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OfflineTodcasil
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smile on your brother
    #2816115 - 06/22/04 05:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

this may or may not have been discussed.

i see people wanting to help others and be giving, unselfish and martyr like. (i give because it makes people feel better, and i feel better because of it)

i see some people wanting to kill off other people, because we are just destroying the environment, or something like, we are all evil. (the world would be better without us on it)

i see some people not doing anything, in hopes they wont be judged as one of the two above types. (they will notice my neutralityif we are all neutral the world would be much better. or somesuch thoughts)

all those, in varying degrees.

observation: they all want to make the world a better place. just for themselves, others, or the world "it"self.

so could it be said that everyone just wants to make the world a better place?

is this the one thing that we have in commen, though it can tear families/cultures/countries apart?

i just thought id share that... after reading a post by frog, i started thinking this.

she said something like "... the intrinsic nature of people is to make the world a better place..." misquoted probably, but i think the thread wont suffer because of that.

what do you think?

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Todcasil]
    #2816574 - 06/22/04 10:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

so could it be said that everyone just wants to make the world a better place?

Some people really do want to make the world better for everyone, others just want to make the world better for themselves.


--------------------


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Todcasil]
    #2816665 - 06/22/04 11:31 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Whenever Bush smiles (or smirks), I get a chill up my spine.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Swami]
    #2816672 - 06/22/04 11:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Whenever Bush smiles (or smirks), I get a chill up my spine.



he scares the bejesus out of me and I never even had one!


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OfflineSource
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Todcasil]
    #2816732 - 06/22/04 12:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think I agree that for the most part everyone is trying to change the world. Some are trying to improve it for others, most are trying to improve it for themselves.

Both are futile.

I had a personal epiphany regarding this. My personal realization is that there is simply no way I can make the world 'better' for me or for anyone else. I am not here to change the world. The world is reality, reality is truth, truth is God. To try to change the world to better suit me or others is to try to change God (or whatever you wanna call it).

All that I can do is completely accept every variety of experience as a manifestation of reality - a different face of God. Pollution, child abuse, nuclear warheads, the corporate greed machine, toxic waste, viruses, extinction, poverty and war are just as much a manifestation of the absolute as beauty, happiness, peace and bounty are. I have to accept everything, not just half of it.

Now the paradox. Only after I completely accept reality can I move to change it.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Source]
    #2817069 - 06/22/04 02:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"I would say that the inherent nature of humans is to make themselves happier"

i agree... i was just saying that they are making the world a better place for *something*. my point was we are all trying to do it. (wether it is for ourselves or not is beyond the point, but it is true.) i agree vaka!

exclusive58, even if you want to make the world a better place just for yourself, you still want to make it a better place, right? i have yet to meet somebody who doesnt think their view of the world was the correct view, otherwise they wouldnt even have it! ive seen people say against this, some things like "i dont want to live here, im just gonna kill myself" so the world would be much better to them if they left. or, "why should i do anything, everone just fucks it up anyways", translation: the world would be a better place if just didnt try, they nbody would fail (or some such). interesting.

swami, redgreenvines: bush is out for persoanl gain. he sees himself as the mailed fist of america, when really hes just tying our hands behind our back. ill take this moment to tell everbody to vote!

source: "what your searching for is whats searching" is awesome. do we want to change the world after enlightenment? should we, can we? or will we just accept it as it is, and will be. our mere presence of buhddahood changing perceptions around us?

peace
Casil


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Todcasil]
    #2817092 - 06/22/04 02:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Id have to say most of us follow the felicific calculus, which is we each try to maximize our own pleasure and minimize our own pain. I think a better philosophy that would want to make the world a better place would be if we all tried to maximize everybody's pleasure and especially minimize everybody's pain. Just a matter of seeing through the me/you us/them illusion...

some of us care only about ourselves and no one else. Some only care about their families or friends. Others care only about people of their religion, race, age, philosophy, sexual orientation, nation, culture etc...

the truth is this is all bullshit. Borders are illusions. everyone is equal and equally deserving of love and compassion. Id even go so far as to say every living thing, even non human, should be treated with compassion.

But hey thats just me, resume nucleur bombing at will...
i mean we gotta show them japs/chinks/towelheads etc whose boss
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


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OfflineSource
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Todcasil]
    #2817097 - 06/22/04 02:36 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Todcasil,

I think maybe to 'accept the world as it is' IS enlightenment. After that our actions will naturally be in accord with the flow of reality and our only desire will be to wake people up (if there is 'anyone' to wake up) rather than change the world. Maybe this world and it's sufferings are like a vice pressing coal into the occasional diamond.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2817106 - 06/22/04 02:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Id even go so far as to say every living thing, even non human, should be treated with compassion.

Yes, we should all live on air and sunshine without taking a life to survive even though that it is the way it is.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Swami]
    #2817130 - 06/22/04 02:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i didnt say we shouldnt take life, i said we should try to treat everything with compassion. This is the differance between killing and eating a pig, and the absolute cruelty and torture that occurs in factory farms. (www.meatyourmeat.com)

compassion means treating everything as well as we can, and causing no unnescessary suffering. If you must take a life (and we must) than do it as rarely as possible, as painlessly as possible, and with reverance and respect. This is compassion.


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OfflineSource
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2817177 - 06/22/04 03:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Would that you could live on the fragerance of the earth, and like an air plant be sustained by the light.

But since you must kill to eat, and rob the young of its mother's milk to quench your thirst, let it then be an act of worship,

And let your board stand an altar on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in man.

When you kill a beast say to him in your heart,

"By the same power that slays you, I to am slain; and I too shall be consumed.
For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.

Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven."

And when you crush an apple with your teeth, say to it in your heart,

"Your seeds shall live in my body,

And the buds of your tomorrow shall blossom in my heart,

And your fragrance shall be my breath,

And together we shall rejoice through all the seasons."

And in the autumn, when you gather the grapes of your vineyard for the winepress, say in you heart,

"I to am a vinyard, and my fruit shall be gathered for the winepress,

And like new wine I shall be kept in eternal vessels."

And in winter, when you draw the wine, let there be in your heart a song for each cup;

And let there be in the song a remembrance for the autumn days, and for the vineyard, and for the winepress.

- Gibran


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2817230 - 06/22/04 03:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

compassion means treating everything as well as we can, and causing no unnescessary suffering. If you must take a life (and we must) than do it as rarely as possible, as painlessly as possible, and with reverance and respect.

Uh huh. Honest answer please. If you were in the Middle East and caught by a terrorist organization, would you rather:

A. be tortured and then let go.

B. be killed relatively painlessly.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Source]
    #2817241 - 06/22/04 03:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

When you kill a beast say to him in your heart,

"By the same power that slays you, I to am slain; and I too shall be consumed.
For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.

Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven."


As the beast probably does not get nor care about your "heart" message, it is merely mumbling to oneself to assuage any guilt.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSource
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Swami]
    #2817603 - 06/22/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know about that. I think it's more of a reflection that we are all in the same boat. A nod to the fact that we will all be consumed one day by the great engine that is the universe - "the sap that feeds the tree of heaven"...A restatement that energy is neither created nor destroyed it just keeps on movin'.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: smile on your brother [Re: Source]
    #2817870 - 06/22/04 06:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

id say let me die. any other day just wouldnt be today.

honest answer.

also: giving thanks, treating everything with respect doesnt relieve any guilt, if that guilt doesnt exist. ive killed animals and plants, not givin any thanks and have not been guilty. i still dont feel bad about past occurances ive had. but i do see the power in treating new experiences with respect. i do recognize that.

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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