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Offlineuki
fool of wisdom
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
why vote?
    #2817490 - 06/22/04 04:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

anyone with any understanding of the election process clearly realizes that your vote doesn't actually matter. ever hear the expression of living in the world, yet being not of the world? we the people has been projected to the masses as... we the people of the goverment. time for change. time to break the system of this world. revolt in everything you do, speak out against the lies, stand up for your beliefs, and when up against the wall... don't back down.


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OfflineMutedMonkeys
Stranger in astrange land...
Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: why vote? [Re: uki]
    #2817587 - 06/22/04 05:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hear, hear! What the world needs is a lot let bullshit. Let We The People rule and find some way to try Bush and Blair for war crimes for starters!


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"Don't pick up a stoner whilst spidered!"


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: why vote? [Re: uki]
    #2817617 - 06/22/04 05:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The most revolutionary thing we need to do is return the government to it's Constitutional boundaries. All this talk of the people rising up and taking back government is NOT what we really need. An all powerful state run by the will of the majority is not so much better than an Aristocracy, Oligarchy, Monarchy, Cleptocracy, etc. take your pick. Utopia would be life without the state. This, however, is impossible due to the nature of humans. We need to work to return government to a size where it can complete it's sole function, protecting our natural rights from the initiation of force.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlineuki
fool of wisdom
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: why vote? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2817635 - 06/22/04 05:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

and in order to do that sometimes the people must physically rise up and change it. remember the u.s.s.r., romania, germany? how about the the revolutionary war... people are to complacent, to molded into there false, secure little world to make any change. it's time for people to snap out of this long, drawn-out day dream... i mean lets face it, most people are fat, sick, fearful, and lazy, just the way the present goverment wants them, so as they cannot gather the strength to take up arms and seek change.


Edited by uki (06/22/04 05:41 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: why vote? [Re: uki]
    #2817651 - 06/22/04 05:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

link

31 Reasons to Vote

by Rob

Don?t blame me, I didn?t vote. ~ Jeremy Sapienza

My barber believes passionately that everyone should vote, and since one of my primary objectives is to persuade people to abstain from politics, I often raise the subject with her during election season. Although our conversations remain cordial, usually they are short and intense (at least her part). Last week she asked me, ?Why would you not vote? I think that?s the most dishonorable and un-American thing you could do.? But it seems to me that it is the voter who must justify his actions, since voting is an affirmative act. Since most voters have never really considered why they vote, I have decided to assist them by providing a list of reasons to vote:

1. You believe that a majority of voters has the right to impose their will on everyone else through the use of force.

2. You want to steal from other people and/or force them to do certain things, but you?d rather have someone else point the gun for you.

3. You believe that the State is legitimate, and want to provide legitimacy to it for the next two to six years.

4. You believe that democracy is a legitimate decision-making process, and don?t mind being bound by the results.

5. You believe that voting will protect you from government or slow the growth of the State.

6. You want to live in a political society instead of a civil society.

7. You prefer to wield political power because you?re too lazy to work for social power.

8. You want the politicians to have a mandate and to be able to say, ?The people have spoken!?

9. You don?t mind if the government helps you decide by narrowing your choices for you.

10. You?re a follower who needs to be led, and believe that everyone else needs ?leaders? who are selected by a majority of the voters.

11. You believe that millions of people gave their lives to defend your right to vote.

12. You want to honor the victims of 9/11, who were killed because some foreigners didn?t like the fact that we live in a democracy.

13. You believe that voting is the way to make your voice heard, and that politicians hear your voice when you vote.

14. You believe that if your candidate wins, you will get what you want, just like you want it.

15. You like the way that politicians have been running things, and want to send them back for more.

16. You believe that politicians will keep their campaign promises.

17. You don?t believe that power will corrupt politicians once they?re in office.

18. You trust the politicians you vote for, and believe they care about you.

19. Your government school taught you that voting is a privilege.

20. You like to exercise your freedom?to choose your master.

21. You believe that your vote will affect the outcome of an election.

22. You believe that voting fraud won?t affect the outcome of an election.

23. You believe that the new touch-screen voting machines are reliable, tamper-proof, and leave an adequate paper trail in case the results are contested.

24. You?re proud to wear the ?I voted? sticker that they give you after you vote.

25. George W. Bush said that it?s your duty to vote.

26. The president's wife or mother called you and asked you to vote.

27. You get a rush out of wielding political power.

28. You think that a politician is cute, or you like the way he kisses his wife, or you like the earth tones he wears, etc.

29. You saw a campaign sign that made you feel patriotic because of its flag motif, or that made you feel good because it had a catchy slogan on it, such as "the courage to lead" or "neighborhoods first."

30. The political ads on TV and radio that cater to the lowest common denominator don't insult your intelligence.

31. You don?t mind your name and other personal information being on a government list, which will come in handy if the government wants to summon you for jury duty, draft you into the military, audit your income tax returns, collect information about you, or send you to an internment camp.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: why vote? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2817686 - 06/22/04 05:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Agreed, just voting is not performing your civic duty. If you believe there is something wrong with this country(as many of us posting here do) you should absolutely get out and do what you can to inform the public. Hand out flyers, write to your local newspaper, call into radio/tv shows, etc. for the movement of your choice.

If you believe in limited government and Laissez-Faire, vote Libertarian. If enough people become cognizant of their message and vote for them, the Republicans will respond and shift back to it's constitutional roots.

If you believe in a more open and democratic United States and also believe government should actively help the people, vote Nader, Green, or (gasp!) Socialist. If enough people do these things the Democrats will respond and shift left.

This is how change through voting is enacted today. Look to the populist and progressive movements of the early 20th century to see this in practice. If you're not voting and you're not being an activist for your cause-of-choice, that's when you lose the (I won't say right to) priviledge of people giving a shit about your gripes with government.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: why vote? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3295714 - 10/30/04 12:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

uki i am fat, lazy, fearful, and i voted today. damn i am screwed!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: why vote? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3295768 - 10/30/04 01:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think your safe, atleast for now..though it wouldn't hurt to be conscious of the fact your vote probably won't make a difference in the outcome


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: why vote? [Re: uki]
    #3295868 - 10/30/04 01:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why vote?

Well, using your words alone...

"we the people of the goverment."
"time for change."
"speak out against the lies."
"stand up for your beliefs."


BTW, you mentioned "the expression" of "living in the world, yet being not of the world?" What does this mean (Iv'e never heard this expression before)? Does it mean living in a country that holds elections and not taking part?


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Offlineoggleman
Stranger
Male
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 281
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: why vote? [Re: Viaggio]
    #3296025 - 10/30/04 02:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Do you do more than just not vote to voice your disdain with politics? Shit man, go around to polling places next tues. and hand out flyers explaining why voting is bullshit. If you do you are taking an active role in the process and trying to express to others why you are doing what you are doing.

Just sitting here and telling us we're a bunch of pussies isn't going to help anything. Skipping voting to sit around and scratch your ass isn't going to help either. Not voting as a strategy to express your disapproval of the system is bullshit, cause your doing the exact opposite.

You say rise up, rebel, whatever, so do it!


--------------------


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: why vote? [Re: oggleman]
    #3296060 - 10/30/04 03:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You say rise up, rebel, whatever, so do it!




a majority of the people must become conscious of the fact that the whole establishment is as good as a fraud - rising up, or rebelling as some may call it may as well be a suicide mission without a rather large army beside you publicly advancing for the same cause. FYI, I don't mean a violent fear monguering army of cowards hiding behind big guns an nukes, but an army of creative, intelligent people.

Our art can equate to their nukes on the conscious level.


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Offlineoggleman
Stranger
Male
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 281
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: why vote? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3296071 - 10/30/04 03:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If art, poetry, song, is your form of rebellion, great, do that. Sounds better than the violence you seemed to think I was advocating.

Just do something! I was just trying to point out the inherent hypocrisy in simply not voting as a political statement.


--------------------


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: why vote? [Re: oggleman]
    #3296098 - 10/30/04 03:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I do what I can from where I am. Why don't you do something other than playing their game like they want you to..or are you?


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Offlineelectioneering
vegan

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 44
Loc: vancouver, bc
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: why vote? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3296234 - 10/30/04 04:59 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

whatever you do, please please please please please inform yourself before voting. honestly, what is worse: not voting or blind voting? vote whenever you get the chance, but remember that voting can be dangerous if you are uninformed. just look at the vast numbers of people who vote based on one or two issues, or because someone told them to vote for someone. that isn't democracy: it's rule of the ignorant.


--------------------
i am a musician


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: why vote? [Re: MutedMonkeys]
    #3296364 - 10/30/04 06:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MutedMonkeys said:
Hear, hear! What the world needs is a lot let bullshit. Let We The People rule and find some way to try Bush and Blair for war crimes for starters!




I still dont understand the concept of a WAR crime. Its war. Lets face it, as soon as war is declared it basically removes any civil agreements either party has made with one another. We could go into a country we are at war with and kill only the women and children and I would think nothing of it. WAR is not supposed to be fair, or civil, or nice, that is why it is war. Now please tell me what kind of crimes these two could have possibly committed. I dont agree with going into Iraq, but once CONGRESS gave the president the power to attack I stopped caring. Do you think people cared during the middle ages when women and children were killed during war? No, they didnt. It didnt phase them at all, same with during the Revolutionary war. Well, the residents of the colonies cared because it was their families, but did the Brits care? Nope because it was a strategy. Unfortunately it was a bad one, but I doubt they felt bad after that.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
Male
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
Loc: Wales (yes it is a countr...
Last seen: 9 years, 15 days
Re: why vote? [Re: AaronEvil]
    #3296408 - 10/30/04 07:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Main Entry: war crime
Function: noun
: an act committed usually during an international war for which individual criminal liability will be imposed by a domestic or international tribunal; specifically : a violation of the laws or customs of war as embodied or recognized by international treaty, court decisions, or established practice ?usually used in pl.


Following World War II, the Charter of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg first codified war crimes including crimes against humanity. Also encompassed in the legal concept of war crimes is the crime of planning or waging a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: why vote? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3296469 - 10/30/04 07:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

My response to you my good friend is this... war is war. I knew all of that before. My point is, war cannot have a crime. If you are going to say we have rules for war then it isnt war. With rules it becomes a sick sadistic game of who has the balls to kill more people. It turns into a Battle Royale if you will. A bunch of people in a single place seeing who can survive the longest without getting killed while obeying these preset rules. I dont think anyone should be charged for war crimes, Americans or not. The concept of controlling war with a set of 'rules' is like trying to control anarchy with a set of guidelines. It contradicts the concept itself. If you remember correctly, before the revolutionary war, and even during the beginning of it, there were set rules of war. For instance, each party needed to meet on a battlefield and fight face to face. The best strategy wins. It was basically generals playing a game of Risk. But that soon failed when the militias realized that they had no chance of winning. So why did they do? They broke that rule. That was the beginning of modern day warfare. But then, people's feelings were getting hurt because they were not smart enough to gut children and rape women so that their opponents would leave them alone. So what did they do? They created 'rules' for war. The simple fact is that if you use inhumane tactics your enemy will become fearful of you and the war will end. Sure, you sacrifice a few innocent people, but remember, its war. I still do not see how 'war crimes' fix that problems we have with war. These war crimes still go on, the difference is that they are happening to our troops not our enemies. Fight fire with fire eh? Isnt that what the cold war was all about? If you nuke me I will nuke you with everything I have. What happened with that? Absolutely nothing. No one attacked anyone with nukes because everyone was fearful. Why not use the same tactic? If you kill our citizens, military or not, we will kill everything living in your country. But no, we dont want to hurt people's feelings. And we definately do not want other countries to be mad at us for solving a problem that they didnt have the balls to solve. Im not saying Iraq was right so lets make it clear I am not specifically talking about Iraq as the problem. I am simply just stating that war crimes are ridiculous.


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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: why vote? [Re: AaronEvil]
    #3296875 - 10/30/04 11:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think the simple objective of war is to remove or cripple your opponent's defense. Without a defense, war cannot be contiued. The fact we have issues such as war crimes and consensual "rules" is actually a positive indicator. Sure, we could simply rape, pillage, torture, and nuke the hell out of each other...but none of that seems necessary. We've come a long way from savage barbariac lifestyles.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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