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OfflineMushyMom
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Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 2
    #28348261 - 06/05/23 01:20 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Trying yet again. Prepped Millet reverse fooman - washed before adding to boiling water. Removed from heat and let sit for about 30 minutes.

Added to pc. Vent for 15 minutes. Then being to pressure for 2:15.

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InvisibleWay
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 1
    #28348265 - 06/05/23 01:22 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I admire your tenacity. I'm really sorry you are dealing with thia.


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,602
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way]
    #28348429 - 06/05/23 03:45 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

hmmm. I don't usually try bulk grows and generally prefer something closer to PF tek since I think it's easier to keep everything aseptic, but I do have a suggestion to get some more FEA that's a based on a tek I read here years ago (credit to that tek). Instead of using all those holes in the side of a plastic box you put a layer of water in the bottom and submerge some aquarium aerators in the water with an aquarium air pump hooked up to them. Make sure the cakes or substrate are at least a few inches above the water layer. The aerators create constant free air exchange by pumping air through the aerator stones and water layer. That setup humidifies and filters the incoming air, and it also creates a positive pressure environment that blows air out of the cracks under the lid. That helps prevent mold spores and that kind of stuff from getting into your fruiting chamber. There's no fanning required and you don't have to remove the lid until you're ready to pick the mushies. It doesn't stop the god damn fruit flies from sneaking into the box though. You're going to have to rely on pure hatred for that. Maybe you can use that alcohol lamp to burn some of them alive and put their heads on little pikes to make an example out of the ones that sneak into the fruiting chamber. If we all do it they might get the message. Those little bastards drag their bacteria riddled feet across everything if they get into a grow.


Other tips:

1. If you're banished to a closet, then it might help to set up the SAB with everything inside it before you bring it into the closet. You can set everything up on the lid, put the box on top, and then seal the little arm holes with some plastic wrap or foil... and then bring the thing into your little punishment room for the rest of the work. Trying to decon the inside of a SAB in a closet would suck, but if you can decon it somewhere else and then work with it in the closet you should be okay.

2. You can wrap stuff in aluminum foil before you put it in the PC. Anything inside the foil stays sterile and then you can carefully peel the foil layer off when you're ready for aseptic technique. That works great for tools and petri dishes. It even works for grain jars if you're feeling paranoid.

3. Like someone else mentioned, propane torches are way easier to work with than alcohol lamps for flame sterilization. I would demolish a house before I tried to solder a pipe with an alcohol lamp. Check the plumbing section or maybe the camping section at the store. That being said, I would also be nervous to have an open flame in that little punishment closet since it already sounds hellish and you don't want to burn your house down or die in a fire. If you've got some extra cash laying around, then your could consider buying and induction sterilizer instead. It uses an electric induction coil to heat metal with electromagnetic field instead of an open flame.

3. You can buy metal mason jar lids in the canning section at the store. They're designed for sterilization and they're cheap.

4. Make bigger arm holes in your SAB so you can work smoothly and easily. They don't have to be that tight and it's more important that your movements inside the SAB are careful and easy. Most contams from the air fall downward or move with air current. As long as you're not working where there's a major breeze or a lot of turbulent air flow, then you should be okay with bigger arm holes. The SAB is mostly about preventing  things from falling down onto your workspace and preventing laminar air flow from passing across your work space. Bigger holes in the front shouldn't be a problem unless you have a fan blowing on one of the holes and not the other or something silly like that. Setup your SAB so you can do the sensitive sterile work near the back if you're worried about a little air leaking in the arm holes. You can even rest your elbows on the arm holes if you put rests in front of the box. Steady hands are important, and resting your elbows makes your hands less shaky. Don't fight the SAB. Make it your friend. It's there to help.

5. If you're worried that you're not pressure cooking long enough, then you can always increase the cook time to be sure. I've heard some arguments against cooking for too long, but I'm not convinced. People have grown mushrooms on cardboard so some slightly overcooked grain should not be a problem as long as it's sterile. I've done a few hours at temp and had no problems. It's way safer to overcook than undercook. Just make sure you have enough water in the bottom of the PC. I usually vent the PC quicker than recommended too. The stuff inside stays hot that way and the extra heat drives off surface condensation so it's bone dry when you take it out of the PC. I don't like liquid running around the surface of stuff that's supposed to stay sterile. I cry a little when my petri dishes come out of the PC with tears running down their sides. It's a sad time for all involved. Petri dishes have feelings too.



I'm happy to see someone working with the hobby like this. After you get the little kinks worked out, then you should be pretty successful. That aquarium air pump setup is what made my fruiting attempts work out better.

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #28348465 - 06/05/23 04:15 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Also - next steps - I have some jars ready to send. I am going to go to my friends house and work from there. I will also leave half the shoeboxes there and take half with me.  I’ve been suspicious of my carpeting for a while just in general. My allergies have been going crazy lately so I figure it can’t hurt.

I’m really looking for an excuse to replace the carpeting in my condo lol.

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OfflineMushyMom
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Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way] * 1
    #28348472 - 06/05/23 04:19 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Way said:
I admire your tenacity. I'm really sorry you are dealing with thia.



Thank you. I will figure this out eventually and giving up is not an option.

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom] * 2
    #28349380 - 06/06/23 09:50 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Holy shit. I looked outside at the stack of the bin of failures and saw this



I guess what they said in Jurassic park is true - life will find a way.

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Invisiblealtford78
What do I put here

Registered: 05/09/23
Posts: 890
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349386 - 06/06/23 09:58 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

That failure looks better than many successful grows. Just saying. :shrug:

I mean there's probably all kinds of nasty shit growing in that bare patch on the left, but still, that's alotta mushrooms.:grannycheer:


--------------------
Mold cultivator extraordinaire

I also dabble in bacteria

I'm also a retard sometimes

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OfflineMushyMom
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Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: altford78]
    #28349387 - 06/06/23 10:03 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

altford78 said:
That failure looks better than many successful grows. Just saying. :shrug:

I mean there's probably all kinds of nasty shit growing in that bare patch on the left, but still, that's alotta mushrooms.:grannycheer:




Right?  I cut out the green. I know it’s already sporated but I took out the worst so at least I don’t have to look at it. I am hoping what’s left is salvageable.  But even if it isn’t - at least I got something to grow


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OfflinePandaskis
Eating Bamboo
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Registered: 03/14/23
Posts: 1,869
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349410 - 06/06/23 10:29 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

As long as you heat treat them (dry or make tea) they should be safe to consume :smile:

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349641 - 06/06/23 02:03 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Over 330 g from that bin so I feel like something is going right - minus the contamination.  😀😀




I’ve tested multiple ways to prep grain. I’ve been using purchased LC and agar I’ve prepped myself and no matter what I’m getting the green. The constant is being in my house. Next test will be sending to fruiting and storing the shoeboxes at a different location.  Just need to keep on keeping on - sometimes a failure is a success.

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InvisibleWay
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349658 - 06/06/23 02:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way]
    #28349670 - 06/06/23 02:24 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Way said:
This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?




I mix the coir in a bucket with boiling water and verm. I bleach the bucket before getting started.

One thing all of these batches had in common is that I used canna coir instead of my usual coco bliss. I had been getting contam with the coco bliss too though so I didn’t think that was the issue.

I’m also tempted to skip the verm on the next batch just to reduce one more possible source of contamination.

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OfflinePandaskis
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Registered: 03/14/23
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349678 - 06/06/23 02:30 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

My guess is it might be a faulty Pressure cooker? Have you tried it with any other PC, i know theyre expensive so you may not have the luxury to do that

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InvisibleWay
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349685 - 06/06/23 02:33 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Way said:
This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?




I mix the coir in a bucket with boiling water and verm. I bleach the bucket before getting started.

One thing all of these batches had in common is that I used canna coir instead of my usual coco bliss. I had been getting contam with the coco bliss too though so I didn’t think that was the issue.

I’m also tempted to skip the verm on the next batch just to reduce one more possible source of contamination.




With your hands or something else?
Only reason I ask is I recall a similar thread where it was finally found out that the guy had been using the same wooden spoon he mixed his grains with on the stove.

Some of the grain water ended up adding just enough nutrition to the coir when he mixed it that the coir would end up harboring contamination and it wouldn't pop up until it was spawned.

Highly unlikely though.


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28349699 - 06/06/23 02:51 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pandaskis said:
My guess is it might be a faulty Pressure cooker? Have you tried it with any other PC, i know theyre expensive so you may not have the luxury to do that




I have a TFal that goes to 15 psi. Buying a presto is on the list if the next steps (working at my friends house and keeping the shoeboxes there)

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OfflineMushyMom
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Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: Way]
    #28349701 - 06/06/23 02:53 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Way said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Way said:
This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?




I mix the coir in a bucket with boiling water and verm. I bleach the bucket before getting started.

One thing all of these batches had in common is that I used canna coir instead of my usual coco bliss. I had been getting contam with the coco bliss too though so I didn’t think that was the issue.

I’m also tempted to skip the verm on the next batch just to reduce one more possible source of contamination.




With your hands or something else?
Only reason I ask is I recall a similar thread where it was finally found out that the guy had been using the same wooden spoon he mixed his grains with on the stove.

Some of the grain water ended up adding just enough nutrition to the coir when he mixed it that the coir would end up harboring contamination and it wouldn't pop up until it was spawned.

Highly unlikely though.




I mix with a metal spatula that I wash through the dishwasher. I also wear the surgical gloves when I’m working - and change them between each batch.

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OfflinePandaskis
Eating Bamboo
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Registered: 03/14/23
Posts: 1,869
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349727 - 06/06/23 03:08 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Pandaskis said:
My guess is it might be a faulty Pressure cooker? Have you tried it with any other PC, i know theyre expensive so you may not have the luxury to do that




I have a TFal that goes to 15 psi. Buying a presto is on the list if the next steps (working at my friends house and keeping the shoeboxes there)




I love my presto :laugh:

Does the TFal use a rocker or a guage?

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Offlinephenyl
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Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349757 - 06/06/23 03:27 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
I’ve tested multiple ways to prep grain. I’ve been using purchased LC and agar I’ve prepped myself and no matter what I’m getting the green. The constant is being in my house. Next test will be sending to fruiting and storing the shoeboxes at a different location.  Just need to keep on keeping on - sometimes a failure is a success.




My bet is still on the SAB not being functionally effective in your environment. I had the same issue when I moved -- plagued me for about 9 months before I relented and bought an FFU. Problem immediately solved.

For me the giveaway was that most of my blank plates were forming colonies a few weeks after being poured. Beefing up my SAB technique helped but never quite solved it. Airbourne bacteria sucks.


--------------------
The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.

Edited by phenyl (06/06/23 03:37 PM)

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InvisibleWay
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: MushyMom]
    #28349758 - 06/06/23 03:28 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Way said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
Quote:

Way said:
This is a super Longshot, what do you use to mix your coir? Like after you add the water and let it absorb, do you stir it or just toss it in the bag and shake with verm?




I mix the coir in a bucket with boiling water and verm. I bleach the bucket before getting started.

One thing all of these batches had in common is that I used canna coir instead of my usual coco bliss. I had been getting contam with the coco bliss too though so I didn’t think that was the issue.

I’m also tempted to skip the verm on the next batch just to reduce one more possible source of contamination.




With your hands or something else?
Only reason I ask is I recall a similar thread where it was finally found out that the guy had been using the same wooden spoon he mixed his grains with on the stove.

Some of the grain water ended up adding just enough nutrition to the coir when he mixed it that the coir would end up harboring contamination and it wouldn't pop up until it was spawned.

Highly unlikely though.




I mix with a metal spatula that I wash through the dishwasher. I also wear the surgical gloves when I’m working - and change them between each batch.




I figured. Worth a shot though. Godspeed.


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.

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OfflineMushyMom
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/21
Posts: 246
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Diagnosing my contamination issues/reviewing technique [Re: phenyl]
    #28350095 - 06/06/23 08:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

phenyl said:
Quote:

MushyMom said:
I’ve tested multiple ways to prep grain. I’ve been using purchased LC and agar I’ve prepped myself and no matter what I’m getting the green. The constant is being in my house. Next test will be sending to fruiting and storing the shoeboxes at a different location.  Just need to keep on keeping on - sometimes a failure is a success.




My bet is still on the SAB not being functionally effective in your environment. I had the same issue when I moved -- plagued me for about 9 months before I relented and bought an FFU. Problem immediately solved.

For me the giveaway was that most of my blank plates were forming colonies a few weeks after being poured. Beefing up my SAB technique helped but never quite solved it. Airbourne bacteria sucks.




Possible but I get 99% clean plates when I pour agar. My jars appear clean but then fail when sent to fruiting - this is across multiple batches done at different tones. If it was the SAB I would expect a higher contamination rate from my plates and a lower contamination rate from my boxes.

I’m not ruling out the SAB. I might try bringing the sab over and inoculating jars at my friends house when I go over to mix coir and make shoeboxes.

I wish I could get a ffu but I really don’t have the space for it right now. Until someone creates a portable one I’m kind of out of luck.

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