to homemade guns, though. Good bit of literature, including some SERE manuals I got my hands on that talk about making zip guns behind enemy lines, and they all say that their designs, while functional, are also useless past like ten feet.

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Wanna know how I know you've done literally no gunsmithing in your life, and quite likely never done any sort of metalwork in your life?

You think that making a machine gun or a grenade is easy.




A grenade is probably relatively easy. A gun, not so much. I say that as a guy who could make a gun in my machine shop that sits about 45 feet from this PC. I'd rather not try either though.




Guns are way easier. Making a grenade shell is easy, any can full of nails will do. Making the explosives that turn the shell into an actual grenade, though? There's a reason that while the average serial killer has an IQ in the 80s, bombers have IQs in the 140s. You make a mistake, you end up like that incel that tried to make TATP in his trailer home. No hands.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199582 - 02/22/23 05:23 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

One can piece together guns quite easily.  Upper and lower recivers can be Lego like. Same goes for explosives; advanced demo course I took was enlightening on the ease. I do think there is a correlation between criminality and less intelligence, though.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199593 - 02/22/23 05:34 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Wanna know how I know you've done literally no gunsmithing in your life, and quite likely never done any sort of metalwork in your life?

You think that making a machine gun or a grenade is easy.




  If you have a mechanical engineering degree , 200k worth of machine shop shit on your garage and many years of work experience it wii be easier .
  If your that kid that shot up the school in Uvalde though or any of the cops that tried to stop him , fuck no .




As someone who has no relevant degree but has messed around with a CnC, as well as having a hefty collection of....questionable...literature, I'm reasonably certain that I could have a working open bolt blowback SMG within a week. Given said machine shop with 200k of equipment, of course. Quality is a whole different beast, I doubt I'd even be able to keep a consistent fire rate rounded to the hundreds, and accuracy is gonna be shit.

This is basically par for the course when it comes to homemade guns, though. Good bit of literature, including some SERE manuals I got my hands on that talk about making zip guns behind enemy lines, and they all say that their designs, while functional, are also useless past like ten feet.

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Wanna know how I know you've done literally no gunsmithing in your life, and quite likely never done any sort of metalwork in your life?

You think that making a machine gun or a grenade is easy.




A grenade is probably relatively easy. A gun, not so much. I say that as a guy who could make a gun in my machine shop that sits about 45 feet from this PC. I'd rather not try either though.




Guns are way easier. Making a grenade shell is easy, any can full of nails will do. Making the explosives that turn the shell into an actual grenade, though? There's a reason that while the average serial killer has an IQ in the 80s, bombers have IQs in the 140s. You make a mistake, you end up like that incel that tried to make TATP in his trailer home. No hands.





I can turn a grenade shell in about 20 minutes. CNC homie.

A gun is way more intricate. Just the programming alone. The tooling is way more tricky too. Gundrills aren't cheap and since you are going to go a far distance in Z your lathe has to be spot on. It is just a much trickier process. Then a significant amount of it has to be done on the mill. Some of the milled parts then have to go on the lathe, some of the lathe cut parts on the mill. It's not even close between a gun and grenade, the grenade is way easier.

Yes, packing the grenade is the tricky part.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28199598 - 02/22/23 05:38 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Has anyone  ever tried to sell you a Grenade ?
    Probably not because prohibition works for shit like that .




I've never been sold a grenade but I have thrown one. I worked on my friends farm as a kid and the dude would get super smashed towing us around as we bailed hay. He was a Vietnam vet. One time he took us to his house. It was nearly dusk and we had bailed all day, he told us to wait outside. He came back with an ammo box full of grenades. We took turns each tossing a grenade into the field from behind one of those giant rectangle haybales. It was pretty sweet. The dude was crazy as fuck though.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28199647 - 02/22/23 06:15 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

He had to be because taking ordinance as a souvenir is a big time no no in the UCMJ....even back then. You were probably throwing M67s depending on when homeboy got out. Amazing you didn't start a fire. The concusion of a grenade will take your breath away, definely not like the movies. I shot defilade with a Mark 19, belt fed 40mm grenades, rate of fire is around 300 a minute.


--------------------
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Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (02/22/23 06:16 PM)


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28199719 - 02/22/23 07:12 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

I have no idea the model or type. This farm was way out in the middle of nowhere. The guy was always trashed as far as I knew. He ran the farm as a hobby but was an electrician by day. From what I can tell he had a huge collection of guns, basically a WW3 prepper.

It was an intense and unforgettable experience to say the least.


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28199736 - 02/22/23 07:19 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Trump is a very mixed bag, he has positives and negatives IMO. Its insane that he wants to make drug dealing a capital offence, he increased the nationl debt a hell of lot, just like most presidents and he is very divisive because of his narracastic personality and he could not accept the results of the election when he lost, he is a sore loser.

On the other hand I give him credit for some good things he did. He increased oil reserves and was a proponent of the keystone pipeline, so I doubt there would be the gas price problem were he in power now. He got the Abraham Accords signed, which helped towards peace in the middle east between Israel and Arab states. He didn't start another war, unlike most presidents in my lifetime, and was actually going to pull out of Afghanistan properly (unlike the shit show Biden made of the situation). His foreign policy was pretty libertarian which I like and I very much doubt Putin would have had the balls to do what he has done under Trump, but thats just a guess and an opinion. 

Can't really think of any other net positives or terrible negatives but I'm sure there is more.

All in all a very mixed bag,  but I understand how people can both like him and dislike him for various reasons.


Edited by thetruthsohelp (02/22/23 07:27 PM)


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28199745 - 02/22/23 07:24 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
One can piece together guns quite easily.  Upper and lower recivers can be Lego like. Same goes for explosives; advanced demo course I took was enlightening on the ease. I do think there is a correlation between criminality and less intelligence, though.




These are things that are extremely easy to get if you're the right person, but becoming the right person is not extremely obvious.

Honestly, that's why I think the bare bones minimum gun regulations would actually take care of most of the problem. A single face to face interaction with someone paying the slightest bit of attention would create enough of a social obstacle to dissuade those who are currently having social problems. Someone who's decided to shoot up a school and is buying a gun is probably hopped up on so much adrenaline they wouldn't be able to handle a 15 minute chat about the weather.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28200214 - 02/23/23 05:58 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Exactly. Let them stop joking around, we'll have Sherman do his march again. They tried not joking around once, we taught them their lesson, apparently they need a refresher on what happens when you start shooting at the US government.




Somebody here said the military would join the other side because of trans athletes and stuff.  LOL. There are definitely some extreme right members of the military, but the top echelons are mainstream who would defend the constitution. There are no more Curtis Lemay's. It's a goofy right wing fantasy that our military is going turn and follow MTG.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28200219 - 02/23/23 06:05 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
On the other hand I give him credit for some good things he did. He increased oil reserves and was a proponent of the keystone pipeline, so I doubt there would be the gas price problem were he in power now.




You should do a little more research on Keystone XL. Asides from it having little to no bearing on gasoline prices, it imports foreign oil.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera] * 1
    #28200230 - 02/23/23 06:22 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
On the other hand I give him credit for some good things he did. He increased oil reserves and was a proponent of the keystone pipeline, so I doubt there would be the gas price problem were he in power now.




You should do a little more research on Keystone XL. Asides from it having little to no bearing on gasoline prices, it imports foreign oil.




Fair enough, I have not done any kind of in depth research on it.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: thetruthsohelp] * 1
    #28200505 - 02/23/23 10:51 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Also, I filled up for 3.06 per gallon two days ago...what gas price problem? Apart from a roughly eight month period in 2020, gas hasn't been this cheap since like 2012ish. Or when Clinton was in office.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28200656 - 02/23/23 12:43 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Even diesel is on a sharp downswing. Which is odd heading into spring.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: christopera]
    #28200712 - 02/23/23 01:26 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)



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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28200759 - 02/23/23 01:52 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Classic conservatives


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28200827 - 02/23/23 02:48 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Dudes were throwing grenades loaded with black powder like, 500 years ago.  I'm sure something of significant effect could be produced with nitrocellulose.  I don't think actual high-explosives are really necessary at all.  Antipersonel mines like claymore do require high explosives, I guess because of the geometry of the casing?


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28200843 - 02/23/23 03:03 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

It depends. Claymore have a small amount of C4/ like 600 grams...with approximately 700 ball bearings. The shape is deadly as well, as it directs the blast("front toward enemy") to  inflict high fatality, casualty radius.....placement is paramount

The improvised anti personal mines I typically made were from expended ammo cans, 1.5 pounds C4 (about same as a claymore), with an inch or so of cardboard (it delays the millisecond needed to propell the contents effectively), then brass, linkage, and rocks....det cord and blasting cap. Adding glass is wicked because microscopic shards form and chances are no surgery will be able to get them out. You basically want to shaped charge (although wider)the blast to the intended location, or the place of an ambush.

Past military grade explosives. There are several other garden variety available to substitute; I will leave it at that. Part of the reason why McVeigh inflicted so much damage was his placement and how he directed the blast towards the buildings.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (02/23/23 03:30 PM)


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 2
    #28200865 - 02/23/23 03:44 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Why does half the homeless population in the country live in California where folks are now facing an extreme threat to public peace and safety because of it?




Because California is where people who are down on their luck go. This is a staple of American culture. Jack Kerouac. Grapes of Wrath. Hollywood. Blah blah.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28200898 - 02/23/23 04:05 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Dudes were throwing grenades loaded with black powder like, 500 years ago.  I'm sure something of significant effect could be produced with nitrocellulose.  I don't think actual high-explosives are really necessary at all.  Antipersonel mines like claymore do require high explosives, I guess because of the geometry of the casing?




Keep in mind that something like a third of the artillery shells fired during WWI did not explode, and picrates are much better explosives than black powder.

Reliability is also a big factor when it comes to individual use. When you fire ten thousand shells in an hour, a third of them not exploding isn't a big deal, maybe one or two will still clobber a dude in the head. When you wanna make a statement with a bomb, a one in three chance to fail is...not great. That's actually why blasting caps are generally pretty hard to get a hold of. Explosives are reasonably easy to find, but C4 without a detonator is just toxic play-doh. If you set it on fire, it will just burn hot for a while and poison anyone who breathes the smoke.

And, of course, the other factor is all of the math involved in a successful bombing. Demolitions is basically chemistry, civil engineering, and materials science all in one. Buildings are designed to stay standing. People are soft and squishy and absorb overpressure surprisingly well as a result. As tripalot said, McVeigh moved his van a few feet to one side, and that day would have gone very differently. Probably just as splattery, I'm guessing every single person in the building would have made a big mess in their pants, but they would have walked out.

Well, and he also knew what he was doing when it came to making it. ANFO is still preeeeety easy to fuck up. Hell, I think it was the times square bomber who just put containers of fertilizer and propane tanks in his car, not even realizing that you're supposed to mix them together.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: koods]
    #28200903 - 02/23/23 04:08 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Not everything is some woody Guthrie song or whatever your talking about koods.



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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28201005 - 02/23/23 04:55 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Remember a while back when LAPD blew up their own bomb truck in a neighborhood?  That was just a bunch of coke can sized flash powder salutes some dipshits made in a garage.  They probably just had paper casings but they almost certainly could have fragmented a hollow piece of metal.  I don't know anything about demolition and probably most other people don't either but all I was saying is that a grenade seems pretty simple in it's construction.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28201084 - 02/23/23 05:39 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
It depends. Claymore have a small amount of C4/ like 600 grams...with approximately 700 ball bearings. The shape is deadly as well, as it directs the blast("front toward enemy") to  inflict high fatality, casualty radius.....placement is paramount

The improvised anti personal mines I typically made were from expended ammo cans, 1.5 pounds C4 (about same as a claymore), with an inch or so of cardboard (it delays the millisecond needed to propell the contents effectively), then brass, linkage, and rocks....det cord and blasting cap. Adding glass is wicked because microscopic shards form and chances are no surgery will be able to get them out. You basically want to shaped charge (although wider)the blast to the intended location, or the place of an ambush.

Past military grade explosives. There are several other garden variety available to substitute; I will leave it at that. Part of the reason why McVeigh inflicted so much damage was his placement and how he directed the blast towards the buildings.





Wait why were you making anti personnel mines?


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: koods]
    #28201089 - 02/23/23 05:43 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Well, and he also knew what he was doing when it came to making it. ANFO is still preeeeety easy to fuck up.




ANFO is difficult to detonate. I don’t think there are many ANFO bombers that have blown themselves up.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28201173 - 02/23/23 06:27 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Remember a while back when LAPD blew up their own bomb truck in a neighborhood?  That was just a bunch of coke can sized flash powder salutes some dipshits made in a garage.  They probably just had paper casings but they almost certainly could have fragmented a hollow piece of metal.  I don't know anything about demolition and probably most other people don't either but all I was saying is that a grenade seems pretty simple in it's construction.




Not a bad example of my point: 5,000 lbs of kablooey results in 17 injuries and non-catastrophic damage to two dozen houses.

That is really not a lot of damage for 5,000 lbs of explosives. I mean, the point was to avoid damage, but still.

Now if that truck was made with hardened steel armor and the explosives had some actual brisance, the casualties would have been much worse.

So, if we're talking Terminator pipe bombs, those would look less like fragmentation grenades and more like someone shotgunned a beer, but the beer was a piece of pipe. Steel pipe is generally fairly soft and malleable, and black powder might not actually detonate depending on the conditions, so you'll just have a nasty structural failure and rapid depressurization--much less dangerous than fragmentation.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28201196 - 02/23/23 06:35 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Make your vessel from cast iron then.  And those things were flash powder, not black powder.  I think the detonation velocity is pretty significant(ly faster than black powder) for whatever that's worth.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: koods]
    #28201197 - 02/23/23 06:35 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
It depends. Claymore have a small amount of C4/ like 600 grams...with approximately 700 ball bearings. The shape is deadly as well, as it directs the blast("front toward enemy") to  inflict high fatality, casualty radius.....placement is paramount

The improvised anti personal mines I typically made were from expended ammo cans, 1.5 pounds C4 (about same as a claymore), with an inch or so of cardboard (it delays the millisecond needed to propell the contents effectively), then brass, linkage, and rocks....det cord and blasting cap. Adding glass is wicked because microscopic shards form and chances are no surgery will be able to get them out. You basically want to shaped charge (although wider)the blast to the intended location, or the place of an ambush.

Past military grade explosives. There are several other garden variety available to substitute; I will leave it at that. Part of the reason why McVeigh inflicted so much damage was his placement and how he directed the blast towards the buildings.





Wait why were you making anti personnel mines?





0351 Military Occupational Specialty


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28201212 - 02/23/23 06:42 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

These Marines will use breaching and infiltration techniques when the infantry is on the offensive and employ demolition and other countermeasures when in a defensive position.




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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28201343 - 02/23/23 07:42 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Make your vessel from cast iron then.  And those things were flash powder, not black powder.  I think the detonation velocity is pretty significant(ly faster than black powder) for whatever that's worth.




Well then we should add "casting iron" to the list of required skills.

Flash powder is funky, in that the detonation velocity of flash powder depends on the container, the particle size distribution, the mixing of particles, the packing density, heck even the crushing potential of the materials themselves...lots of stuff to consider. Powder explosives are generally messy for this reason, and this is why I refer to black powder as maybe an explosive...only properly made black powder under ideal conditions actually explodes, usually it just burns.

Further, we are looking at different purposes. Black powder, or modern equivalents like cordite/gunpowder are designed to produce a significant overpressure wave that builds relatively gradually, because the point is to push a projectile out of a barrel. Picrates, which led to the development of TNT and eventually RDX/HMX, which is C4, creates a much smaller overpressure wave which appears much more rapidly, specifically to maximize the impulse of the explosion and promote fragmentation. Flash powder is designed to create a minimal overpressure wave, and release as much energy as possible in the form of light.

A lot of this stuff is fairly simple (though I am oversimplifying), but a lot of it is not very intuitive. If it was obvious, we'd have a lot more bombings, and probably fewer shootings.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28201365 - 02/23/23 07:52 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Why couldn't you just buy some cast iron?  I'm sure someone could cap off an 1.5" fitting easily enough without special tools or training


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28201392 - 02/23/23 08:03 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Boston Bomber made buying stuff that looks like an explosive shell along with the other materials a bit more complicated. Much like buying a cart full of matches, road flares, and ether will get you a knock from the DEA.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28201459 - 02/23/23 08:36 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

I've purchased many cast iron fittings over the years without any trouble.  Aside from the trouble inherent to working with cast iron, that is


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28201479 - 02/23/23 08:44 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

I was the guy who humpped full gear with two satchel charges. Each one was about 24lbs of C4. I was the last one on a staggered column. Depended on cover fire for breaching and making mouse holes. Its not the most transferable skill in the civilian world, but alas.

Most explosives are a solid that turns into a gas, and the energy released thereof. TNT at detonation is more of a "poof!". C4 is more of a "crack!"

I will say demolition is fun, but after three or four hours on a range it can get tedious....thats when it's really dangerous..... besides a hot zone, disarming mines was the most scary AF moments for me. Had to disarm Bouncing Betties with EOD before in an active mine zone in the Persian Gulf. The three prongs that stick out of the sand that take roughly 7lbs of pressure to go off. Sergeant thought it would be fun to eat our rations in the active mine field, fuck that guy.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (02/23/23 08:46 PM)


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28201482 - 02/23/23 08:47 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Fuck

That

Guy


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28201493 - 02/23/23 08:55 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Boston Bomber made buying stuff that looks like an explosive shell along with the other materials a bit more complicated. Much like buying a cart full of matches, road flares, and ether will get you a knock from the DEA.




We all have a pressure cooker for our cultivation hobby, so....


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28201575 - 02/23/23 09:41 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Most explosives are a solid that turns into a gas



Not solid>liquid>gas but solid>gas? ie. sublimation. :strokebeard:


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28201579 - 02/23/23 09:43 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Trump is such a sociopath. It’s so blatantly obvious the only thing he cares about is attention, and the sheep still flock. Nuts



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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: koods]
    #28201602 - 02/23/23 09:55 PM (10 months, 27 days ago)

It’s just fucking hilarious that trump distributed water that has been individually stored inside plastic bottles for 13 years. To a town worried about its water quality.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: koods]
    #28201925 - 02/24/23 04:59 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Why does half the homeless population in the country live in California where folks are now facing an extreme threat to public peace and safety because of it?




Because California is where people who are down on their luck go. This is a staple of American culture. Jack Kerouac. Grapes of Wrath. Hollywood. Blah blah.




Yeah, when I was at the University of Illinois I got in a conversation with "sleeping bag bum" as we called him, when I wouldn't give him money. I felt kind of bad when he told me he was a Vietnam vet, but I was supporting myself washing dishes. He said that the homeless people at the U of I tended to stay there in the warmer months, because there were liberal college students, then went to Florida in the winter.

There is no easy answer to homelessness, but IMO the two biggest issues are mental health, which Reagan dismantled, and affordable housing, which they don't build because it's not profitable use of real-estate. We need affordable housing for the working poor, and super-affordable housing for the people not making it at all in our system. But people with money, don't like affordable housing near them.

I can see both sides of the issue, as I sometimes get irritated at the panhandlers with their signs at busy intersections, and think they are probably making more money than I do killing my body at an Amazon warehouse at age 65. Other times I'm in a better mood and give them a couple bucks.

We obviously need to address the issue better than we have, and even semi-unsuccessful programs are a start, and better than doing nothing.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: koods]
    #28201932 - 02/24/23 05:08 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Trump is such a sociopath. It’s so blatantly obvious the only thing he cares about is attention, and the sheep still flock. Nuts






Even Republicans and Fox News are seeing the light.

But he has the currently legal right to solicit funds for voter fraud or the next election, and is using all the money to pay his legal bills.

It's becoming increasingly clearer that effective avenue to fighting extremism (Trump, guns, whatever) in these capitalist United States is through lawsuits. Since I'm a pragmatist and not an idealist, OK whatever works.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28201934 - 02/24/23 05:11 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Speaking of lawsuits, a judge has ordered Trump to testify in a lawsuit brought by the two fbi agents the DOJ outed as having an affair, and leaking their texts. Lots of reasons to believe that they were targeted for harassment because they were anti trump.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28201936 - 02/24/23 05:14 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
It's delusional to think machine guns or hand grenades or rockets aren't easy to manufacture :facepalm:




Yeah, okay, I am no longer speaking rhetorically when I say I think you might be crazy. You clearly have no idea what is happening.



Does this guy think that every American has a chess to metalergy, machining, and volatile chemical production equipment?


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: koods]
    #28202003 - 02/24/23 06:44 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

I also read that the evidence in voting machine company vs Fox, Giuliani, et al, is so one sided that the judge may go with a summary judgement and forgo the trial. Apparently, the plaintiff's case is already proven by statements on record by Carlson, Hannity, and Fox executives. They were so worried about getting outflanked on the right and losing market shares to Newsmax and OANN that they threw caution to the wind.


--------------------
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28202007 - 02/24/23 06:46 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

The automatic weapons ban is one of the most successful gun control laws in American history


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28202009 - 02/24/23 06:48 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I also read that the evidence in voting machine company vs Fox, Giuliani, et al, is so one sided that the judge may go with a summary judgement and forgo the trial. Apparently, the plaintiff's case is already proven by statements on record by Carlson, Hannity, and Fox executives. They were so worried about getting outflanked on the right and losing market shares to Newsmax and OANN that they threw caution to the wind.




I’d really like to see this go to trial and have these cretins testify


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: koods]
    #28202036 - 02/24/23 07:12 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The automatic weapons ban is one of the most successful gun control laws in American history




I remember several good crime movies going back to the 60's and 70's that referenced the Massachusetts law that getting caught with a machine gun was an automatic life sentence.

A federal judge recently decided not to block Illinois' assault weapon magazine ban.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28202045 - 02/24/23 07:24 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Think that the SC may overturn that....I remember IL ban on handguns that got tossed. Now this is a magazine, so there may be a chance but practically, it takes no longer then 10 seconds to change out that clip. I don't see this doing anything other then making a shooter expend his ammo on more well placed shots.

Although I do advocate for gun rights
... I don't own any myself anymore...
With the exception of my grandpas shotgun. I understand trying to solve a problem with a law but there seems to be a sickness that you can't legislate away, but I understand the attempt.


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28202092 - 02/24/23 08:22 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Ten seconds is a very long time in a gunfight, especially when a number of shootings have recently been stopped by some extremely flamboyant men stomping on shooters with their heels.


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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28202095 - 02/24/23 08:23 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

That's at the long end. Practice can easily get that cut in half. Add your average response time from local police and one could easily pop off 100 rounds. Additionally mass shootings are not typically gun fights...and handguns are used more than anytype of firearm to commit the above.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (02/24/23 08:28 AM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28202099 - 02/24/23 08:28 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Given a choice between one five second break between bursts of gunfire and three five second breaks, I pick three.

And you're right, a mass shooting is not analogous to a gunfight. Most gunfights happen at long enough range that five seconds isn't enough time to charge the shooter and start a melee. In mass shootings, this appears a viable option on occasion.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28202106 - 02/24/23 08:30 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

The M16A1 was fully automatic, it was changed to the M16A2 which is a three round burst....meaning an ammo dump is not effective. Well placed shots are more effective than spray and pray.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (02/24/23 08:31 AM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28202116 - 02/24/23 08:37 AM (10 months, 27 days ago)

Well, I can only remember one mass shooter that was also trained infantry, and that was the cop killer in...Detroit or something?

Just like bombs, the kind of people that know how to do it right are generally not the kind of people doing the random shootings.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28205721 - 02/26/23 03:47 PM (10 months, 25 days ago)

In a situation where there is only one person armed with a firearm, it's pretty easy to manage your reloads, though.  Plus, a simple secondary firearm can make rushing a gunman suicide.

Sure, rushing a gunman is effective, but you need enough people willing to take the chance of being one of the killed instead of one of the heros.  Clip size changes the situation, but only as a matter of proportion.  Either way, it's fucked for anyone trying to rush the gunman.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Enlil]
    #28205746 - 02/26/23 04:06 PM (10 months, 25 days ago)

More reloads means more breaks to run away as well, and that happening is almost a statistical certainty.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28206087 - 02/26/23 08:49 PM (10 months, 25 days ago)

Is a shame to waste the ammo, though.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28206564 - 02/27/23 10:04 AM (10 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Well, I can only remember one mass shooter that was also trained infantry, and that was the cop killer in...Detroit or something?

Just like bombs, the kind of people that know how to do it right are generally not the kind of people doing the random shootings.



What dewd something like 1/3 of all mass shooters are military trained including the first modern mass shooter the Texas bell tower shooter or the 1949 Camden NJ rampage and early shooters like racist black panther Mark Essex who went on a multi-day rampage and used a very smart rifle a ruger .44 magnum a semi automatic gas operated rotating bolt rifle to "kill honkies" in 1973 and was basically only stopped because he ran out of ammo and ran out from his roof top cover where he was shot from a helicopter by police sharpshooters to commit suicide with only two rounds left.


Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (02/27/23 10:10 AM)


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