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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28199047 - 02/22/23 11:29 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
AOC is radical and was a bartender...a waitress as well! She isn't even that close to the "left" of most European governments.



We've also seen an extreme rise regressive backwards ideals such as fascism and communism in Europe thanks in part to the stoking from American politics by trump the alt right and the extreme left with very real and dangerous ramifications for folks there. We are the example to the world and by leading a poor one thru shitty devisive bullshit politics we give other nefarious actors in less stable countries an outlined playbook to use. How many times have we now seen these people use trump cards around the world to attempt seize power or float complete bullshit? We have to recognize this as a major problem that should be put astop to.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199049 - 02/22/23 11:34 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
No it hasn't polices like housing first and other far left legislation fail to address the root problems of homelessness and therefore have only led to an ever balloning homeless crisis and a hemorrhaging waste of public funds in those places. Same thing with how getting hard on crime flat out didn't work the new age getting soft on crime doesn't work either although there are like I said certain aspects to both these issues that have worked and should be held onto but there needs to be an admission of those failures by policey makers. We absolutely do have radical left political bodies although many hide behind a facade that is vague and leaves aspects open to personal interpretation and no open condemnation of these negative detrimental and extremist aspects by these groups such as antifa and so on.




Housing first resulted in an average 53% decrease in public money spent per person. It is, as far as cost-benefit goes, one of the most wildly successful social programs in human history.

The fact that you think there's any radical left policies in the US shows you need to go easy on the Koolaid.

Hell, the fact that you accept OP at face value, and don't recognize them as a consistently pro trump poster in both this and the conspiracy subforum makes me think you need to go easy on the Koolaid.



So sorry for being taking off blinders and having the respect to not be narrow-minded enough to immediately dismiss someone's genuine opinion and hide from it by not discussing it and allowing it to fester. I've always believed that we cannot hide from tough issues however extreme but create a respectful and open dialog that leads to an understanding to all views and therfore leads to real progress


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199053 - 02/22/23 11:38 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Bro, you didn't take off blinders. You put blinders on by refusing to look at the context.

It is not "hiding from a tough issue" to recognize that OP has and will always support Trump, no matter what. It is also not "hiding from a tough issue" to point out that OP is, more or less, talking out of his ass.

You know what is "hiding from a tough issue", though? Saying you also don't support the far left while being unable to name a single example of far left policy, and after being prodded into naming one of the most successful anti-homeless programs in history, ignoring that inconvenient success story and reiterating that you cannot support the far left, which you also cannot define, but sure can blame for the actions of the far right, which to you seem completely justified as long as they are in response to some mythical, undefined, "far left".

Quit hiding.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199060 - 02/22/23 11:44 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

You really think the homeless crisis has been solved in California and elsewhere? It's not even a new idea it's a continuation of failed housing projects that fail to comprehensively address the issue. I work for habitat for humanity and there's a very important reason we give these people a hand up rather than a hand out.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199076 - 02/22/23 11:52 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

I was waiting for somebody to break out Antifa. The boogeyman of the right.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199079 - 02/22/23 11:53 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Places with housing first programs in California have less homeless than places without housing first programs.

So yes, this seems like a very effective solution that should be scaled up as soon as possible.

Unless you're of the opinion that something that is not immediately 100% effective in all cases, regardless of scale, should be ignored.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199102 - 02/22/23 12:06 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

That's funny because everything I've read says that the homeless crisis only seems to continue to ballon and is only propped up by inflated numbers of simply housing homeless rather than addressing the issue. It's alot like how you can look at decreasing incarnation rates by simply not incarcerating criminals without addressing the the actual problem of crime. I truely don't believe housing first policies will work or is sustainable over time and certainly not scaled up without a more comprehensive hands on outreach and probably needs a best of both worlds solution rather than a unilaterally left approach.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199110 - 02/22/23 12:10 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
propped up by inflated numbers of simply housing homeless




So by giving the homeless homes they are propping up the numbers.



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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199118 - 02/22/23 12:16 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
That's funny because everything I've read says that the homeless crisis only seems to continue to ballon and is only propped up by inflated numbers of simply housing homeless rather than addressing the issue. It's alot like how you can look at decreasing incarnation rates by simply not incarcerating criminals without addressing the the actual problem of crime. I truely don't believe housing first policies will work or is sustainable over time and certainly not scaled up without a more comprehensive hands on outreach and probably needs a best of both worlds solution rather than a unilaterally left approach.




Yeah, the homelessness crisis is an ongoing problem in a country where the average price of a home mortgage now costs 55% of the average paycheck (up from ~35% three years ago), where the government creates policy under the assumption that the average home mortgage costs 30% of the average paycheck, and where the last time housing cost more than 40% of a paycheck it led to the worst economic disaster since the 1930s.

I wonder why there is a housing crisis. It's clearly caused by a program focused on housing people that exists in maybe a dozen cities of the US. No other possible causes, none. It's all the housing first programs.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199121 - 02/22/23 12:19 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Why does half the homeless population in the country live in California where folks are now facing an extreme threat to public peace and safety because of it?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199125 - 02/22/23 12:21 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Because it's a lot harder to die of exposure on a beach when it's 70 out than in a -20 snowstorm in Michigan?

"I wonder why homeless people go to where the weather is nice?" Really?

Not to mention: California has the most humane laws when it comes to homeless people, so...I wonder why the homeless people go to where they are treated the least shittily? Man, this is a real stumper. If I had to choose between Cali (nice beaches, public benefits, nice people) and Missouri (shit weather, shit policies, literally a felony to be homeless on state property and you will get fucked with by police daily), I really don't know if I could decide. Nice beaches and humane treatment, or shitty mountains and police harassment. HMMMMMM.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199135 - 02/22/23 12:25 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

But are those polices solving the problem or simply allowing it to fester? There's alot of places with year round temperate weather buddy.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199142 - 02/22/23 12:29 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Places with housing first programs in California have less homeless than places without housing first programs.

So yes, this seems like a very effective solution that should be scaled up as soon as possible.




Too lazy to retype, feel free to cycle through the conversation a few times if you wanna go in circles.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28199149 - 02/22/23 12:32 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Funny how policy makers are now back peddling a bit and going the opposite way from your diluted idealistic views that are an object failer that simpley enables and bandaids the problem.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199159 - 02/22/23 12:37 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Yawn.

Way to take this topic way off topic.

Was Housing First a Biden policy? No.

Is it a congressional law? No.

So how does it relate back to the OP's desire to vote for Trump based on "insane" Biden policy disasters.

Or is it simply the one topic you feel well-versed in to discuss on a Mushroom Political Forum?


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199163 - 02/22/23 12:43 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199166 - 02/22/23 12:46 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

This is pretty funny because "We need to address the root causes of homelessness" Is essentially a left-wing position, with the logical conclusion that we need more socialist policies.
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
... a more comprehensive hands on outreach and probably needs a best of both worlds solution



The right-wing solution to homelessness is "fuck em, let em die", you get that right?

Also you have it completely backwards when talking about antifa. Antifa started showing up in response to literal nazis marching on our streets, you remember that right? The whole idea that the left "going to far" forced conservatives to embrace fascism is complete bullshit.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28199172 - 02/22/23 12:54 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Nope. The reason that blue states are at their wit's ends over crime is because common-sense solutions (gun control) are shot down by the right only to then hear them complain about lawlessness and crime and why aren't the left doing anything about it.

And examples of failing to condemn left wing extremism? Or are you talking out of your ass again and mis-remembering the rights failure to condemn Charlottesville, Jan. 6th, Sandy Hook, etc., etc., etc.?


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Lynnch]
    #28199175 - 02/22/23 12:58 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

The right wing solution to homelessness is more punative what you describe would be considered extreme to most. Even so were already seeing left wing policy makers who pushed for the coddling soft touch to backpeddle slightly and add more of a punitive measure or more accurately more rigidity to these programs while still acting with compassion and understanding. Like I said I think there needs to be a more best of both worlds approach. Also I never said that renewed rise of antifa which was created as a response nazi and true fascism in Europe almost 100 years ago which is an extreme step backwards or atleast a quagmire rehashing issues from almost a century ago. Has not remained a purely anti fascist movement but has co-oped left wing extremism and was shocking and caused a similar extremist reaction from the alt right and should be chastised by both sides rather than viewed as in anyway progressive.


Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (02/22/23 01:04 PM)


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trump (moved) [Re: Randar]
    #28199179 - 02/22/23 01:01 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Randar said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Its relates to failed left wing policies that were to extreme and caused a similarly extreme reaction by the right. Folks living in California Oregon and elsewhere deeply blue states are simpley fed up and at thier wits end with the reality of facing issues of crime and homelessness that continue to be totally out of hand and has only been used as ammo to the right and is eventuallygoing to lead to a change of tone on the left to these policies. Just as the applause or unwillingness to condemn of left wing extremism has shocked many across the political spectrum and is only finally being admonished by both sides after alot of folks were hurt. This is what's being discussed.




Nope. The reason that blue states are at their wit's ends over crime is because common-sense solutions (gun control) are shot down by the right only to then hear them complain about lawlessness and crime and why aren't the left doing anything about it.

And examples of failing to condemn left wing extremism? Or are you talking out of your ass again and mis-remembering the rights failure to condemn Charlottesville, Jan. 6th, Sandy Hook, etc., etc., etc.?



I'm in full support of common sense gun control policies that are effective. California has the strictest gun control in the nation and I view it as nonsensical and overbearing with little of the intended effect...a failed policy. Moreover there are many on the extreme left who push to dig even deeper to an outright ban of firearms. Another example of extreme policies that go too far.


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