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OfflineMushyMom
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Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique * 3
    #28180201 - 02/09/23 09:27 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I’m using this as a running list of what I’ve been doing and what I’m going to change.  When I started out - things were going great until they weren’t.  So I’ve been trying to brainstorm every possible point of contamination.  I am thinking it’s falling somewhere in the grain prep and transfer from agar to grain and I’m trying to take a step back to look at everything I’m doing from technique to equipment to location. 

I took about 6 months off to regroup.  I made agar a few weeks ago and did transfers which are looking nice. My next step is to prep grain and I’m wanting to make sure I’m addressing everything and getting rid of bad habits I’ve picked up.

This is more for me to try to keep track and journal what I’m doing - but if you can follow along with my all over the place notes and have any constructive feedback - please share. 



Setup/steps/things I’ve tried

Items to address/concerns/possible solutions -

General SAB work-
1. Rushing
    1. Lack of time to focus
    2. Rough edges on arm holes scrape up skin - subconsciously trying to hurry to avoid contact
2. Workspaces
    1. Closet
        1. Carpet and clothes can hold mold spores - mini flood in May
        2. While there is no air flow - any movement in a small area can stir up contam
        3. Was working on lid of SAB due to lack of a large enough surface which is not ideal
    2. Desk area in bedroom
        1. Desk top not completely level
        2. Carpet presents same risk
        3. Airflow possible from heater and/or door
3. Sanitation
    1. Unsure if alcohol lamp is hot enough or if I am flaming long enough to kill possible contam
    2. Arm holes can scrape skin cells off arms into SAB

Grain Prep
Additional concerns:
1. Pressure Cooker -
    1. Tfal 23 quart PC. Goes to 15 PSI. 
    2. Currently bring up to 15 PSI - then vent for 10 minutes - then bring back to 15 PSI
    3. Is 10 minutes enough to fully vent?  Per instructions yes.
2. Grains
    1. Unsure if grains were completely dry before PCing
    2. Concerned that grains were PCd too long or not long enough
3. Equipment
    1. Currently using unmodified plastic lids
        1. Are these the right lids?
        2. Can contam get in or stay in rubber gasket?  If there is no rubber gasket - could they be getting in through the lid?
        3. How many cycles are plastic lids good for?

Possible changes to grain prep
1. Change to Presto?
2. Ensure grains have enough time to dry
3. Change to modified metal lids or modified plastic lids

Agar transfer to grain:
In addition to SAB concerns noted above
1. Are the jars and equipment wiped down before starting in SAB?
2. What is the ideal capacity of jars in a SAB?  Too many would reduce work space.  Is crowding in SAB an issue?
3. Have been cutting agar into small pieces - tic tac drop - before transfer.  Am I doing this incorrectly in a way that introduce more contam?
4. Are plates open too long during transfer if transferring from one plate to multiple jars? Currently closing in between - is that the best option?
5. Is scalpel being cleaned fully before working?
6. Is scalpel hovering during transfers?
7. Should I only work off one plate during SAB session to reduce chance of cross contamination
8. Are jars open too long during transfer?  Are they also being clam shelled correctly?

Fruiting stage:
1. Do coir and verm need to be stored sterile?
2. Currently rehydrating coir and verm in 5 gallon bucket with lid
    1. Adding boiling water
        1. Using electric kettle
        2. Adding 1 liter at a time
3. 6 quart shoeboxes - unmodified
4. 20 quart gasket tubs
    1. EZ dial holes drilled
    2. Lined with clear trash bags or white trash bags
5. Mix substrate and grain in a separate trash bag to ensure everything is completely mixed and then pour into prepped tub



Teks followed:
Agar - Instant pot - pressure is high enough to make agar https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27090797
Mixed with Bods

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22721954/vc/1#22721954

For oats -Bod

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=24126032&page=0&vc=1#24126032



Foomans WBS

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8508523

Reverse Foomans WBS

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24884022

For grain
Pasty’s tic tac drop

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22601023

Tubs - Pasty’s ez-dial tub with 20 quart sterlite tubs

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26140339/fpart/1/vc/1/nt/13


Not tried -yet Franks WBS

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080


**********************************
Changes already made:
Setup
1. Changed location to different house
    1. No carpet
    2. Glass covered table
    3. No airflow
    4. Open space
2. Added rubber gaskets to arm hole to reduce chance of irritation or skin cells entering environment

Agar transfer - Steps taken
1. Clean out SAB inside with alcohol
2. Clean off racks with soap and water, then alcohol
3. Add new scalpel blade to scalpel
4. Wipe off all items being used with alcohol
5. Place all items in SAB and spray entire area with alcohol.  Let sit for 30 minutes
6. Be conscious of hovering with scalpel over plates
7. Ensure clamshell on plates during transfer
8. Wear n94 mask while working in SAB
9. Allow for more time to do SAB work

Edited by MushyMom (02/09/23 10:02 PM)

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OfflineBrandyjbassgirl
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: MushyMom]
    #28180222 - 02/09/23 09:49 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by Brandyjbassgirl

Reason for deletion: I figured it out

Edited by Brandyjbassgirl (02/09/23 09:57 PM)

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OnlineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Brandyjbassgirl] * 1
    #28180229 - 02/09/23 09:58 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I like my grain tek better than bods if youre a visual learner.
I use wheat but the process is approximately the same.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28148316/vc/1#28148316

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
    #28180291 - 02/09/23 11:45 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Thank you for sharing your write up. I haven’t seen wheat out here but I like how you are drying your grain - especially since that was something I have been looking at.

I do think it’s also important to take climate into consideration - I kind of wish that teks could be broken up by climates. Like what works in Florida might not work in Montreal lol

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OnlineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28180298 - 02/10/23 12:10 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Thank you for sharing your write up. I haven’t seen wheat out here but I like how you are drying your grain - especially since that was something I have been looking at.

I do think it’s also important to take climate into consideration - I kind of wish that teks could be broken up by climates. Like what works in Florida might not work in Montreal lol




mostly rh is the main factor to consider. im from a very dry climate. 

wheat is cheap where im at. about 50lbs for 12$.  can be bought at animal feed stores. Chances are if you can buy bulk oats you can buy bulk wheat.  I didnt like how chaffy oats were but lots of people use them fine. 

the main issue youre gonna have is differences in the way people fruit.  Some people can just take the lid off their tub and fruit in in the open air without bruising.  You gotta kinda dial it in for yourself and learn how to manage your surface conditions.

theres a great tek for that. this has to be one of the most commonly visited teks on this forum and with good reason.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23999053/fpart/all/vc/1

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Invisibledowodenum
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: BeefSupremeJr] * 1
    #28180305 - 02/10/23 12:34 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Wow, comprehensive. Kudos for being so diligent.

I'll address a few that I know can help you:

Quote:

2. Rough edges on arm holes scrape up skin - subconsciously trying to hurry to avoid contact




Use some packing tape in straight strips around the circumference of the hole, uh... gloryhole style? That, or lightly hit the edges with a torch until they melt a little and the plastic blobs. Then they won't be so rough. I think people like to heat up a coffee can or similar and melt holes in their SABs (instead of using a saw) for this reason. It's possible to clean up the edges with a scalpel, but one little slip and suddenly you have a big crack in your shiny new SAB.

Quote:

1. Unsure if alcohol lamp is hot enough or if I am flaming long enough to kill possible contam




A propane torch will go faster, with the right nozzle. A nice piezo button-start one avoids having to dial the flame back and keep it going as you work.

For transfers, try a syringe needle jammed securely on the end of a long nail. Needles heat red hot in seconds via torch, compared to ~15 seconds for a #11 scalpel.

Quote:

2. Currently bring up to 15 PSI - then vent for 10 minutes - then bring back to 15 PSI
    3. Is 10 minutes enough to fully vent?  Per instructions yes.




Bring to boil without pressure, until steam is venting hard. Then vent 15-20 minutes. Then add the weight and bring to >15 PSI.

Quote:

1. Change to Presto?




Shouldn't be necessary. Consider adding some weight to the pressure weight so it goes to 17 PSI. "I put 3 quarters (15-18 grams) of weight on top of my jiggle weight."


--------------------


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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: dowodenum] * 1
    #28180330 - 02/10/23 01:28 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Thank you for the feedback.

So with the tfal - you can’t put weights on it.  The main reason why I was considering changing was because most of the teks seem to be written for the presto. 

I’ve been bringing it to 15 PSI then venting then bringing back to 15 PSI.  I can bring it to a boil and let it steam for 10-15 minutes and then close off the pressure.  That would make more sense.

I’ve always taken my scalpel out to flame it.  I just watched a video with a guy who had a torch in his SAB.  Never knew that was a possibility.  Last week I did the SAB work at my friends house and when I needed to torch the scalpel - I would slowly take it out of the SAB - and hold it out to her and she would torch it with a butane lighter.  Doesn’t work if you don’t have a friend to hold the button LOL.

For the arms - I wound up getting a rubber channel liner that someone else recommended.  I had tried melting the arms with the butane lighter but it didn’t smooth it out enough.  I’m hoping this rubber liner works and doesn’t create a new vector for contamination because it was incredibly comfortable to work with.

Edited by MushyMom (02/10/23 01:56 AM)

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Invisibledowodenum
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28180348 - 02/10/23 02:16 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Ahh my bad, didn't know that about the tfal.

Torch in the SAB can work, if you've got enough space and you're not using isopropyl. Or you can cut a hole to stick your scalpel through and flame it outside while keeping your hands inside lol, some people prefer that for the ergonomics.

I know San Pedro Girl glued PVC pipe in her SAB arm holes, and even went as far as getting pipe caps and attaching handles to them. It's quite the setup.


--------------------


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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: dowodenum]
    #28180643 - 02/10/23 08:53 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dowodenum said:

I know San Pedro Girl glued PVC pipe in her SAB arm holes, and even went as far as getting pipe caps and attaching handles to them. It's quite the setup.




Wow! That sounds amazing.

I think the rough edges were messing with my brain. My skin would welt up every time it would touch the edges. I noticed a huge difference in my comfort level last time and I think it helped to mentally slow me down

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Offlinenormalperson
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28180768 - 02/10/23 10:43 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

sometimes people make the armholes too small, mistakenly thinking this will help keep contamination out. the holes need to be large enough to allow your arms to move freely, never ever bumping the edge.  knocking into any part of the sab will vibrate loose contaminates. also, there is no good reason for making the armholes round, a square or rectangle is fine. Mist the inside with soapy water, not iso.

Edited by normalperson (02/10/23 10:51 AM)

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OnlineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: normalperson] * 1
    #28180782 - 02/10/23 10:57 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

they need to be big enough for my big ass mitts to put a jar through the hole. i really wanna mod my sab like spg too.  thats the next best thing to a flow hood.

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: normalperson]
    #28180848 - 02/10/23 12:03 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

normalperson said:
sometimes people make the armholes too small, mistakenly thinking this will help keep contamination out. the holes need to be large enough to allow your arms to move freely, never ever bumping the edge.  knocking into any part of the sab will vibrate loose contaminates. also, there is no good reason for making the armholes round, a square or rectangle is fine. Mist the inside with soapy water, not iso.




Yeah I used the coffee can method.  I think the holes are big enough but my arm strength is lacking and after a while they start to get tired and droop.  Also moving the ISO out and the soap in

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
    #28180850 - 02/10/23 12:04 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
they need to be big enough for my big ass mitts to put a jar through the hole. i really wanna mod my sab like spg too.  thats the next best thing to a flow hood.



yeah I have a friend who’s offering to make me a flow hood but I feel like if I don’t get my shit down in the SAB first a flow hood won’t make things any better.

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: dowodenum] * 1
    #28181189 - 02/10/23 04:31 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I think you may have hit on a big issue.  I’ve been overcooking my grains.  I have been bringing them up to 15 PSI - then venting and then cooking at 15 PSI.  As I’ve dealt with contam I’ve tried to compensate by cooking longer.  I think this is a biggie for my grain prep so THANK YOU for reading what I wrote and commenting.

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28203954 - 02/25/23 11:40 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Updating for myself.  Agar is looking great.  Prepped grain yesterday.  Used WBS.  Washed, rinsed and brought to a boil.  Turned off heat and let sit for an hour.  Drained and let sit in strainers for 2 hours.  Loaded into jars - Unmodified plastic lids - closed and then loosened slightly.  Covered lids with tin foil.  PC’d - vented for 10 minutes, then closed valve and PC’d for 90 minutes.  Let sit for an hour and then opened PC.  Jars too hot to touch - loosely covered PC and let sit overnight in PC.
Concerns: Rainy day - could not get grains as dry as I would like before loading into jars.
Expecting to prep more jars this week and will be transferring agar to grain soon.

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Offlinephenyl
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28204100 - 02/25/23 01:05 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I don't see anything mentioned about reasonably ruling out cultures contaminated with enmeshed bacteria or fungi. Very annoying and often subtle contamination vector.


--------------------
The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.

Edited by phenyl (02/25/23 01:08 PM)

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OfflineUCLSS22
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: phenyl]
    #28204191 - 02/25/23 02:05 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Very good thread with lots of good info.  Interested to see how things turn out. Thanks for the share.  Will be following the progress and taking notes…


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Nothing worthwhile ever came easy and nothing easy was ever worthwhile.

All of Munch’s Teks
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26967014

Updated PF Tek Guide
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086/page/3

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: phenyl]
    #28204447 - 02/25/23 05:20 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Totally possible. However I’ve used several vendors for spores and I still get contamination which makes me think the problem is me

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OfflineMycovester
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28204902 - 02/26/23 03:47 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Hi Everyone!

I have also had to re visit all my techniques as I was getting attacked left right and centre by mold.

I made a huge mistake at first....

I bought 99.99% Iso to dilute down to 70%. I was mixing it the wrong way (30% Iso, 70% water! duh!) Fixed that.  Yeah I know - Embarrassing.

I tried to use a modified SAB with a hairdryer blowing air through a HEPA filter. Air was to turbulent. Scrapped that SAB and now using a nice simple one.

I was doing the SAB work in my office, where there are a lot of computers and a crypto miner. Air flow will have been crazy turbulent. Fixed that, I now do lab work in the dining room.

So now I set my SAB up, all cleaned down with 70% Iso, everything I need inside. Then I sit down doe 5 minutes and let the air settle before I get started.

Since doing all of this I am now seeing 98% LESS contamination.

Making changes has completely changed my outlook. I was ready to give up.


--------------------


I'm half pencil half mushroom.

It's great.

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Offlinephenyl
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28205008 - 02/26/23 07:00 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Totally possible. However I’ve used several vendors for spores and I still get contamination which makes me think the problem is me




I usually have to clean up some contaminants hiding in the mycelium from syringes regardless of their origin. I think there are some hidden contaminant posts on shroomery, for what they're worth.

It's easier with very dilute spores to separate colonies from one another and targeting rhizomorphic growth if possible -- I suspect the old "go for rhizomorphic growth because it fruits better" advice came from a relative tendency to pull tomentose competitor molds along with tomentose mushroom mycelium.


--------------------
The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.

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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: phenyl] * 2
    #28205018 - 02/26/23 07:17 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

phenyl said:
I don't see anything mentioned about reasonably ruling out cultures contaminated with enmeshed bacteria or fungi. Very annoying and often subtle contamination vector.




:whathesaid:

Got plate pics?


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Don't follow leaders

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: LadysKnight]
    #28239959 - 03/21/23 04:27 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Prepped grain jars - using WBS - added to boiling water, took off heat and let soak for 90 minutes.  Drained.  Loaded jars.  PC’d in jars with unmodified plastic lids (vented for 15 minutes then PC for 90).

3-3 Used LC from Shroomery sponsor.  Applied to agar at the same time as the jars to test. Plates were clean. 

3-16 - shook jars

These pictures were taken last night





I’m not nuts about the way the grain looks.  I’m in wait and see mode on these.

Concerns are
1. Old WBS
2. Unmodified lids - some are warping.

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28239965 - 03/21/23 04:31 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Today - currently running jars using new Millet. 

Washed grains and drained.  Added grains to boiling water.  Removed from heat, covered and let sit for an hour.  Drained. Loaded jars.  Currently running with modified lids.  Planning to run for 2 hours.

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OfflineScrewup
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28239967 - 03/21/23 04:31 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Where’s the plate pics?


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OfflineHappinessStan
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Screwup] * 1
    #28239997 - 03/21/23 04:52 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

First, plate pics would really help, second, what contams are you facing? Mold and bacteria can happen for different reasons. Also, have you considered the filters on the jars maybe wicking contams in? Also, what does the lc look like. You're sure it's lc and not a spore syringe? These are the things I would address first.
I wouldn't shoot the bought lc to grain, I'd take some clean myc from the agar, transfer out a few times, then inoculate with that, either with a wedge or make it into an lc or li to inoculate.
That being said, nothing looks bad about those wbs jars to my eye. Especially after a shake.
Hope you work it out.:mushroom2:


--------------------





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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: HappinessStan]
    #28240063 - 03/21/23 05:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HappinessStan said:
First, plate pics would really help, second, what contams are you facing? Mold and bacteria can happen for different reasons. Also, have you considered the filters on the jars maybe wicking contams in? Also, what does the lc look like. You're sure it's lc and not a spore syringe? These are the things I would address first.
I wouldn't shoot the bought lc to grain, I'd take some clean myc from the agar, transfer out a few times, then inoculate with that, either with a wedge or make it into an lc or li to inoculate.
That being said, nothing looks bad about those wbs jars to my eye. Especially after a shake.
Hope you work it out.:mushroom2:




1. I had nice grows last year until I didn’t. We’re talking explosive green bins.
2. Yes it’s LC from a shroomery vendor. I know for sure it’s not spores.  But I tested it on agar when I noc’d the jars up and figured it it was shit I would just toss the jars
3. I’ve been working on my agar technique separate so I figure using the LC would help me separate my testing. I just put agar to grain last night too. Not my best agar but I had jars ready to go and figured why not. I need to load in a plate picture.
4. I’ve been running unmodified plastic lids. I am not nuts about them - it seems like I’m putting a little too much faith in the threads of the lid being sealed enough to keep out contam but open enough for air lol. 
5. My concerns with these jars - I’m seeing wet grains pressed against the jar on some. I see condensation on the top of some. And there’s one where the grains are looking red and pink. I’ve had worse jars and some of these look ok but some are questionable for me. I am going off of Stipes clean spawn checklist.

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28240135 - 03/21/23 06:26 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Have you considered increasing your sterilization time in the PC? I've seen many people say they do 2-2.5 hrs for grain as a fail safe. Of course this would only help if the bacteria was present when you put your LC to grain

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28240424 - 03/21/23 08:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

These are my plates that I sent to grain last might. Nothing exciting to see yet. They looked like they were about to pin and I had grain I had to use so I figured why not. 





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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: tholos]
    #28240614 - 03/21/23 10:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tholos said:
Have you considered increasing your sterilization time in the PC? I've seen many people say they do 2-2.5 hrs for grain as a fail safe. Of course this would only help if the bacteria was present when you put your LC to grain



So last year I kept upping the time and things kept getting worse. Like first I lost a tub or two. Then I lost a couple tubs. And then I was losing everything. So I don’t know if it made a difference or if everything was too far gone by that point :smile:

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28241498 - 03/22/23 02:17 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Prepped Millet yesterday. Added to boiling water.  Covered and took off heat for an hour. Loaded jars about halfway full. Pc - vent and then 15 psi for 2 hours.  Note to self - millet expands when it cooks.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28241508 - 03/22/23 02:22 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Yeah, it definitely does. Think we've all made that mistake!

I suggest weighing your jars (after taring out an empty one), getting them all the same ish, then writing on the jar what the load weight was. You only really need to mark one jar, if they all act the same. Having a number to go by will help you titrate to land on 3/4 full, over time.

I've also noticed that top layer jars (sideways) don't plump up quite as much as bottom layer. Something about the surface area maybe.

If you switch suppliers, you might have to do it again, due to different initial ("dry") hydration amounts.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28249714 - 03/27/23 05:53 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

3-27 11 days after shaking - This is the WBS that was inoculated on 3-3 and shaken on 3-16.  These are 100% bacterial.  I might try top fruiting.  Not sure yet.
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Prepped grain jars - using WBS - added to boiling water, took off heat and let soak for 90 minutes.  Drained.  Loaded jars.  PC’d in jars with unmodified plastic lids (vented for 15 minutes then PC for 90).

3-3 Used LC from Shroomery sponsor.  Applied to agar at the same time as the jars to test. Plates were clean. 

3-16 - shook jars

These pictures were taken last night





I’m not nuts about the way the grain looks.  I’m in wait and see mode on these.

Concerns are
1. Old WBS
2. Unmodified lids - some are warping.













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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28249718 - 03/27/23 05:55 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

These are the other 4 jars - I don’t think they look as bad as the ones in the last post but I’m still not nuts about them.  Might shoebox them


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28249727 - 03/27/23 06:02 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
These are the other 4 jars - I don’t think they look as bad as the ones in the last post but I’m still not nuts about them.  Might shoebox them






Also consider [Fahtbags] as an option. I've heard it's a bit easier to maintain moisture in them compared to shoeboxes.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: side-eye]
    #28249731 - 03/27/23 06:04 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I have unicorn bags for fruiting. I tried using them in the past but everything went.straight to contamination and didn’t pass go or collect $200…. I’m considering it - it seems like it would be easier to contain contam in the bag if it does go green again?

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28254945 - 03/30/23 03:46 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Just for shits and giggles I decided to open plates at my desk area (where I’ve been using my SAB lately) and in my closet (where I used to use the SAB and where I still store everything like my grain jars and Petri dishes. 

I opened these 3 days ago - gave them a quick wave and then closed them back up. So far the closet dish is taking off and the desk dish hasn’t sprouted anything - yet.

I usually keep my bins in my closet but I’m wondering if I should keep them somewhere else now. I also suspect having a couple bins go green in the closet in the past probably didn’t help much


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28254960 - 03/30/23 03:54 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Yeah closets (with clothes in) are pretty bad, I'd sooner use a clean kitchen any day.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: dowodenum] * 1
    #28254963 - 03/30/23 03:58 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dowodenum said:
Yeah closets (with clothes in) are pretty bad, I'd sooner use a clean kitchen any day.



Yeah it sucks. I’m a grown ass adult and I own my own home and yet I’m confined to the closet lol.

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28259355 - 04/02/23 03:47 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Mixing substrate and moving to fruiting.

These are from the first batch - wbs with lc purchased from a shroomery supplier. Jars with unmodified lids.

4 seemed really sus along the way. The other 4 were slightly sus. I marked the jars and will be comparing results along the way

I will be doing 2 shoeboxes and 2 unicorn bags of each. I am thinking of using a 1:1 ratio with the more sus jars and a 2:1 ratio on the better jars.  Prepping everything now

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28259677 - 04/02/23 07:18 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

These were the really bad jars


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28259680 - 04/02/23 07:20 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

The less crappy but still sus jars


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28259719 - 04/02/23 07:48 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I'd send #1 easily.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: dowodenum] * 2
    #28259773 - 04/02/23 08:46 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dowodenum said:
I'd send #1 easily.



I sent them all lol

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28260265 - 04/03/23 09:49 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Do keep us updated and best of luck with your grow.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy]
    #28262679 - 04/04/23 07:38 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

The ones I sent 2 days ago


The first 2 shoeboxes were from the jars that I felt were better.



The last 2 boxes were from jars that I didn’t feel were as strong.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28262683 - 04/04/23 07:42 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I also made 3 bags. The first 2 were from jars I felt were stronger. The last one was 2 jars I threw in together because I ran out of substrate and I was over it all

Concern with the bags is that I made these with the substrate at the bottom of the bucket and it seemed to be wetter than the stuff at the top. Considering opening them to vent so they can maybe dry out a little




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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28262716 - 04/04/23 07:58 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

These are the jars from the b+ agar plates I posted before - right before I shook them 2 days ago.

This is the last of the wbs for a while. I’m going to be playing with millet next. I’m also going to be using modified lids and unmodified lids with sfds for the next couple rounds


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28264602 - 04/06/23 04:36 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

What brand of WBS are you using, out of sheer curiosity?


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy]
    #28268927 - 04/08/23 05:28 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

It’s been a week since I sent these and I’m concerned. I can’t tell if it’s moisture or if there is mold growing. I’m going away for a couple days so I guess I will find out when I get home


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28269046 - 04/08/23 06:57 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Doesn't look like mold to me.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28269059 - 04/08/23 07:06 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
It’s been a week since I sent these and I’m concerned. I can’t tell if it’s moisture or if there is mold growing. I’m going away for a couple days so I guess I will find out when I get home






Looks like mycelium :smile:

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28269505 - 04/09/23 03:52 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

So I put the bins into a giant trash bag since I’m going away for the next 4 days and I don’t want to come back to a big green mess - again…. I figure if it works out - then great. But this looks like what happened last time.

In the meantime - I made 2 batches of millet. The millet is new - testing it out to see how it does. Washed and rinsed before starting.

1. Added to water that had been brought to a boil - then took off the heat. Sat for 20 minutes.

2. Soaked grains overnight for 15 hours.

Drained and added to jars. Pc - vent and then 15 psi for 2 hours.

I am using 2 types of lids - modified and unmodified with a sfd disk under the lid. We will see how it goes.  Added lc purchased from a shroomery supplier. So basically I used one syringe of lc and 8 jars.
2 flash boil with unmodified lids
2 soaked with unmodified lids
2 flash boiled with modified lids
2 flash boiled with unmodified lids

I figure that gives me a decent set to test with.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28269537 - 04/09/23 05:23 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I hope this works out for you. Did you test the LC on agar first? It's usually recommended, especially if you didn't make it yourself.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28269600 - 04/09/23 06:54 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
So I put the bins into a giant trash bag since I’m going away for the next 4 days and I don’t want to come back to a big green mess - again….




I don't understand the trash bag. How are they going to get fae?


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: myc_ousin_vinny] * 2
    #28269614 - 04/09/23 07:06 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

myc_ousin_vinny said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
So I put the bins into a giant trash bag since I’m going away for the next 4 days and I don’t want to come back to a big green mess - again….




I don't understand the trash bag. How are they going to get fae?




I guess theyre more scared of contaming thier grow area than of suffocating their shrooms 😂😂, i thought things looked fine. And if its contained in a mono and im scared of mold, i would just move it out of my grow area

Edited by Pandaskis (04/09/23 07:08 AM)

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy] * 1
    #28269717 - 04/09/23 09:01 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
What brand of WBS are you using, out of sheer curiosity?



Just saw this - the brand is Star. It’s actually quite nice and was working well at first.

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: NFLProof] * 1
    #28269721 - 04/09/23 09:02 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NFLProof said:
I hope this works out for you. Did you test the LC on agar first? It's usually recommended, especially if you didn't make it yourself.




Yes I did

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28269729 - 04/09/23 09:16 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Pandaskis said:
Quote:

myc_ousin_vinny said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
So I put the bins into a giant trash bag since I’m going away for the next 4 days and I don’t want to come back to a big green mess - again….




I don't understand the trash bag. How are they going to get fae?




I guess theyre more scared of contaming thier grow area than of suffocating their shrooms 😂😂, i thought things looked fine. And if its contained in a mono and im scared of mold, i would just move it out of my grow area




I have a small place and it’s hard to get it away from my grow area.

This batch is kind of my control batch since it’s pretty much what I was doing before

This is a picture of a shoebox from last year that went bad. It kind of looked like my shoeboxes now - it had a misty layer on top that turned crusty and white and then turned green. So I’m afraid of that happening again and I don’t want it exploding in my home/grow area.


I figure they are stacked on top of each other but the bag isn’t sealed so air can still move around a bit?  I might just have someone take it to their house to watch for the next couple days.

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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28269890 - 04/09/23 12:14 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Thanks for letting me know the brand of WBS. As for putting the tubs in a trash bag, please don't do this. To me this is far more likely to cause problems than just leaving them in a bigger tub. Your grow should be fine being left alone for a few days.


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Re: Diagnosing contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28269903 - 04/09/23 12:26 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Pandaskis said:
Quote:

myc_ousin_vinny said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
So I put the bins into a giant trash bag since I’m going away for the next 4 days and I don’t want to come back to a big green mess - again….




I don't understand the trash bag. How are they going to get fae?




I guess theyre more scared of contaming thier grow area than of suffocating their shrooms 😂😂, i thought things looked fine. And if its contained in a mono and im scared of mold, i would just move it out of my grow area




I have a small place and it’s hard to get it away from my grow area.

This batch is kind of my control batch since it’s pretty much what I was doing before

This is a picture of a shoebox from last year that went bad. It kind of looked like my shoeboxes now - it had a misty layer on top that turned crusty and white and then turned green. So I’m afraid of that happening again and I don’t want it exploding in my home/grow area.


I figure they are stacked on top of each other but the bag isn’t sealed so air can still move around a bit?  I might just have someone take it to their house to watch for the next couple days.




In my opinion, it looks quite different to your current grow, this looks like an overlay with a bleach white color and powdery texture, your current grow looks consistently one color.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28275272 - 04/13/23 01:19 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I’m really not encouraged with the state of the ones I sent to fruiting. 

I flipped lids on the shoeboxes but I’m concerned that they aren’t pinning and seem to have a fluffy film on them. The second one is in a bag and even though I have the top of the bags open - they are still wet


Edited by MushyMom (04/13/23 01:21 AM)

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28275275 - 04/13/23 01:22 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

The water droplets on the substrate surface look a little on the large side to me but my eyesight isn't that good, so I'd wait on a few more opinions on that. How many days since you spawned to bulk? And I'm assuming that the shoeboxes are getting air and some light from the get go?


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28276123 - 04/13/23 04:16 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Going back to batch 2 - WBS and unmodified lids - using the agar plates I posted before.  I dropped a wedge or two into each of these.  These were done on 3-20 and shaken a week or so ago - and I have many concerns.  I’m wondering if the uneven colonization is from using wedges instead of LC or smaller chunks of agar.
These are the last of the jars with unmodified lids and no filter.  Next couple batches are made with millet and SFDs or modified lids.

Jar 1


Jar 2 - more moisture :frown:



Jar 3 - one side is colonized - the other isn’t.




Jar 4


Jar 5


Jar 6

Edited by MushyMom (04/13/23 04:21 PM)

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28276334 - 04/13/23 06:36 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I've only done agar to grain, with brown rice and bird seed, and those jars look fine to me at the moment. My jars also colonize somewhat unevenly. I think that so long as the colonization isn't taking unduly long, or there aren't areas that just won't colonize, then you should be good.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy] * 1
    #28277080 - 04/14/23 09:15 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
I've only done agar to grain, with brown rice and bird seed, and those jars look fine to me at the moment. My jars also colonize somewhat unevenly. I think that so long as the colonization isn't taking unduly long, or there aren't areas that just won't colonize, then you should be good.



I usually go off Stipes checklist for clean spawn and they all pretty much fail LOL! I’m really concerned about the condensation

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28277220 - 04/14/23 10:44 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

johnukguy said:
I've only done agar to grain, with brown rice and bird seed, and those jars look fine to me at the moment. My jars also colonize somewhat unevenly. I think that so long as the colonization isn't taking unduly long, or there aren't areas that just won't colonize, then you should be good.



I usually go off Stipes checklist for clean spawn and they all pretty much fail LOL! I’m really concerned about the condensation




Condensation is fine, unless it starts pooling, there is quite a bit of moisture in some of your jars, but i dont think its quite enough to say its bacterial. WBS also has a tendency to look a little bit bacterial
even if its not  especially if you have cracked corn in it, because the starchy and stickiness can leave what looks like biofilm or wet spots. Just let it play out, they look fine to me atm :smile:

It looks pretty similar to my grain spawn, i appreciate the time and detail you put into this, helps noobies like me!

WBS 2nd attempt

Edited by Pandaskis (04/14/23 11:04 AM)

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28277248 - 04/14/23 11:06 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Not optimistic about these - it’s been 11 days

Shoeboxes


Bags - these have been completely open for air flow but still really wet

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28277261 - 04/14/23 11:11 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Not optimistic about these - it’s been 11 days

Shoeboxes


Bags - these have been completely open for air flow but still really wet





The mycelium in the shoebox looks a little matted up to my eyes, i wonder if you may be over misted?  Not sure!

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28277266 - 04/14/23 11:12 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Pandaskis said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Not optimistic about these - it’s been 11 days

Shoeboxes


Bags - these have been completely open for air flow but still really wet





The mycelium in the shoebox looks a little matted up to my eyes, i wonder if you may be over misted?  Not sure!



I haven’t misted at all…. That’s part of what concerns me…

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28277275 - 04/14/23 11:17 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Pandaskis said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Not optimistic about these - it’s been 11 days

Shoeboxes


Bags - these have been completely open for air flow but still really wet





The mycelium in the shoebox looks a little matted up to my eyes, i wonder if you may be over misted?  Not sure!



I haven’t misted at all…. That’s part of what concerns me…





Hmmm, how was the field capacity on the coir for those shoeboxes?  I wonder if you want to cut the liner more flush with the substrate so that the water from the condensation doesn't drip down onto the mycelium and pool. The mycelium around the edges just look a bit strange to me. But wait for someone with a bit more experience to chip in :laugh:

Edited by Pandaskis (04/14/23 11:20 AM)

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28277417 - 04/14/23 01:10 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I'm inclined to think that giving a little more air would help.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28280588 - 04/16/23 01:35 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

2 weeks in - and I’m giving up. They are turning orange. It’s all good. This was my first batch - the control group.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28283839 - 04/18/23 01:55 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

All my grains seem to have stalled.  All my plates seem to have stalled.  Is my closet too cold?  Not sure.  Just kind of frustrated

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28283841 - 04/18/23 01:57 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Is my closet too cold?



Maybe tell us the temp?

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28283842 - 04/18/23 01:58 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
All my grains seem to have stalled.  All my plates seem to have stalled.  Is my closet too cold?  Not sure.  Just kind of frustrated




Whats your ambient temperature in your closet?

Any images of your grain/plates?

How long have they stalled for in your estimate?

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28283847 - 04/18/23 02:02 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
2 weeks in - and I’m giving up. They are turning orange. It’s all good. This was my first batch - the control group.






Did you end up throwing these away? I wouldn't have given up hope for at least some fruits personally. 

They were definitely too wet and bacterial. More airflow would have helped. Not sure what your substrate recipe was but it could have been too wet as well.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way]
    #28285632 - 04/19/23 03:35 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Way said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
2 weeks in - and I’m giving up. They are turning orange. It’s all good. This was my first batch - the control group.






Did you end up throwing these away? I wouldn't have given up hope for at least some fruits personally. 

They were definitely too wet and bacterial. More airflow would have helped. Not sure what your substrate recipe was but it could have been too wet as well.



They aren’t thrown away yet because I’m lazy but I’m thinking the issue is 2 fold - the substrate was probably too wet and the jars were questionable to begin with.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28285678 - 04/19/23 04:15 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Making a note for myself - 3 bottles of agar

1. 7 g telegram 8 g LME 400 ml water.  No color.
2. 8 g Hoosier Hill Agar 8 g LME 400 ml water- red
3. 6g Karo 2 g potato flakes 7 g telephone agar 400 ml water - green Tried doing more potato flakes but couldn’t get them to dissolve

My arm is going to be SO SORE tonight

Edited by MushyMom (04/19/23 04:29 PM)

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28285681 - 04/19/23 04:17 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I could be wrong on this, especially since I usually use honey instead of LME, but I don't think that you need both LME and Karo.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy]
    #28285684 - 04/19/23 04:19 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
I could be wrong on this, especially since I usually use honey instead of LME, but I don't think that you need both LME and Karo.




I think those are 3 diff recipes.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy]
    #28285703 - 04/19/23 04:32 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
I could be wrong on this, especially since I usually use honey instead of LME, but I don't think that you need both LME and Karo.



Those are 3 different recipes - Someone mentioned that telephone agar can sometimes be harder…. So I’m trying telephone agar with LME and another with telephone agar with potato flakes and Karo.  And then I have another brand of agar I’m trying.  I had it all in my cult cupboard so I figured why not

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28285711 - 04/19/23 04:36 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Ah got ya. That makes sense then.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Pandaskis] * 1
    #28285713 - 04/19/23 04:37 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Pandaskis said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
All my grains seem to have stalled.  All my plates seem to have stalled.  Is my closet too cold?  Not sure.  Just kind of frustrated




Whats your ambient temperature in your closet?

Any images of your grain/plates?

How long have they stalled for in your estimate?




The closet is about 70 degrees - last winter was warmer and it was closer to 72 in there.

All my plates have been sucking lately - I tried from spores, from LC and even a clone and they all got really sad growth.  So I am making 3 new batches to see if it’s the agar or if it’s the technique. 
These are the plates that are currently in there.  That’s the last of that batch of agar plates - I had better plates from the batch before.  Like the plates from spores all started pinning.  These just look sad



These are the jars - I have pictures posted above of this batch - it was from agar to WBS - originally sent on 3-20.  I’m not seeing a lot of progress in these jars finishing up.  Considering turning the heat up a degree or two but they all look bacterial as fuck so part of me doesn’t want to bother.  Those are the last batch with unmodified lids. 


These are the newer batches with millet - one was prepared through the fooman method where you boil water - remove from heat and add millet.  Those jars are looking better.  The other batch was made by soaking millet overnight for 15 hours.  I shook these 2 days ago and the soaked batch doesn’t seem to be recovering




I got a lot of stuff going on here…. LOL

Edited by MushyMom (04/19/23 04:38 PM)

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way]
    #28285736 - 04/19/23 04:51 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Way said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
2 weeks in - and I’m giving up. They are turning orange. It’s all good. This was my first batch - the control group.






Did you end up throwing these away? I wouldn't have given up hope for at least some fruits personally. 

They were definitely too wet and bacterial. More airflow would have helped. Not sure what your substrate recipe was but it could have been too wet as well.




I just checked them - here’s what I found


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28285741 - 04/19/23 04:57 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Hmmmmm, im perplexed about what could be going wrong, your technique seems pretty good from what im reading, have you tried doing BRF puck to Agar? I heard people have more luck with germinating spores especially if its in a syringe that way. 

Do you happen to use a swamp cooler?

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28286268 - 04/20/23 01:01 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Making a note for myself - 3 bottles of agar

1. 7 g telegram 8 g LME 400 ml water.  No color.
2. 8 g Hoosier Hill Agar 8 g LME 400 ml water- red
3. 6g Karo 2 g potato flakes 7 g telephone agar 400 ml water - green Tried doing more potato flakes but couldn’t get them to dissolve

My arm is going to be SO SORE tonight




Weird stuff. I couldn’t pour right away - so I left the bottles in the instant pot. I came back and when I opened it - 

1 had somehow overflowed and only about 200 ml left in the bottle - the rest was in the instant pot.  It’s one of the blue lid bottles - I’m only going to use orange lids from now on

I turned the heat back on and bottle 2 is melting and bubbling like crazy. Meanwhile bottles 1 and 3 are slowly starting to melt. Bottle 2 was made with the Hoosier Hill agar - I had bought a pound for $30 when I first got started. I was hoping to compare side by side with bottle 1 but there may not be enough agar left to pour - what’s in the bottle is super hard. 

Waiting for them to melt and then I can get some sleep. It’s been a busy day

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28286676 - 04/20/23 11:14 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

This one is fucked



The jars prepared with the flash soak method are recovering much better than the jars with the 15 hour soak. It may have been too cold in the house during the soak - they didn’t rehydrate as well



And these - I’m straight up giving up on. I am leaning towards the modified lids being the issue but need to do a batch with millet and agar to be sure



I have baccy blobs in my bins and I’m happy about that


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28286682 - 04/20/23 11:20 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Making a note for myself - 3 bottles of agar

1. 7 g telegram 8 g LME 400 ml water.  No color.
2. 8 g Hoosier Hill Agar 8 g LME 400 ml water- red
3. 6g Karo 2 g potato flakes 7 g telephone agar 400 ml water - green Tried doing more potato flakes but couldn’t get them to dissolve

My arm is going to be SO SORE tonight




Weird stuff. I couldn’t pour right away - so I left the bottles in the instant pot. I came back and when I opened it - 

1 had somehow overflowed and only about 200 ml left in the bottle - the rest was in the instant pot.  It’s one of the blue lid bottles - I’m only going to use orange lids from now on

I turned the heat back on and bottle 2 is melting and bubbling like crazy. Meanwhile bottles 1 and 3 are slowly starting to melt. Bottle 2 was made with the Hoosier Hill agar - I had bought a pound for $30 when I first got started. I was hoping to compare side by side with bottle 1 but there may not be enough agar left to pour - what’s in the bottle is super hard. 

Waiting for them to melt and then I can get some sleep. It’s been a busy day




I was only able to pour dishes from the Hoosier hill agar and mle. The potato never quite dissolved right.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28288269 - 04/21/23 01:43 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I think I’m finding a sweet spot - millet - flash soaked for 20 minutes - and more FAE in the jars.  Both the plastic lid with the SFD disk and the modified lid seem to be doing well.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28288272 - 04/21/23 01:45 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
I think I’m finding a sweet spot - millet - flash soaked for 20 minutes - and more FAE in the jars.  Both the plastic lid with the SFD disk and the modified lid seem to be doing well.





Theyre looking good to me!

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28288275 - 04/21/23 01:46 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Those definitely look pretty promising so far.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28288901 - 04/21/23 07:00 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
I think I’m finding a sweet spot - millet - flash soaked for 20 minutes - and more FAE in the jars.  Both the plastic lid with the SFD disk and the modified lid seem to be doing well.






Most agreeable. :smile:


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28290081 - 04/22/23 03:44 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Ugh.  Bacterial :frown:


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28290107 - 04/22/23 03:56 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

If it's just the one jar that's bacterial, then I think you're doing pretty well.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28290179 - 04/22/23 04:25 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Ugh.  Bacterial :frown:




Story of my life. Bacterial aerosols getting everywhere in the SAB environment and not settling presumably killed my grow for about 6 months last year. Keep at it.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy] * 1
    #28290523 - 04/22/23 08:08 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
If it's just the one jar that's bacterial, then I think you're doing pretty well.




One also went to mold :frown:

I think the millet I did the fooman method on - added to boiling hot water for 20 minutes are a smidge too wet. And the millet I did the 15 hour soak on are a smidge too dry. But there’s a happy spot right in between and I’m almost there

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28290681 - 04/22/23 11:28 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Not sure if you've seen this video, from Stipe-n Cap, which I believe is based on Fooman's prep, but it's working well for me so far, in case there is a difference with what you're doing:



Also, I don't know how you're consuming the fruits, but I do find a difference if I make a tea, or use capsules instead. The capsules come on slower and more gently but seem a little less intense overall. Then again, I'm testing the capsules for people that have conditions that can benefit from the mushrooms, but don't necessarily want to trip and find it useful to have a more precise way of measuring amounts. And that likely means that I have some tolerance as it's only been a week between doing that and consuming a larger amount.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy] * 1
    #28290733 - 04/23/23 12:44 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I just did this now....last 5 minutes in the PC then off to bed.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy] * 1
    #28290734 - 04/23/23 12:44 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
Not sure if you've seen this video, from Stipe-n Cap, which I believe is based on Fooman's prep, but it's working well for me so far, in case there is a difference with what you're doing:





Yeah I was going off his millet prep - the fooman prep where you being the water to a boil - remove from heat and let the grain soak - I think it might have soaked a smidge too long. Vs doing a 15 hour soak - I think the water needed to be a little warmer for the jars I soaked overnight. But I feel like I’m close. I like the millet more than the wbs because it’s more consistent

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 2
    #28305159 - 05/03/23 04:04 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Pairing these APE jars today and sending to mini monos - doing a 1:3 ratio with a pseudo casing layer.

Overall these jars seem to look ok. They show some condensation and signs of bacteria but it seems mild.  These were prepared using the flash soak method described above. The jars seemed a smidge too cooked and I reduced the soak time by a couple of minutes when I prepped the next batch in that method. 


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28306192 - 05/04/23 10:18 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Pairing these APE jars today and sending to mini monos - doing a 1:3 ratio with a pseudo casing layer.

Overall these jars seem to look ok. They show some condensation and signs of bacteria but it seems mild.  These were prepared using the flash soak method described above. The jars seemed a smidge too cooked and I reduced the soak time by a couple of minutes when I prepped the next batch in that method. 






So you still haven't figured out where the bacteria is coming from? Only thing I can add is that halving the volume of grain in the jars will reduce your grain expenditure and (somewhat) decrease time to colonization while you test things.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: phenyl] * 1
    #28307075 - 05/04/23 11:00 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

The PE shoeboxes made from the wbs produced lots and lots of blobs.



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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28307077 - 05/04/23 11:02 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Sent these today to mini monos - GT this round


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: phenyl] * 1
    #28307079 - 05/04/23 11:06 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

phenyl said:

So you still haven't figured out where the bacteria is coming from? Only thing I can add is that halving the volume of grain in the jars will reduce your grain expenditure and (somewhat) decrease time to colonization while you test things.




I think I’m closing in on it - pretty sure it’s now on the grain prep.  I need to find the sweet spot for the soak or the flash prep method.  It’s close - I can feel it LOL

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28312542 - 05/09/23 10:43 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Crossing fingers and toes - these are the APE boxes I sent on 5-3


Edited by MushyMom (05/09/23 11:42 AM)

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28321218 - 05/15/23 11:11 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

The remaining APE box - yesterday vs today. Today we have the fuzzy spots. They were sent 12 days ago and I’m getting nervous.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28321282 - 05/16/23 01:04 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
The remaining APE box - yesterday vs today. Today we have the fuzzy spots. They were sent 12 days ago and I’m getting nervous.





Errrr nerrrr, looks like mould :frown:


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: 3.A.M]
    #28322678 - 05/17/23 01:16 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Not sure wtf is happening here


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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28322680 - 05/17/23 01:18 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Gt bin sent on 5-4


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28323474 - 05/17/23 03:02 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

GT tubs sent 5-4


Edited by MushyMom (05/17/23 03:03 PM)

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28323753 - 05/17/23 06:30 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

This one has been evicted from the house.  Oh well.



Moving back into shoeboxes with the next ones I’m sending.  Those are the jars that I soaked but I don’t think they rehydrated well enough and they colonized slower. But they are colonized so why not?

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28324032 - 05/17/23 09:20 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
This one has been evicted from the house.  Oh well.



Moving back into shoeboxes with the next ones I’m sending.  Those are the jars that I soaked but I don’t think they rehydrated well enough and they colonized slower. But they are colonized so why not?




Oh man thats some weird growth. Shame because your surface conditions look spot on. im curious about what may be going on; how was your tub getting FAE?

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28324256 - 05/18/23 01:37 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I may have missed it, if you've done this already, but can you post a step by step up the point of S2B? I realise it's a lot to type out, but there's got to be a solution. This isn't some supernatural occurrence, so the contamination has a cause and that can be found and dealt with.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: johnukguy] * 1
    #28325673 - 05/19/23 12:32 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
I may have missed it, if you've done this already, but can you post a step by step up the point of S2B? I realise it's a lot to type out, but there's got to be a solution. This isn't some supernatural occurrence, so the contamination has a cause and that can be found and dealt with.




Yeah I’ve been doing a lot of batches so they are running together.

So I had prepped 8 jars - I started by washing and adding the drop of dish soap. Rinsed it clear. Brought water to a boil. Turned off the heat and moved the pot and added the millet. I let it soak for 20 minutes then poured it out and rinsed and drained for about an hour. Loaded into jars and Pcd for about 2 hours - I put the exact amount up there originally and yes I vented first. Half of the jars has unmodified plastic lids with a full sfd disc under the lid and the other half were standard modified metal lids.

I used LC that I had purchased from a shroomery supplier that I had tested. I’m concurrently working on my agar technique but that takes so much time and I’m wanting to work on my grain before the summer season kicks in.

I had also done a second batch of millet jars that I had soaked for 15 hours (after washing with dish soap) and then loaded into jars (same lids as described above) and pcd. Again I’m not sure the exact time - but I had posted above.

So in the end - I used APE lc with half (8) of the jars and GT lc with the other half of the jars. I split them up by the method of preparation so 4 APE jars with the flash boil soak method and 4 with the overnight soak method. Then I split the GT the same way - if that makes sense.

The grain that was just soaked wasn’t as hydrated. I considered tossing them but that millet is expensive at the wild bird store - and took longer to colonize. I’m about to send those jars but the other jars colonized faster.

I used canna coir blocks - I mixed 650 g of coir with 3 1/2-4 quarts of boiling water and 2 cups of verm. I have a dedicated coir bucket that I wash out with anti bacterial soap and hot water and then dry completely before use.

I sent them to mini monos - the 20 quart gasket tubs. I had concerns that contamination could possibly be in the actual gaskets - but I’m not sure how to address that. I washed them with antibacterial soap and hot water but I still don’t trust them. These mini monos have the holes drilled around the sides for air exchange - like the pasty ez dial tubs.

I mixed the spawn at a 3:1 ratio with the substrate and then added another 2 quarts on top for a pseudo casing layer. I also compressed as much as I could

The 2 APE bins seemed to fall - one went to trich pretty fast - the other is now outside. Not sure what is happening but it can do what it wants outside I guess.

The two GT bins from this batch are starting to colonize. I’m just crossing fingers and toes that they make it.

My suspicions are as follows - it could be any or all of the following
1. The LC wasn’t good
2. The grain wasn’t properly prepped (I have a tfal that is supposed to go to 15 psi) instead of a presto)
3. Contamination was present in the jars before I sent to fruiting
4 contamination was present in the bins in the gaskets.
5 contamination was present in the air since I’ve had a few bins go bad

If the GT tubs turn out ok then I can rule out the grain prep.

I will need to send the rest of the jars (the soaked ones) and see how they goes. I was planning to send them all to shoeboxes just in case. If the APE goes bad then I will look at the LC from the vendor. If it doesn’t then I will be looking at the gasket tubs.  It’s also possible they will all go bad because I don’t know if the grain was fully hydrated. But we will cross that bridge when we get there.

Hope that all makes sense

Does that make sense?  It’s late.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28329195 - 05/21/23 08:04 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I think these are fucked


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28329264 - 05/21/23 09:56 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Thats super weird growth... It still looks like mycelium... But man it kinda looks fucked

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Pandaskis] * 1
    #28329371 - 05/21/23 11:27 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I believe Canna has historically added trichoderma to their coco to aid in plant health - it might be worth trying another brand of coco to see if that changes things for you.  It seems like you're addressing pretty much everything else already. :justdontknow:

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: PBJ710]
    #28329383 - 05/22/23 12:08 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid: Is definitely worth checking out. And thank you for all that you typed up. It does help.

At this point, I would suggest three things - to try different grain, even something like plain brown rice, or cheap wild bird seed, whatever you can easily get that's not expensive for a small batch. Plain brown rice for example is pretty clean out of the bag. It tends to get starchy but that's not a major issue I think.

Secondly, different coir. I really do, in my thinking on this, keep coming back to that coir. You could even do a tub, as you normally would, but not spawn to it and see if that contaminates with a few weeks. Four at most should give you an answer on that.

I'd also recommend adding another fifteen minutes or so to the PC time, just in case it's not actually reaching fifteen psi. Having said this, even if it's thirteen or fourteen psi, two hours should still be enough. But, just in case.

The 'proper' way to do such things is to change one variable at a time. If it was me, I'd do all three, because I'm impatient with such things, but that's me and not necessarily recommended here.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: PBJ710] * 1
    #28329431 - 05/22/23 01:40 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
I believe Canna has historically added trichoderma to their coco to aid in plant health - it might be worth trying another brand of coco to see if that changes things for you.  It seems like you're addressing pretty much everything else already. :justdontknow:




This was my first time using canna - I’ve used coco bliss in the past and also had it go bad. I checked the site for canna and it says that they don’t add trich but they also said that basically trich happens - it’s everywhere. 

I know that I recently super baccy jars to shoeboxes and didn’t have any go green. This was the last batch I had posted before these. I feel like I need a better journal to keep track of all of this lol. They weren’t great but I still got a couple oz of awesome blobs.  Besides being shoeboxes - I also used a lower ratio or substrate to spawn to compensate for the bacterial spawn. 

Next steps - I will be sending what I have to shoeboxes next.  I’m thinking about also lowering the substrate to spawn ratio to mimic what I had done with the bacterial spawn.

I still have a decent amount of millet and I prefer it because I feel like I can see what’s happening better because it’s more uniform. It’s a little frustrating because I feel like the grain prep has been getting a lot better but I’m still getting crap. I have pics of the jars I sent posted above - I feel like they were solid - but I could be wrong.

If anyone has any idea on how to better journal this - I would love to know.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28343004 - 06/01/23 11:54 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)



Tested additional jars with canna coir in shoeboxes. Created 4 on 5-24. So far 2 have contaminated. Next test will be to test additional jars (already ready) with coco bliss and no vermiculite in shoeboxes.

Other considerations - I still have concerns that my tfal pressure cooker is not reaching a full 15 psi. Will pc next batch longer to see if same results are achieved. If so, will be purchasing a presto.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 2
    #28348261 - 06/05/23 01:20 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Trying yet again. Prepped Millet reverse fooman - washed before adding to boiling water. Removed from heat and let sit for about 30 minutes.

Added to pc. Vent for 15 minutes. Then being to pressure for 2:15.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28348265 - 06/05/23 01:22 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I admire your tenacity. I'm really sorry you are dealing with thia.


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way]
    #28348429 - 06/05/23 03:45 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

hmmm. I don't usually try bulk grows and generally prefer something closer to PF tek since I think it's easier to keep everything aseptic, but I do have a suggestion to get some more FEA that's a based on a tek I read here years ago (credit to that tek). Instead of using all those holes in the side of a plastic box you put a layer of water in the bottom and submerge some aquarium aerators in the water with an aquarium air pump hooked up to them. Make sure the cakes or substrate are at least a few inches above the water layer. The aerators create constant free air exchange by pumping air through the aerator stones and water layer. That setup humidifies and filters the incoming air, and it also creates a positive pressure environment that blows air out of the cracks under the lid. That helps prevent mold spores and that kind of stuff from getting into your fruiting chamber. There's no fanning required and you don't have to remove the lid until you're ready to pick the mushies. It doesn't stop the god damn fruit flies from sneaking into the box though. You're going to have to rely on pure hatred for that. Maybe you can use that alcohol lamp to burn some of them alive and put their heads on little pikes to make an example out of the ones that sneak into the fruiting chamber. If we all do it they might get the message. Those little bastards drag their bacteria riddled feet across everything if they get into a grow.


Other tips:

1. If you're banished to a closet, then it might help to set up the SAB with everything inside it before you bring it into the closet. You can set everything up on the lid, put the box on top, and then seal the little arm holes with some plastic wrap or foil... and then bring the thing into your little punishment room for the rest of the work. Trying to decon the inside of a SAB in a closet would suck, but if you can decon it somewhere else and then work with it in the closet you should be okay.

2. You can wrap stuff in aluminum foil before you put it in the PC. Anything inside the foil stays sterile and then you can carefully peel the foil layer off when you're ready for aseptic technique. That works great for tools and petri dishes. It even works for grain jars if you're feeling paranoid.

3. Like someone else mentioned, propane torches are way easier to work with than alcohol lamps for flame sterilization. I would demolish a house before I tried to solder a pipe with an alcohol lamp. Check the plumbing section or maybe the camping section at the store. That being said, I would also be nervous to have an open flame in that little punishment closet since it already sounds hellish and you don't want to burn your house down or die in a fire. If you've got some extra cash laying around, then your could consider buying and induction sterilizer instead. It uses an electric induction coil to heat metal with electromagnetic field instead of an open flame.

3. You can buy metal mason jar lids in the canning section at the store. They're designed for sterilization and they're cheap.

4. Make bigger arm holes in your SAB so you can work smoothly and easily. They don't have to be that tight and it's more important that your movements inside the SAB are careful and easy. Most contams from the air fall downward or move with air current. As long as you're not working where there's a major breeze or a lot of turbulent air flow, then you should be okay with bigger arm holes. The SAB is mostly about preventing  things from falling down onto your workspace and preventing laminar air flow from passing across your work space. Bigger holes in the front shouldn't be a problem unless you have a fan blowing on one of the holes and not the other or something silly like that. Setup your SAB so you can do the sensitive sterile work near the back if you're worried about a little air leaking in the arm holes. You can even rest your elbows on the arm holes if you put rests in front of the box. Steady hands are important, and resting your elbows makes your hands less shaky. Don't fight the SAB. Make it your friend. It's there to help.

5. If you're worried that you're not pressure cooking long enough, then you can always increase the cook time to be sure. I've heard some arguments against cooking for too long, but I'm not convinced. People have grown mushrooms on cardboard so some slightly overcooked grain should not be a problem as long as it's sterile. I've done a few hours at temp and had no problems. It's way safer to overcook than undercook. Just make sure you have enough water in the bottom of the PC. I usually vent the PC quicker than recommended too. The stuff inside stays hot that way and the extra heat drives off surface condensation so it's bone dry when you take it out of the PC. I don't like liquid running around the surface of stuff that's supposed to stay sterile. I cry a little when my petri dishes come out of the PC with tears running down their sides. It's a sad time for all involved. Petri dishes have feelings too.



I'm happy to see someone working with the hobby like this. After you get the little kinks worked out, then you should be pretty successful. That aquarium air pump setup is what made my fruiting attempts work out better.

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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #28348465 - 06/05/23 04:15 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Also - next steps - I have some jars ready to send. I am going to go to my friends house and work from there. I will also leave half the shoeboxes there and take half with me.  I’ve been suspicious of my carpeting for a while just in general. My allergies have been going crazy lately so I figure it can’t hurt.

I’m really looking for an excuse to replace the carpeting in my condo lol.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way] * 1
    #28348472 - 06/05/23 04:19 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Way said:
I admire your tenacity. I'm really sorry you are dealing with thia.



Thank you. I will figure this out eventually and giving up is not an option.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 2
    #28349380 - 06/06/23 09:50 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Holy shit. I looked outside at the stack of the bin of failures and saw this



I guess what they said in Jurassic park is true - life will find a way.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349386 - 06/06/23 09:58 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

That failure looks better than many successful grows. Just saying. :shrug:

I mean there's probably all kinds of nasty shit growing in that bare patch on the left, but still, that's alotta mushrooms.:grannycheer:


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: altford78]
    #28349387 - 06/06/23 10:03 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

altford78 said:
That failure looks better than many successful grows. Just saying. :shrug:

I mean there's probably all kinds of nasty shit growing in that bare patch on the left, but still, that's alotta mushrooms.:grannycheer:




Right?  I cut out the green. I know it’s already sporated but I took out the worst so at least I don’t have to look at it. I am hoping what’s left is salvageable.  But even if it isn’t - at least I got something to grow


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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349410 - 06/06/23 10:29 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

As long as you heat treat them (dry or make tea) they should be safe to consume :smile:

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349641 - 06/06/23 02:03 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Over 330 g from that bin so I feel like something is going right - minus the contamination.  😀😀




I’ve tested multiple ways to prep grain. I’ve been using purchased LC and agar I’ve prepped myself and no matter what I’m getting the green. The constant is being in my house. Next test will be sending to fruiting and storing the shoeboxes at a different location.  Just need to keep on keeping on - sometimes a failure is a success.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349658 - 06/06/23 02:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?


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OfflineMushyMom
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way]
    #28349670 - 06/06/23 02:24 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Way said:
This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?




I mix the coir in a bucket with boiling water and verm. I bleach the bucket before getting started.

One thing all of these batches had in common is that I used canna coir instead of my usual coco bliss. I had been getting contam with the coco bliss too though so I didn’t think that was the issue.

I’m also tempted to skip the verm on the next batch just to reduce one more possible source of contamination.

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349678 - 06/06/23 02:30 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

My guess is it might be a faulty Pressure cooker? Have you tried it with any other PC, i know theyre expensive so you may not have the luxury to do that

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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349685 - 06/06/23 02:33 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Way said:
This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?




I mix the coir in a bucket with boiling water and verm. I bleach the bucket before getting started.

One thing all of these batches had in common is that I used canna coir instead of my usual coco bliss. I had been getting contam with the coco bliss too though so I didn’t think that was the issue.

I’m also tempted to skip the verm on the next batch just to reduce one more possible source of contamination.




With your hands or something else?
Only reason I ask is I recall a similar thread where it was finally found out that the guy had been using the same wooden spoon he mixed his grains with on the stove.

Some of the grain water ended up adding just enough nutrition to the coir when he mixed it that the coir would end up harboring contamination and it wouldn't pop up until it was spawned.

Highly unlikely though.


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28349699 - 06/06/23 02:51 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pandaskis said:
My guess is it might be a faulty Pressure cooker? Have you tried it with any other PC, i know theyre expensive so you may not have the luxury to do that




I have a TFal that goes to 15 psi. Buying a presto is on the list if the next steps (working at my friends house and keeping the shoeboxes there)

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way]
    #28349701 - 06/06/23 02:53 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Way said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Way said:
This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?




I mix the coir in a bucket with boiling water and verm. I bleach the bucket before getting started.

One thing all of these batches had in common is that I used canna coir instead of my usual coco bliss. I had been getting contam with the coco bliss too though so I didn’t think that was the issue.

I’m also tempted to skip the verm on the next batch just to reduce one more possible source of contamination.




With your hands or something else?
Only reason I ask is I recall a similar thread where it was finally found out that the guy had been using the same wooden spoon he mixed his grains with on the stove.

Some of the grain water ended up adding just enough nutrition to the coir when he mixed it that the coir would end up harboring contamination and it wouldn't pop up until it was spawned.

Highly unlikely though.




I mix with a metal spatula that I wash through the dishwasher. I also wear the surgical gloves when I’m working - and change them between each batch.

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OfflinePandaskis
Eating Bamboo
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Registered: 03/14/23
Posts: 1,869
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349727 - 06/06/23 03:08 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Pandaskis said:
My guess is it might be a faulty Pressure cooker? Have you tried it with any other PC, i know theyre expensive so you may not have the luxury to do that




I have a TFal that goes to 15 psi. Buying a presto is on the list if the next steps (working at my friends house and keeping the shoeboxes there)




I love my presto :laugh:

Does the TFal use a rocker or a guage?

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Offlinephenyl
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Registered: 09/03/22
Posts: 544
Loc: One toke over the line
Last seen: 7 hours, 41 minutes
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349757 - 06/06/23 03:27 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
I’ve tested multiple ways to prep grain. I’ve been using purchased LC and agar I’ve prepped myself and no matter what I’m getting the green. The constant is being in my house. Next test will be sending to fruiting and storing the shoeboxes at a different location.  Just need to keep on keeping on - sometimes a failure is a success.




My bet is still on the SAB not being functionally effective in your environment. I had the same issue when I moved -- plagued me for about 9 months before I relented and bought an FFU. Problem immediately solved.

For me the giveaway was that most of my blank plates were forming colonies a few weeks after being poured. Beefing up my SAB technique helped but never quite solved it. Airbourne bacteria sucks.


--------------------
The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.

Edited by phenyl (06/06/23 03:37 PM)

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InvisibleWay
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349758 - 06/06/23 03:28 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Way said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Way said:
This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?




I mix the coir in a bucket with boiling water and verm. I bleach the bucket before getting started.

One thing all of these batches had in common is that I used canna coir instead of my usual coco bliss. I had been getting contam with the coco bliss too though so I didn’t think that was the issue.

I’m also tempted to skip the verm on the next batch just to reduce one more possible source of contamination.




With your hands or something else?
Only reason I ask is I recall a similar thread where it was finally found out that the guy had been using the same wooden spoon he mixed his grains with on the stove.

Some of the grain water ended up adding just enough nutrition to the coir when he mixed it that the coir would end up harboring contamination and it wouldn't pop up until it was spawned.

Highly unlikely though.




I mix with a metal spatula that I wash through the dishwasher. I also wear the surgical gloves when I’m working - and change them between each batch.




I figured. Worth a shot though. Godspeed.


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: phenyl]
    #28350095 - 06/06/23 08:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

phenyl said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
I’ve tested multiple ways to prep grain. I’ve been using purchased LC and agar I’ve prepped myself and no matter what I’m getting the green. The constant is being in my house. Next test will be sending to fruiting and storing the shoeboxes at a different location.  Just need to keep on keeping on - sometimes a failure is a success.




My bet is still on the SAB not being functionally effective in your environment. I had the same issue when I moved -- plagued me for about 9 months before I relented and bought an FFU. Problem immediately solved.

For me the giveaway was that most of my blank plates were forming colonies a few weeks after being poured. Beefing up my SAB technique helped but never quite solved it. Airbourne bacteria sucks.




Possible but I get 99% clean plates when I pour agar. My jars appear clean but then fail when sent to fruiting - this is across multiple batches done at different tones. If it was the SAB I would expect a higher contamination rate from my plates and a lower contamination rate from my boxes.

I’m not ruling out the SAB. I might try bringing the sab over and inoculating jars at my friends house when I go over to mix coir and make shoeboxes.

I wish I could get a ffu but I really don’t have the space for it right now. Until someone creates a portable one I’m kind of out of luck.

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InvisibleWay
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28350162 - 06/06/23 09:18 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

phenyl said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
I’ve tested multiple ways to prep grain. I’ve been using purchased LC and agar I’ve prepped myself and no matter what I’m getting the green. The constant is being in my house. Next test will be sending to fruiting and storing the shoeboxes at a different location.  Just need to keep on keeping on - sometimes a failure is a success.




My bet is still on the SAB not being functionally effective in your environment. I had the same issue when I moved -- plagued me for about 9 months before I relented and bought an FFU. Problem immediately solved.

For me the giveaway was that most of my blank plates were forming colonies a few weeks after being poured. Beefing up my SAB technique helped but never quite solved it. Airbourne bacteria sucks.




Possible but I get 99% clean plates when I pour agar. My jars appear clean but then fail when sent to fruiting - this is across multiple batches done at different tones. If it was the SAB I would expect a higher contamination rate from my plates and a lower contamination rate from my boxes.

I’m not ruling out the SAB. I might try bringing the sab over and inoculating jars at my friends house when I go over to mix coir and make shoeboxes.

I wish I could get a ffu but I really don’t have the space for it right now. Until someone creates a portable one I’m kind of out of luck.




Even has handles

It's 2 feet wide. Smaller than my SAB.

Definitely an investment though.


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.

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Offlinephenyl
Stupid person
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Registered: 09/03/22
Posts: 544
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28350363 - 06/07/23 03:01 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:

Possible but I get 99% clean plates when I pour agar. My jars appear clean but then fail when sent to fruiting - this is across multiple batches done at different tones. If it was the SAB I would expect a higher contamination rate from my plates and a lower contamination rate from my boxes.





How long are you leaving your plates out for? I had 99% clean plates that would gradually fall to about 10% clean plates after a month of storage. Bacteria won't grow as quickly on agar as a 3d substrate that gets shaked up frequently.

- Bacteria and random molds (pink green and white!) are persistent problems.
- Multiple grain prep techniques have been used without effect; unlikely the issue.
- Multiple inoculant sources have been used without effect; unlikely the issue.
- Substrate prep is overwhelmingly unlikely to be an issue.

My suspicion therefore is that something from the environment is getting into your jars at inoculation.

It's possible you have (macroscopically) invisible bacteria or mold on your plates but with the variety of molds you've dealt with sporulating in glassware I'm inclined against suggesting it as a primary contaminant source. Unless, of course, your grain prep was at some point ineffective and the cause of those molds; I can't see if you've done control studies to see if your jars contaminate without inoculation.

What I am inclined to suggest is that your jars are almost always bacterially contaminated and killing off the mycelium, allowing molds to germinate after a few weeks. You can sometimes seemingly observe that happening if you leave a heavily bacterial jar for long enough.


Here's my favourite tub from when I was struggling with phantom contamination. The "pillows" turned orange after another week and the entire thing went green, lol. I was so pissed.


--------------------
The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.

Edited by phenyl (06/07/23 03:16 AM)

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Offlinejohnukguy
Learning
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Registered: 06/23/22
Posts: 2,423
Loc: Colorado Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way] * 1
    #28350364 - 06/07/23 03:01 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)




Dammit man, yet another longed for material thing that I have to put on my Amazon wish list. At this rate, I'll be starting an OnlyFans account soon.


--------------------
How to post pictures to shroomery TEK

Shroomery Trusted Cultivator And Member YouTube Channels.

“Evey Hammond: Who are you?
V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.
Evey Hammond: Well I can see that.
V: Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is”


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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28395685 - 07/14/23 06:19 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

So life has been very busy and I haven’t had time to do any cult work.

Today I found out that there is a slow leak in the plumbing of the unit upstairs from mine that has been there for a while.  There is significant water damage and the M word growing in the walls.  They are going to need to tear apart my bathroom ceilings and walls and basically redo everything. Working with insurance and a restoration company to get this resolved but according to the plumber this could have been there for up to a year. 

So if I didn’t have a bunch of crap flying around my condo before - I do now. I’m guessing my cult work needs to go on hold for a bit longer :frown:


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