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InvisibleautomanM
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a question to libertarians from a libertarian
    #2816018 - 06/22/04 03:09 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

if we lived in a libertarian society and someone broke one of our few laws, how would we punish them? what would a murderer get? what about involuntary manslaughter? killing someones dog? what if a drunk college student threw a water ballon off an overpass as a joke and caused a 5 car pileup that killed 1 and injured 3? etc?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: automan]
    #2816023 - 06/22/04 03:14 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

A liberatarian, typically believes the government's only job is protecting its citizens. This would include violence, murder, or war I suppose.


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: Rose]
    #2816026 - 06/22/04 03:17 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

not my question. what would our punishments consist of?


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: automan]
    #2816027 - 06/22/04 03:17 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

automan said:
if we lived in a libertarian society and someone broke one of our few laws, how would we punish them? what would a murderer get? what about involuntary manslaughter? killing someones dog? what if a drunk college student threw a water ballon off an overpass as a joke and caused a 5 car pileup that killed 1 and injured 3? etc?




Punishment would be set up much like it is now, with the severity of the punishment being determined by the severity of the crime. No "cruel or inhumane" punishments would be allowed, the death penalty would be allowed. The lack of initiation of force would be, as is now, "unless prescribed by due process of law".


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2816030 - 06/22/04 03:19 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

so, we would have prisons?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: automan]
    #2816031 - 06/22/04 03:20 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Euthanasia comes to mind.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: automan]
    #2816061 - 06/22/04 03:49 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yup, we'd have prisons.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2816210 - 06/22/04 07:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

No "cruel or inhumane" punishments would be allowed, the death penalty would be allowed.




I take it thats a typo as most people would consider death by lethal injection, electric chair, gas chamber etc etc fairly cruel and inhumane.


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Always Smi2le


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: GazzBut]
    #2816212 - 06/22/04 07:16 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Take it as you being a fool. The people that WROTE the document that I alluded to had the death penalty. If you could show that the majority of the people are against the death penalty, you might have a case. Maybe you could check recent supreme court decisions. Great job being off topic too! You get your Gold Liberal Star for the day.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2816228 - 06/22/04 07:29 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Lol. You didnt even allude to any document as far as I can see. If you did its a document I havent read. I merely pointed out your statement looked fairly imbecilic (I wonder why...). No cruelty or inhumanity but we will kill people....Duh!!! gold lobotomy star of the day for you...again.


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: GazzBut]
    #2816270 - 06/22/04 07:58 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

most people would consider death by lethal injection, electric chair, gas chamber etc etc fairly cruel and inhumane




who are these people then? Most? Where has there ever been a majority against the death penalty. I know many here would like noithing more than to snuggle up to a murderer and/or a seriel killer and claim it's cruel and inhumane to prick him/her with a needle when their precious murderer just got done bashing a womans head in after raping her or shooting a law-abiding family. wow, it seems the priorities have shifted a tad.


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2816283 - 06/22/04 08:05 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

One could argue its cruel not to execute murderers, seems they usually have to spend a large part of their life behind bars with little personal freedom..


Surely thats inhumane, we want free range convicts :P


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2816290 - 06/22/04 08:08 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ok I made an assumption. Fair enough, but if killing somebody isnt cruel what is?

Just because you believe it is justified if that person has done something cruel does not negate the cruelty inherent in killing someone, imho.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: GazzBut]
    #2816311 - 06/22/04 08:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fair enough, but if killing somebody isnt cruel what is?




Killing someone (with an injection) who has caused physical, mental and sexual pain to an innocent life loses societal compassion IMHO. Cruel to me would be if we tortured the criminal (BTW a lot of people would love to torture these criminals/cowards) and prolonged his/her death causing large amounts of pain and anguish. Since I haven't had any friends or family murdered by someone I can only say that the needle is the best and probably the cheapest and most humane. If my wife was raped and killed i'd probably want that man killed in the same way that my wife was. I have NO compassion for someone who would kill an innocent person in cold blood.

Quote:

Just because you believe it is justified if that person has done something cruel does not negate the cruelty inherent in killing someone, imho.




until it happens to someone close to you. How would you feel if your mother or sister was raped and killed? I'm guessing I could probably predict that.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: GazzBut]
    #2816334 - 06/22/04 08:35 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Lol. You didnt even allude to any document as far as I can see. If you did its a document I havent read. I merely pointed out your statement looked fairly imbecilic (I wonder why...). No cruelty or inhumanity but we will kill people....Duh!!! gold lobotomy star of the day for you...again.




You have never read any document that has the phrase "cruel [and] unusual punishment" in it? I don't even need to continue this discussion with you then. Try searching for that EXACT phrase. I bet you might get a witsy wittle matchy watchy.

<edit> I got bored and decided to help your little education along a bit.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...G=Google+Search

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment08/

Hey look at that! That weird, unknown phrase that I said came from the US constitution. Now, are you saying that your lack of reading one of the founding documents of the USA somehow relates to my ignorance?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: automan]
    #2816382 - 06/22/04 09:00 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I see no reason to abolish the concept of imprisonment. It is not a concept in opposition to Libertarian principle.

The problem with the penal system in place in Western societies today is not that prisons exist but that there are too many laws on the books which lead to peaceful people ending up in them.

pinky


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2816391 - 06/22/04 09:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Now, are you saying that your lack of reading one of the founding documents of the USA somehow relates to my ignorance?




he's a limey, cut him some slack mang.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2816401 - 06/22/04 09:06 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah back off  :smirk:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: automan]
    #2816842 - 06/22/04 01:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I am opposed to the government committing murder just as I am opposed to it committing theft. Murdering a murderer and stealing from a thief are both not acceptable. Two wrongs don't make a right. Now, confining them from the rest of society via incarceration for the rest of their life sounds reasonable to me.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: a question to libertarians from a libertarian [Re: silversoul7]
    #2816932 - 06/22/04 01:32 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think we should drop all the murderers off on some inescapable island so they can all duke it out together, kinda like in that movie 'No Escape'. Man, that was a sweet movie. Oh, yeah, we would have to tatoo something like 'Free Kill' on all their foreheads in case they escaped, so everyone would know they were escaped murderers.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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