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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Presto 23qt vent time
    #28158498 - 01/26/23 02:53 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

For those of you using a Presto 23qt pressure cooker to sterilize 4x 5lb substrate bags, how long does it take for you to see a visible cone of steam from the vent once the safety fuse pops up?

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InvisibleScrimshaw
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Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28158617 - 01/26/23 03:53 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

For me, once that vent pops up, the steam coming out is already visible and has been for a while. Once the safety valve pops up, that’s when I start my timer for 15-20min just to be safe.

The time for the valve to pop will vary depending on your stove, but with my cadco burner and the presto full of bags, I’m thinking it takes about 60ish minutes before I start my vent timer.

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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: Scrimshaw]
    #28158746 - 01/26/23 05:21 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I've been venting for 10 minutes after the safety fuse pops up, but I cannot see steam. I can feel hot, barely humid air coming out, but it is not visible.

I've been trying to address contamination issues, and read that it should be 10 minutes of visible steam. I suspected I wasn't venting properly, so today when trying to sterilize substrate bags, it took about 30-40 min for the safety fuse to pop up, then I watched for steam for about another 40 minutes before I aborted the cook, concerned that I cooked off too much water.

I'm going to check the water level in the morning and try again. I suspect I've been using too much water, afraid that I'm going to go dry on a 2.5 hr pressure cook. For what it's worth, I'm running an induction-ready Presto 23qt on an 8" NUWAVE Gold Precision Induction cooktop.

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InvisibleSoutherner
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Registered: 03/25/21
Posts: 609
Loc: South
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28159169 - 01/26/23 10:29 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Once the cover lock pops up there will be plenty of steam coming out as noted above. Sometimes it’s not as visible as when you’re boiling a pot of water but maybe try shining a light over the nozzle if you’re having trouble seeing it.

Share a few more details about your contamination issues. When/where are they showing up, what does it look like, etc.?

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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: Southerner] * 1
    #28159268 - 01/27/23 12:09 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

What is important is that the pin is up and closed which tells you you are producing steam. Let it steam for 10 mins and place on the weight. Once the pin is up all the air has to be forced out so you will be good to go.

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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #28159438 - 01/27/23 07:42 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the responses. I'll try again today.

Contamination issues - mostly at the start and end of the process. My agar and liquid culture technique needs dialed in. My homemade SAB is too small which results in fumbles and I can't work with large jars or bags in it. I'm planning on purchasing a Bella Bora SAB, which is much larger than my current SAB, until I can afford a laminar flow hood.

I recently got contamination in two fruiting blocks, although the grain spawn which I put into the bags looked fine, which led me to think that either my substrate making / sterilization process is problematic, or the S2B transfer process is problematic, or both.

So I'm trying to dial in my environment and my technique, and work through reducing contamination sources and vectors, which led me to question my sterilization technique.

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InvisibleSoutherner
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Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron] * 1
    #28159547 - 01/27/23 09:10 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Good point, Shrooms.

I’d definitely recommend against the bora but it’s your money. A large tote or two of them stacked would be a much cheaper option. SABs definitely take some getting used to and trial and error to see what works for you. I know some folks on here have used them successfully with bags but I don’t have any experience with that.

Until you’ve got your agar game 100% I’d say avoid making LC. It’s harder to tell if it’s clean, especially with mold. Bacteria will show itself as turbidity but mold can mingle with the mushroom myc and be hidden. What are the contaminations you’ve had? Also, what species are you growing?

Sounds like you’re on the right track though. We’ve all eaten a ton of shit at one point or another in cultivation. It’s a game of practice and patience.

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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: Southerner]
    #28159808 - 01/27/23 12:42 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

The SAB I'm using is below. The bottom is slippery, so I have a silicon mat down to prevent the rack from sliding around. I can't fit much in the SAB or on the rack. I was planning to build a large one, but the total cost of parts was approaching the Bella Bora ($98.99 w/ free shipping), and it seemed like a simple upgrade.



Regarding the steam vent, when cooking today I did notice some visible steam if I looked at it with a dark background (vs. white walls), so I'm going with it.

I got super-enthusiastic about fungi and cultivation, and wanted to do everything (mistake) at a scale that was greater than my experience (mistake). I'm trying to get a reliable flow of mushrooms going in time to sell at farmers markets in the Spring, so I've been "all in" (mistake). I got into too many techniques at once, spread myself way too thin, and it is now catching up to me. Frankly I'm getting a bit burnt out with the constant cooking grind and the associated bottlenecks, all of the failed experiments and contamination, and absolutely no mushrooms yet.

I now see I need to focus on maybe two or three species (some Oysters and Lion's Mane), and hold off on the large variety I've been doing (Pink Oyster, Golden Oyster, Lion's Mane, Reishi, Turkey Tail, Shiitake). I also need to perfect my techniques - agar work, grain spawn, bulk substrate. I think the SAB I have is way too small, along with the rack at the bottom, and need to improve it. If the Bella Bora is that bad (why?), I'm open to recommendations.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond, and sorry for the rant/dump.

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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28159830 - 01/27/23 01:02 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Also regarding liquid culture - it was mentioned to perfect my agar technique before making LC. Do you recommend doing vendor-supplied LC > Agar > GS until I perfect my agar technique? I've been buying LC and trying to expand it into more LC. I've got around 5 pint jars of LC going, so I may still try to use the ones that look healthy. I do have one that recently lost its clarity, and a Turkey Tail that I can't tell if it's contaminated or if it is aggressively trying to form a body (terminology?). I'll make a separate post about that TT LC. Tx

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InvisibleSoutherner
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Posts: 609
Loc: South
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28160545 - 01/27/23 09:35 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

If you take the lid off of your SAB and place another bin exactly like that one flipped upside down you can double that up. Or two larger sizes. An FFU makes things a lot easier though.

I agree with narrowing it down to a couple species. Fine tune those and add more when you have the resources too. Also you are trying to grow both cold weather species and hot weather species. Shiitake takes months too. Probably wait on those until you have a lot of room for additional blocks to sit. You can grow the different species seasonally or if you’re able to control the temps of your fruiting tent you can grow specific species year round. Have you figured out a fruiting situation?

If you haven’t yet definitely take a drop of LC to agar and make master dishes from it. From there you can expand to more agar, grains, make more LC, etc.

LC that lost its clarity is likely bacterial.

Edited by Southerner (01/27/23 09:38 PM)

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OfflineCapt. Ramius
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Registered: 11/22/22
Posts: 107
Loc: Bottom of tea sea
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Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28160803 - 01/28/23 04:55 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

neutron said:
The SAB I'm using is below. The bottom is slippery, so I have a silicon mat down to prevent the rack from sliding around. I can't fit much in the SAB or on the rack.





Can't really see the dimensions of your SAB, but have you considered using it the other way around? Flipping it so that the lid is the bottom. That way you can crack it open a little and slide bags into the SAB with a bit less contamination risk, imo. I'm also doing bags in my SAB (20x16x12").

Quote:

neutron said:
I now see I need to focus on maybe two or three species (some Oysters and Lion's Mane), and hold off on the large variety I've been doing (Pink Oyster, Golden Oyster, Lion's Mane, Reishi, Turkey Tail, Shiitake). I also need to perfect my techniques - agar work, grain spawn, bulk substrate. I think the SAB I have is way too small, along with the rack at the bottom, and need to improve it. If the Bella Bora is that bad (why?), I'm open to recommendations.




How about doing pink oysters in straw? Only pasteurize and inoculate in open air.

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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: Southerner]
    #28161071 - 01/28/23 09:40 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If you take the lid off of your SAB and place another bin exactly like that one flipped upside down you can double that up. Or two larger sizes. An FFU makes things a lot easier though.



I can't find larger clear bins, so I'll try doubling them up for now, and finding a bigger rack for the bottom. While that provides more height, it doesn't solve the problem of the small LxW work area, but it seems better than what I am using now.

Quote:

I agree with narrowing it down to a couple species. Fine tune those and add more when you have the resources too. Also you are trying to grow both cold weather species and hot weather species.



The cultures I bought did not specify cold or hot weather varieties.

Quote:

Shiitake takes months too. Probably wait on those until you have a lot of room for additional blocks to sit.



I think I might defer Shiitake to outdoor log growing for now, not worry about getting fruits this year, and have it as a special / seasonal offering.

Quote:

Have you figured out a fruiting situation?



I set up a 10x10 grow tent w/ exhaust. I have a little humidifier for now, and am planning to build an ultrasonic humidifier tub. I'm using metal rack shelving on casters.

Quote:

If you haven’t yet definitely take a drop of LC to agar and make master dishes from it. From there you can expand to more agar, grains, make more LC, etc.



I'll do this next time I get LC from a vendor, and I'll probably do it with my self-expanded LC as an exercise.

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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: Capt. Ramius]
    #28161075 - 01/28/23 09:47 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Capt. Ramius said:
Can't really see the dimensions of your SAB, but have you considered using it the other way around? Flipping it so that the lid is the bottom. That way you can crack it open a little and slide bags into the SAB with a bit less contamination risk, imo. I'm also doing bags in my SAB (20x16x12").



I started off with it upside-down, and flipped it right-side-up to see if it helped. Either way it's pretty difficult to do clean precise work inside of it.

Quote:

Capt. Ramius said:
How about doing pink oysters in straw? Only pasteurize and inoculate in open air.



I'll look into it, thanks.

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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28161110 - 01/28/23 10:23 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Its been so long since ive used a SAB but are racks really necessary in that situation? Racks are generally used in a flowhood if you need to raise your petris up above the bottom of the fh into the flow of air.

A SAB is meant to have little to no air moving around so is a rack helpful? it seems like it just muddles up the already confined space.

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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: deadmandave]
    #28161134 - 01/28/23 10:45 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deadmandave said:
Its been so long since ive used a SAB but are racks really necessary in that situation? Racks are generally used in a flowhood if you need to raise your petris up above the bottom of the fh into the flow of air.

A SAB is meant to have little to no air moving around so is a rack helpful? it seems like it just muddles up the already confined space.




From what I learned from reading too many articles and watching too many videos, the idea is to clean the SAB, let it sit for 30 min or so to let the air come to a still state, and let any contaminants fall to the floor of the SAB; the rack is to raise sensitive work above the layer of contaminants on the floor of the SAB. It might be more of a pseudoscience thing, and I'm tempted to stop using it because it is also slippery, and leads to fumbles.

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Invisibleneutron
Nucleon

Registered: 12/21/22
Posts: 51
Loc: Terra, Sol
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28161149 - 01/28/23 10:51 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I just did another batch of S2B from quart jars to 4x 5lb substrate bags. I tried doing it all in the SAB, which was difficult and clumsy but we'll see how it goes.

Another suspected contamination vector I noticed was after pulling the bag out of the SAB to seal it in the impulse sealer. The mouth of the bags took some work to straighten them out from being "mashed" in the PC, and the impulse sealer I have is junk, and takes a few attempts to get a decent seal without overly melting the bag.

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OfflineCapt. Ramius
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Registered: 11/22/22
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Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28161361 - 01/28/23 01:01 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I don't use a rack in my SAB. I close my bag by folding it inside the SAB, sliding it out and taping it shut.

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InvisibleSoutherner
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Registered: 03/25/21
Posts: 609
Loc: South
Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: Capt. Ramius]
    #28161465 - 01/28/23 02:37 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Have you considered using Lipas method of just fuel pellets and boiling water and forgoing the supplements and sterilization at first?

Pulling the bag out to seal sounds iffy. If you can’t get the sealer in the SAB you might try using zip ties. Or maybe you could fold a small flap the length of the opening then take it out and seal it folded over. Not sure the heat would seal through both though. I don’t have a sealer so I can’t help much on that.

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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: neutron]
    #28162031 - 01/28/23 09:31 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

neutron said:
I just did another batch of S2B from quart jars to 4x 5lb substrate bags. I tried doing it all in the SAB, which was difficult and clumsy but we'll see how it goes.

Another suspected contamination vector I noticed was after pulling the bag out of the SAB to seal it in the impulse sealer. The mouth of the bags took some work to straighten them out from being "mashed" in the PC, and the impulse sealer I have is junk, and takes a few attempts to get a decent seal without overly melting the bag.




stop using an impulse sealer they take too long and you can't reopen them when you are ready to fruit. Buy releasable cable ties they are basically zip ties that are releasable so they can be reused and yes they can be put in the PC with no problem. They are $7.35 for 100 pcs...

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Releasable-cable-50LBS-100pcs/dp/B004C4ZRIK/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1OBN47WW2W2AP&keywords=monoprice%2Bcable%2Bties&qid=1674966515&sprefix=monoprice%2Bcable%2Bties%2Caps%2C101&sr=8-10&th=1

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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Presto 23qt vent time [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #28163339 - 01/29/23 06:39 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

:whathesaid:

Bags in a sab is sketchy enough as it is. Taking the bag out and fumbling around with a sealer is a definite recipe for disaster. I still say stick with jars until you have a flowhood

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