Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,851
Last seen: 1 hour, 6 minutes
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28240169 - 03/21/23 06:39 PM (10 months, 2 days ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDisoRDeR
motional
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28240391 - 03/21/23 08:16 PM (10 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
scientific endeavors designed to describe the amazingly intricate complexity of the physical world, and to define and describe the truth therein, are essential to comprehending and interacting with that world in a responsible manner.

scientific endeavors seeking to enable modification of man and the natural world, to enable a transhuman fourth industrial revolution where man and machine become one, where man assumes control of his own evolution via synthetic means, where biologigy is radically changed, these types of activities must have guardrails.





Maybe we need to weather the impacts of our experimentation and get a good look at the outcomes a few times before we can find the collective motivation to put limits on our individual efforts broadly. Historical and observational research regarding the impacts of our actions seems like a natural thing for some humans to do.

Quote:

man must decide if he wants to live with or without the existance of a non-human moral objective standard, this will determine the general purpose of human life as a whole. these guardrails have the potential to serve and remind man that he is not G-d




There is a lot to unpack in this statement. I'm curious about what a non-human moral objective standard is and how we might come to collective agreement on it. I'm also doubtful about abstracting a purpose of human life as a whole, but it sounds like fun. What could go wrong?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28240690 - 03/22/23 12:51 AM (10 months, 2 days ago)

I think that if science has the technology to do so they should, mitigating risks and hazards is also a quintessential part of that.

This said, predictions are not impervious to mistake and I acknowledge that.

I'm not sure yet how to describe the benefit of taking such risks, but I think it is easier to judge with context of the particular situations involved.

Take pacemakers, hearing aids or titanium hip replacements for example, they're technically a fusion of man and technology  and from what I gather the development and implementation of this technology in particular, was overall beneficial.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: Kickle]
    #28241001 - 03/22/23 09:44 AM (10 months, 2 days ago)

Quantifying the word seems necessary since nature can be taken to mean everything including humans and the actions and results of humans which makes the word pointless. One must suppose there is a point in it's usage. It may vary slightly from use to use but it generally indicates that which forms without the work of humans.

That being said, I think the fair meaning should be a little foggy. If science is the process by which a human might observe the material world, describe specific phenomena (a river for instance), postulate correlating attributes and forces (inclination and downward force/gravity) that dictate the phenomena, we have the basics of science that can be used to conduct experiments.

Seeing that the water is flowing through a constricted area we might constrict it further and notice the water rise. A group of beavers might produce the same result and yet it's considered totally natural.

I bring this up because it suggests humans have been using science to change nature for a very long time so I suppose you have a more specific use in mind.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: Kickle]
    #28241016 - 03/22/23 09:57 AM (10 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Bend don't break? Why?



That's actually a family motto of mine.

Cassidy..

Bend don't break.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDisoRDeR
motional
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #28241466 - 03/22/23 01:57 PM (10 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
some of us are very busy and good
others make no effort - they do pick low hanging fruit and never clean up after themselves (they are living in a post apocalyptic movie of themselves).




Another day, another snowfall. I'm better at keeping the driveway clear than the bedroom floor. Hosting others is often what it takes to get my scrub on.

It is interesting to see where we are motivated to effort. I'm not sure which efforts should be encouraged, nor which should be contained, thought it's probably worth taking a good look at our vicinity.

Low hanging fruit leaves more time for movement in other directions. Maybe we risk bending our trees so low they break, or we cease to take our tall shape to reach them. Maybe they aren't our trees, to tie this branch back to the OP.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28241589 - 03/22/23 03:40 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

good answer mr. tree


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28249856 - 03/27/23 07:24 PM (9 months, 27 days ago)

a non-human moral objective standard means a reality where G-d exists!

what is the purpose of life without G-d?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28249867 - 03/27/23 07:31 PM (9 months, 27 days ago)

how much longer do humans need to experiment and do observational research?

to what end? 

where is the finish line?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28250287 - 03/28/23 01:20 AM (9 months, 27 days ago)

Sometimes it's an effort not to do something haha.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #28250330 - 03/28/23 03:18 AM (9 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
how much longer do humans need to experiment and do observational research?

to what end? 

where is the finish line?



there is no finish line, each planet we visit is a new Pandora's box
we each, not just the scientists, must always keep learning, which means facing uncertainty.

or if everything is just a repeat of everything else that is already known (by staying inside some conceptual fencing), then we still discover new problems within the fragments and factors of even the most traditional understandings.

This is partly because everything is impermanent, changing, shifting, even the solid marbles change, steel rusts, glass breaks, and we are back to working with dust.

But also it is our nature, to stop noticing what does not change, and to only notice what stands out from the unchanging background.

So what do you think?

The trouble with proselytism, for those who have found god and now feel they must spread the love, is that people (whom they claim to love (unconditionally))  become the new obstacles, and the new unknowns emerge from the minds you wish to change to benefit from your insights.

Then you must begin your own observational research, on those people but also on yourself, since there is no better way to understand people than to understand yourself.

There is a saying about entering heaven and the eyes of a child, and it is not about pretending to be innocent.

It is about being fresh, playful, non-judgemental, and inquisitive.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28261126 - 04/03/23 07:47 PM (9 months, 20 days ago)

i do not need your mind to change to benefit my insights!  every individual has a choice on how they choose to perceive things!  collectively, these perceptions are reflected in the world! G-d will not violate free will! a gift that allows every individual to make a connection!

human existence is impermanent! G-d is not impermanent!  do you wish to be an ouroboros?  that is the uncertainty that you are playing with!

a child is absent of filters, authentic and vulnerable!  through this authentic and vulnerable lens, laking of filters, there is an ability to perceive the world in a way where mortality can be left behind!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #28261142 - 04/03/23 07:57 PM (9 months, 20 days ago)

this is what the transhumanists are seeking to achieve artifically!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28261485 - 04/04/23 03:56 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

ok then


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28261606 - 04/04/23 07:04 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

The trouble with proselytism, for those who have found god and now feel they must spread the love, is that people (whom they claim to love (unconditionally))  become the new obstacles, and the new unknowns emerge from the minds you wish to change to benefit from your insights.




Would you agree these days the amount of religious proselytism is tiny (microscopic?) compared the proselytism of the social justice movement?  People talk about giving black people money for slavery reparations with the same tone as passionate religious fervor.  I'm constantly being told I must believe in their way of thinking, and if I don't, I'm an enemy - AKA obstacle.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28261623 - 04/04/23 07:17 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

In the midst of it are some flickerings of good ideas, some apparently selfless motivations, and for the most part a sense of belonging to a team of holier than thou bible thumpers with a slightly different set of commandments, and a smaller bible.

Blunt instruments all of them.

Keep your corner clear and if the Gestapo comes to your door, you know nothing, alright?

let the angel of death pass.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28262249 - 04/04/23 03:04 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Sweet emotion..?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28262542 - 04/04/23 06:21 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

when an idea is removed from society it creates a vacuum.  when G-d is removed from the world, something else will fill the vacuum.

take the american flag out of the classroom, and the pride flag will fill that.  take G-d out of the classroom, and some idol will fill that.  take Christianity (for example) out of the classroom, which says that man is a composite of body and soul and the soul is a substantial form of the body, and transgenderism is going to fill that vacuum, which says that man is is a duality between body and soul and the soul and the body don't have any real relation to one another and they can be in opposition!

at this point, putting the genie back into the bottle is unlikely!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28262547 - 04/04/23 06:24 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
how do you measure age?



Based on data?




Human Aging Is the End-Product of Our Developmental Program

Quote:

Summary: A new study reports aging may not be a result of accumulative damage to the body, but instead is the result of “design” flaws in our DNA that orchestrates the development of single cells into an adult organism.

Source: University of Birmingham

A new study published in Genome Biology has challenged the traditional view that aging is a result of the accumulation of damage to the body’s hardware, such as the molecular damage to cells caused by oxidative stress.

Instead, the study suggests that aging is primarily a result of design flaws in the software of our bodies—the DNA code that orchestrates the development of a single cell into an adult organism.

The study considers the question, why does aging happen uniformly when current models work on the assumption that we accumulate “damage” randomly? If we imagine human development as the product of a sort of computer program encoded in the DNA, the paper suggests that aging is not an accumulation of damage to the hardware, but a process driven by flaws in the software, a radical departure from damage-based theories that until now have prevailed in aging research.

The study’s authors propose a model of aging as the outcome of the developmental software program and reflected in shifting cellular information states throughout the life course. The model explains why closely related species age at radically different rates, and it explains the major genetic, dietary, and pharmacological manipulations of aging in animals.

...






Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: if science has “matured” to the point where it “can” change nature, should it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28262632 - 04/04/23 07:03 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
when an idea is removed from society it creates a vacuum.  when G-d is removed from the world, something else will fill the vacuum.

take the american flag out of the classroom, and the pride flag will fill that.  take G-d out of the classroom, and some idol will fill that.  take Christianity (for example) out of the classroom, which says that man is a composite of body and soul and the soul is a substantial form of the body, and transgenderism is going to fill that vacuum, which says that man is is a duality between body and soul and the soul and the body don't have any real relation to one another and they can be in opposition!

at this point, putting the genie back into the bottle is unlikely!



you are looking at it as defending your territory.
you feel insecure
I am sorry you feel that your stuff is threatened.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Science corrupts/perverts/exploits nature... HidingInPlainSight 1,190 17 01/24/04 04:12 PM
by NiamhNyx
* The Religion of Today: SCIENCE.
( 1 2 all )
SkorpivoMusterion 2,935 27 08/31/04 10:56 AM
by BlueCoyote
* Science and the 5 senses faslimy 1,670 8 05/25/06 07:19 AM
by psyka
* Einstein A Father of Science Believed in GOD...
( 1 2 3 all )
BleedingSickness 6,076 42 10/07/02 02:00 PM
by Zahid
* The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality
( 1 2 3 all )
gettinjiggywithit 6,633 42 03/17/08 03:25 AM
by 764hero
* Science as a vice
( 1 2 3 all )
ShroomismM 2,783 41 11/25/04 08:13 PM
by Mixomatosis
* science, religion, and philosophy Huehuecoyotl 1,621 15 01/28/05 10:05 AM
by Droz
* "Convenient" Commingling of Science Terms
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 3,806 44 02/13/12 02:02 AM
by OrgoneConclusion

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,089 topic views. 0 members, 12 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 13 queries.