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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28164026 - 01/30/23 09:12 AM (11 months, 21 days ago)

i was 1 year old then but ive seen them 7 times.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: mushboy]
    #28164079 - 01/30/23 09:52 AM (11 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I don't want to get into a flap with you over it, but I gotta say that your comment made me a bit soar.  I don't know feather your intent was to hurt my feelings, but I'd like to settle this in one fell swoop.



This quacks me up, but toucan play this game.

Quote:

mushboy said:
country music?
:awedisgust:

you done flew the coop son



Country music is fowl.

Ok this getting unpheasant and hawkward, some of these puns a bit of ostrich (a stretch)


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28164080 - 01/30/23 09:53 AM (11 months, 21 days ago)

im going to get high:flyhigh:


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
    #28164235 - 01/30/23 11:35 AM (11 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
First, there is nothing "ancient" about floppy discs.  Second, planes have always flown using ancient technology.  Believe it or not, birds have been using such technology for millions of years before Boeing existed.





Oh they're ancient alright, you need to accept it. Maybe it just bothers you that if you were to accept it, that it would also mean you are ancient.


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Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: budmanman]
    #28164237 - 01/30/23 11:38 AM (11 months, 21 days ago)

An·cient
/ˈān(t)SHənt/
adjective

1.
belonging to the very distant past and no longer in existence:
"the ancient civilizations of the Mediterranean"

Since they are still in existence, they are not ancient.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
    #28164251 - 01/30/23 11:47 AM (11 months, 21 days ago)

Damn and I thought the pyramids of Giza were ancient but they still exist so they are a modern marvel.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: budmanman]
    #28164277 - 01/30/23 12:03 PM (11 months, 21 days ago)

I'm sure this isn't the last time you'll be wrong.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
    #28164571 - 01/30/23 03:35 PM (11 months, 21 days ago)

:hahthatsrich:


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
    #28164610 - 01/30/23 04:04 PM (11 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
An·cient
/ˈān(t)SHənt/
adjective

1.
belonging to the very distant past and no longer in existence:
"the ancient civilizations of the Mediterranean"

Since they are still in existence, they are not ancient.




Yeah but the civilization that they are from are non-existent, therefore the structers are ancient, duh. Ancient structures do not mean non-existent structures

[mod edit: removed flame]


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28164622 - 01/30/23 04:11 PM (11 months, 21 days ago)

The civilization that created 8 inch floppy disks is a modern one, homie.  It is very much still in existence.  The Air Force used them up until a few years ago.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a29539578/air-force-floppy-disks/


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
    #28164809 - 01/30/23 05:57 PM (11 months, 21 days ago)

And now they're an ancient relic of the past just like you.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: budmanman]
    #28164838 - 01/30/23 06:17 PM (11 months, 21 days ago)

As far as Im concerned our civilization as we know it died at the turn of the last century.

:pointmade:


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28164909 - 01/30/23 07:13 PM (11 months, 21 days ago)

I blame 911


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Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Offlineasterix
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: budmanman]
    #28170007 - 02/02/23 09:44 PM (11 months, 17 days ago)

Where'd you find that definition?



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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #28176358 - 02/07/23 02:36 PM (11 months, 13 days ago)

Nations which pay more in overall taxes witness greater quality of life, healthcare, etc. so there isn't really much use in lowering taxes ubiquitously.

However, we do know there is significant inequality in the amounts of taxes different tax brackets pay given that lower income families periodically pay out of their subsistence funds (I.e., funds needed for basic human needs). Likewise, many rich businesses have ways of evading local jurisdictions' tax laws through trans-national supply chains & off-shore processing zones.

Given these facts, it is reasonable (& I argue necessary for establishing human rights) to place considerably greater tax burden on the rich; lessening the taxes lower classes need to pay out of their subsistence pools.

Why won't this happen? Well, neoliberalism (the heart of post-industrial capitalism) has set forth global free-market policies which incentivizes companies to move to jurisdictions with the greatest economic-power-to-low-tax ratios (this is why the U.S. is so powerful; high value currency + low corporate tax).

I.e., the moment a nation raises corporate tax, their economy suffers; which can easily be taken advantage of in a fairly competitive global market. Businesses move to lower-taxed nations and their economic power allows them the mobility to do so where smaller companies cannot. Meanwhile, lower classes at the local level must compete for lower wages to prevent employers from moving to areas with even cheaper labour (tax-wise & minimum-wage-wise). This phenomenon has been termed the race to the bottom.

The solution in my - subjective, but arguably well-informed - opinion is to recognize the fundamental need to regulate the economy insofar as basic human rights are affected, which tends to be greater than most people who are subsumed under an individualistic capitalist culture tend to be convinced of by the dominant western culture. We need global market regulations so that individual nations don't feel pressured by international competitors to increase the income gap.

Neoliberalism (free market capitalism) must be restricted at the global level where basic human rights are concerned otherwise there is no way we will fairly & reasonably reduce taxes for the lower class without sacrificing the economic safety of an individual nation.

An example of such restriction would be to set a standardized global minimum wage that is pegged to the value of each nation's currency, and ensuring this minimum wage meets what is internationally recognized as basic subsistence needs for a family. This way workers cannot be exploited for their basic human needs. I.e, only their leisurely & non-essential resources can be leveraged over workers. People will be motivated by non-essential benefits, rather than existential desperation. Companies will then be at the mercy of governments and the people rather than the other way around as they will be reliant on happy workers who are paid an affordable minimum wage & reasonable taxes that don't take healthy & nutritious food off the table. We will then be able to raise corporate tax without the risk of companies relocating & crippling our economy.

:micdrop:


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Edited by Rhizomorph (02/07/23 02:55 PM)


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #28176371 - 02/07/23 02:48 PM (11 months, 13 days ago)

People say nations with higher taxes have a higher quality of life however any time you look up the rate of car ownership in these places its very low like under 40% so I am not sure how great of a life you can live if u can't even afford to take a drive up into the wilderness to go for a hike.


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Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: budmanman] * 1
    #28176386 - 02/07/23 02:56 PM (11 months, 13 days ago)

I don't know man, the stats don't lie and the quality of life metrics are fairly reliable at this point in time.

There's a lot of factors of course, but I think you're missing the rhetoric of the statistic I provided in this context


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Edited by Rhizomorph (02/07/23 02:57 PM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Rhizomorph] * 1
    #28176592 - 02/07/23 06:22 PM (11 months, 13 days ago)

Owning a car in Europe is dumb as fuck, you can take a bus or a train anywhere.

I'd even go so far as to say owning a car outside the US/Canada is kinda dumb, because no other government subsidizes gas so heavily. I was over in Europe a bit ago, and gas is like 6$ a gallon over there. Everything else is way cheaper, though. I was a little bit surprised, going shopping I spent less than half of what a week of food costs in the US.

Though, I will take issue with the idea that lower tax rates lead to companies moving there. This is only sometimes true. Sure, an Irish HQ was considered the corporate Gold Standard for a long time due to zero tax rates in Ireland, but that requires a well established international corporation that can afford to buy an extremely expensive plot of corporate HQ land in Ireland.

There was an interesting thing that happened in the midwest back in 2010. Minnesota and Wisconsin were, functionally, the exact same state. Literally, everything was the same. Average income, average happiness, average everything. Then, in 2010, Minnesota elected a democrat governor, I wanna say pawlenty? Who raised corporate tax raites and lowered personal tax rates. At the same time, Wisconsin elected Scott Walker, and began the path down to the gerrymandered alcoholic shithole it is today. Scott Walker, a republican, did the opposite: lowere corporate taxes, raised personal taxes, and started austerity politics.

Between 2010 and 2016, six fortune 500 companies moved their HQs out of Wisconsin and into Minnesota. Turns out that happier and healthier workers are more valuable than a few percent tax income.

edit

https://www.epi.org/publication/as-wisconsins-and-minnesotas-lawmakers-took-divergent-paths-so-did-their-economies-since-2010-minnesotas-economy-has-performed-far-better-for-working-families-than-wisconsin/

I think the companies moving HQs was referenced to there, I can't seem to find the OG article. Think it was rolling stone, maybe star tribune.


Edited by Kryptos (02/07/23 07:05 PM)


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28177469 - 02/08/23 10:45 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Though, I will take issue with the idea that lower tax rates lead to companies moving there. This is only sometimes true. Sure, an Irish HQ was considered the corporate Gold Standard for a long time due to zero tax rates in Ireland, but that requires a well established international corporation that can afford to buy an extremely expensive plot of corporate HQ land in Ireland.



I may have been somewhat oversimplifying. Organizations obviously don't just move to one country and exist solely in that jurisdiction (their HQ might but that's about it). Most companies of the sort exist as multi-national assemblages.

But, we have to recognize the mobility of these companies. You  insinuate that companies may not move to Ireland (Or mobilize certain assets & labour I should say) to Ireland because it requires being well-established and costs a lot. But that's the thing, the companies with the greatest power (to pay wages or not, to mobilize, to constrain the autonomy of individuals & policies) are the ones well established who can afford this. The price tag is worth it in the long run, especially when governments write up contracts under neoliberalism that guarantees these companies amnesty from any changes to the corporate tax code for X number of years.

In short, the biggest companies are in it for the long game, and they control asymmetrical sums of power and wealth that is said to "trickle down" to the labourer. This doesn't always play out without standardized minimum wages of the sort I mentioned before of course (or some other form of market regulation). The smaller companies who may be incentivized to stay based on the principle you mentioned simply have less capacity to pay their workers a living wage; especially if they wish to compete with these mobile companies :shrug:

The case with Wisconsin and Minnesota is interesting but I think global supply chains would tell a different story. Macroeconomics and microeconomics function almost blatantly differentially between the global north and south. I'm sure we can find examples all over the western sphere but I don't want the discussion around lowering taxes to subsumed under Eurocentric narratives. I think humans are naturally less tolerant towards economic exploitation when it is happening in our own backyards due to in-group biases & the West is able to make these small-scale changes due to the aforementioned economic power that allows us the power to act on this. This ability to act is contingent on lower corporate taxes nation-wide.

Looking at the question through macro-micro dialectic relationships ties apart the nuances between case examples and general phenomena:

Micro and Macro: The Economic Divide
Microsociology Versus Macrosociology

Wallerstein's World Systems is worth looking into as well; most modern economic and sociological analyses of economic inequality often look at the issue through a Worlds Systems lens as we simply cannot bifurcate local economics from world systems. Their inherent nature is to overlap & compete for power.

I generally agree with the democrats' approach, but we need global reforms for the democrats' approach to work ubiquitously. Otherwise we guarantee a perpetual existential free-for-all in the microcosm of the lowest social strata as people fight for basic needs. And as we all know: you cannot build a kingdom on quicksand. I acknowledge my left-leaning bias & loaded language in this paragraph of course.


Edited by Rhizomorph (02/08/23 11:12 AM)


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #28181955 - 02/11/23 08:53 AM (11 months, 9 days ago)



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