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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

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A serious question.
#28168452 - 02/02/23 02:14 AM (11 months, 19 days ago) |
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I am not an atheist but I don't know how to relate to theism, I am not against theism, I just don't agree with humans that take religion or something similar and use it to harm others.
I don't think it's the religion which is the issue, but rather that humans often take things which have the potential to help others and use them to harm others because humans often see somethings which is affluent and then figure they can use that things to manipulate others.
Some people say let go but if one says to let go then the person saying to let go is obviously holding onto something, potentially forming a judgment about those that don't let go of that something, lets say that something is spirituality/relgion.
Some humans think they can be God's, some humans think that we can create God by creating technology that will eventually surpass humankind but perhaps that technology will destroy us first which is hotly debated these days. Of course if we created some advanced technology we would still be its parent.
I don't think machines will ever be deities since I don't understand how machines would be able to relate to qualia.
This is one reason scientists think we cannot trust machines alone to take care of humans minds on potential future interstellar space travels, machines don't experience things the way we do.
It seems like if one person says to let go of something they are still attached to the thing because they are aware of it, how can one let go if you're aware of the thing you're trying to let go of? If it's religion/spirituality then wouldn't driving through America make you remember those practices by seeing bumper stickers, churches, state slogans, slogans on US Currency, etc?
Why would a human think that they could be a God since God is a human label, wouldn't labeling something a God just be defining it with humanistic terminology, therefore making that thing not a God?
We don't label a nuke a God because it's made of cold hard metal, yet a nuke for some might be seen as being greater than oneself, is a nuke spiritual?
It seems like the most intelligent thing here is to transcend the label of human Gods, machine Gods, and just be a light all your own.
This might lead one to a sort or Buddhist mode of thinking without the Buddhism, I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I call it the "Bodhi mind" which is a poor label because it points to Buddhism.
I keep it simple, my only religion is Love and the Golden rule!
In a dark cave sits a monk meditating by themselves but the monk is not alone for the monk is creating so much with their mind, so many Gods come into their minds, so many demons, angels, humans, all sorts of things which scream they have amazing powers over one, but the monk knows they're all just projections of their own mind rising from nothing and fading back into nothing, rising from the darkness of the mind, fading back into the darkness of the mind, projections, visualizations of grandeur, but still of the mind.
You don't have to hold on or let go, just be it seems like, which is probably easier said than done.
I don't know how archetypes fit into things, but a mind is truly a terrible thing to waste!
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: A serious question. [Re: Lucis] 3
#28168496 - 02/02/23 03:17 AM (11 months, 19 days ago) |
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I was reminded of a yogi saying everything is prana, all power is, including jet engines, etc., machinery, weaponry, which goes back to mind. If all is mind, all is God or that absolute. The question is purpose which is up to us in a sense, though the absolute can't be broken, changed but for in illusion, so goes in various teachings and that we can determine ourselves.
What to do with theism is up to us including not to use it and it is not necessary. Theism used for the purposes of dharma is no different and no less potent than anything else. The most useful is that which we adopt for our purpose as our pursuits reveal. People pervert and harm, in the illusions, whether it's in theism, atheism, or other, and people harmonize, heal, and liberate in any of them.
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johnukguy
Learning



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Re: A serious question. [Re: Lucis]
#28168511 - 02/02/23 03:36 AM (11 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lucis said:
In a dark cave sits a monk meditating by themselves but the monk is not alone for the monk is creating so much with their mind, so many Gods come into their minds, so many demons, angels, humans, all sorts of things which scream they have amazing powers over one, but the monk knows they're all just projections of their own mind rising from nothing and fading back into nothing, rising from the darkness of the mind, fading back into the darkness of the mind, projections, visualizations of grandeur, but still of the mind.

In Zen there is a similar analogy, if that's the right term, of a monk sitting in a cave with all of what was mentioned going on. It's referred to sometimes as 'The Cave of The Green Dragon,' or something similar. It sounds great and noble and all but it's actually a dead end. The monk has to get off his or her ass, get out of the cave, go down the mountain and, as the saying has it, 'enter the market place with bliss bestowing hands.' This is traditionally said to be the final stage of awakening, detailed in such things as 'The Ten Oxherding Pictures,' from the 13th Century Chan master - Kuoan Shiyuan (Kakuan), which lay out such stages, from first noticing that shit ain't right with us and the world, to waking up to what we and the world together are and how to function from this realization in everyday life and be of service to others.
The Ten Oxherding Pictures
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: A serious question. [Re: Lucis]
#28168547 - 02/02/23 05:06 AM (11 months, 19 days ago) |
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Anti Trust laws prohibit business practices that unreasonably deprive consumers of the benefits of competition - evidently some people believe the Presta valve is superior to the Schrader valve.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Always making me look stuff up. We should have a chatgpt AI extension - "presta valve is this, schrader valve is that, these are the differences, ..."
I took that in two ways - one in religious dogma, the presta valve maintaining contained environment. Also as wanting to remain in the cave and avoid vulnerabilities of mingling.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: A serious question. [Re: syncro] 1
#28168607 - 02/02/23 06:39 AM (11 months, 19 days ago) |
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In context of Ezekiel "The rims were immense, circled with eyes." I doubt the cave allegory..."Everywhere I look, I see your eyes There ain't a woman that comes close to you"
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: A serious question. [Re: Lucis] 1
#28168823 - 02/02/23 10:03 AM (11 months, 19 days ago) |
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Ho! Not just a serious question but a series of questions.
Without going through it all, am I seeing clearly a theme to the questions, which revolves around holding/letting go?
Is that the overarching question? What does it mean to let go? What does it mean to hold? And what remains if one let's go of letting go?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: In context of Ezekiel "The rims were immense, circled with eyes." I doubt the cave allegory..."Everywhere I look, I see your eyes There ain't a woman that comes close to you"
Granted, but as we have learned, that is fulfilled at its source beyond the physical. That we didn't resolve it may be why we came back, among other things.
Reading Ezekiel 1 I was more convinced of the theory they were on entheogens, or something was giving them awesome visions.
Edited by syncro (02/02/23 10:39 AM)
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


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Re: A serious question. [Re: Lucis] 3
#28169071 - 02/02/23 12:39 PM (11 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lucis said:
Some people say let go but if one says to let go then the person saying to let go is obviously holding onto something, potentially forming a judgment about those that don't let go of that something, lets say that something is spirituality/relgion.
......
It seems like if one person says to let go of something they are still attached to the thing because they are aware of it, how can one let go if you're aware of the thing you're trying to let go of? If it's religion/spirituality then wouldn't driving through America make you remember those practices by seeing bumper stickers, churches, state slogans, slogans on US Currency, etc?
......
You don't have to hold on or let go, just be it seems like, which is probably easier said than done.
It depends what you mean by "let go".
IME generally when people say they are trying to let go of religion, they mean that they are trying to let go of the fear that has been embedded in them by religious indoctrination, like the irrational fear of hell or the fear of judgment.
Letting go doesn't mean you pretend these ideas don't exist, it just means you let go of the control they have over you.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
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Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Anti Trust Presta valve is superior to the Schrader valve.
Presta all day!
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

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Re: A serious question. [Re: Kickle]
#28170096 - 02/02/23 11:39 PM (11 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Is that the overarching question? What does it mean to let go? What does it mean to hold? And what remains if one let's go of letting go?
yes
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: A serious question. [Re: Lucis]
#28170150 - 02/03/23 12:33 AM (11 months, 18 days ago) |
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Some people believe that a disembodied spirit may possess an inanimate object, clone, or machine.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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That's why my lawnmower doesn't start! Who do I consult to see which deity I have to appease?
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Vishwakarma, though I didn't remember that til now searching, known as the craftsman god.
Om Vishwakarmane Namaha
Edited by syncro (02/03/23 06:34 AM)
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: A serious question. [Re: syncro]
#28170379 - 02/03/23 06:56 AM (11 months, 18 days ago) |
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I read that and my phone froze.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Edited by syncro (02/03/23 08:36 AM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Quote:
Lucis said: I don't think machines will ever be deities since I don't understand how machines would be able to relate to qualia.
Quote:
durian_2008 said: Some people believe that a disembodied spirit may possess an inanimate object, clone, or machine.
Quote:
Buster_Brown said: That's why my lawnmower doesn't start! Who do I consult to see which deity I have to appease?
Is there one?
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Quote:
durian_2008 said:
Quote:
Buster_Brown said: That's why my lawnmower doesn't start! Who do I consult to see which deity I have to appease?
Is there one?
Well, we won't insist that Synchro's contribution provided some insight.
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