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 TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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 Inoculation Timeframe Question 
#28144348 - 01/17/23 12:02 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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New member, first post, first attempt at growing.
I purchased sterile rye grain bags and Golden Teacher spore syringe online. Inoculated using best aseptic technique with available resources (small bathroom, bleached, furnace/fans off for > 1 hr., etc.)
After 6 days I am still not seeing any mycorrhizae. Grain bags are in a closed cardboard box. Ambient temp is 70.2 deg. F, 42% humidity.
At what point do you concede and start over?
Is it necessary to open the grain bags during inoculation?
Thanks in advance!
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
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HappinessStan
Fungivore
 
Registered: 10/10/12
Posts: 1,757
Loc: Worcester, UK
Last seen: 41 minutes, 4 seconds
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 Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: TieDyeCamo] 2
#28144362 - 01/17/23 12:09 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TieDyeCamo said:
New member, first post, first attempt at growing.
I purchased sterile rye grain bags and Golden Teacher spore syringe online. Inoculated using best aseptic technique with available resources (small bathroom, bleached, furnace/fans off for > 1 hr., etc.)
After 6 days I am still not seeing any mycorrhizae. Grain bags are in a closed cardboard box. Ambient temp is 70.2 deg. F, 42% humidity.
At what point do you concede and start over?
Is it necessary to open the grain bags during inoculation?
Thanks in advance!
Just do pftek, or learn agar. Do you still have spore solution left?
6 days isn't enought to see germination in a grain jar/bag from spore solution, but you're not likely to have much success. Search pftek here and come back to us.
Don't buy kits or pre-prepped stuff, just learn here how to do it yourself, and listen to the advice from the good people on shroomery.
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Thanks for the feedback, HappinessStan. No spore solution left but I just discovered Shroomery's trusted resources tab. I'll just get another, no biggie.
I'm going to pump the breaks and do pftek next, as you suggest.
For learning purposes, can you clarify why I'm not likely to find success?
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
Edited by TieDyeCamo (01/17/23 12:21 PM)
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 ruawakeyet
Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: TieDyeCamo]
#28144394 - 01/17/23 12:31 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TieDyeCamo said:
At what point do you concede and start over?
The instant you shot spore solution into grains, that's when.
HappinessStan is spot on with all advice he gave. Do PF Tek and start over. You can keep the current project to see what it does, but there's a great chance it will fail.
Spore syringes are inherently contaminated, and attempting to colonize straight grain requires cleaning up the culture on agar first, otherwise the contaminants outgrow the targeted mycelium.
Shooting spores into BRF and Verm cakes works because the verm contains the contaminants and you have a solid cake that doesn't get shaken up and therefore doesn't distribute the contaminants all over.
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: ruawakeyet]
#28149103 - 01/20/23 02:36 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Hmmm, I did a lot of research before starting and I came across a lot of folks who use spore syringes directly into grain bags. Your criticism is noted and I appreciate it.
Looks like I just needed to bump the temp up to ~85 deg F to break the dormancy. Bags are now colonizing.
I'm taking the advice and going to do PF Tek next. After looking more into agar like you suggest, I do like the amount of control.
Still learning and am confused by your comment about shooting spores into Verm cakes "because the verm contains the contaminants..." Can you clarify this?
Thanks again!
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
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Excess Taters
Highentist
Registered: 08/29/22
Posts: 874
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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 Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: TieDyeCamo]
#28149127 - 01/20/23 02:46 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Spore syringes are contaminated. This is because when you grow mushrooms, there is fresh air exchange. FAE. With that comes mold spores and various contaminants. They get up in the gills of the mushrooms, so when the mushroom sporulates, it shoots all of that down. Those spore prints are how spore syringes are generally made.
So all spore syringes are dirty. If you shoot spores into grain, you will maybe have 30-50% success rate, and you'll get less mushrooms on average. If you shoot spores into pf Tek cakes, then you've done the right thing and you'll have a very, very high success rate. For some reason, pf Tek cakes are very contaminant resistant, making them ideal for spore syringes.
When you get deeper into the hobby we use agar, li, lc, glc, etc. Lots of ways to avoid any contaminants, but you're probably a few grows away from that.
My advice is follow my sigs advice, it's got the best teks for this stuff lined up for ya. Also don't use a sgfc, seriously. Just do a water tub.
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If you've never grown mushrooms before, here's how you start. First, follow the Updated PF Tek, put 4 holes in jar lids not 1, and use a water tub!
The next move is Shoebox Tek. After that you move onto grains, agar, monotubs. Agar is easy, just do it.
Other useful links - Picture guide for how things should look and proper surface conditions guide
Growing APE or PE? P9 pseudo casing tek
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 RockinRobot
Stranger
Registered: 12/08/22
Posts: 1,227
Last seen: 5 minutes, 55 seconds
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: TieDyeCamo]
#28149130 - 01/20/23 02:49 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TieDyeCamo said:
Hmmm, I did a lot of research before starting and I came across a lot of folks who use spore syringes directly into grain bags. Your criticism is noted and I appreciate it.
Looks like I just needed to bump the temp up to ~85 deg F to break the dormancy. Bags are now colonizing.
I'm taking the advice and going to do PF Tek next. After looking more into agar like you suggest, I do like the amount of control.
Still learning and am confused by your comment about shooting spores into Verm cakes "because the verm contains the contaminants..." Can you clarify this?
Thanks again!
Don't take it to heart. Many of us (myself included) started our research on youtube, where the majority of videos show spore to grain, only to come here and find out that, although it's possible to get fruit that way, it's luck of the draw. What's even worse is a lot of vendors, both good and bad, also promote this because they want to sell you stuff.
As a new grower myself (started beginning of December) I highly recommend reading the getting started / updated TEK thread.
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Bobgas
Master of Mistakes
Registered: 09/01/22
Posts: 584
Last seen: 6 days, 23 hours
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: TieDyeCamo] 2
#28149149 - 01/20/23 03:03 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TieDyeCamo said:
Hmmm, I did a lot of research before starting and I came across a lot of folks who use spore syringes directly into grain bags. Your criticism is noted and I appreciate it.
This is the way it was done for years. You will find a ton of threads with basic searches even here where that was how people did things. This method can still work / produce mushrooms, but as all have said / advised and explained, spore syringes are dirty and on top of that, you don't know how the purchased grain bags were prepped. It's a recipe for a very high failure rate.
Looks like I just needed to bump the temp up to ~85 deg F to break the dormancy. Bags are now colonizing.
85 degrees is too high. Try to keep the environment (that's important) you are growing in between 68-75. It is most likely the case the myc was growing anyway, just undetectable until now. Germination and colonization can take weeks ime.
I'm taking the advice and going to do PF Tek next. After looking more into agar like you suggest, I do like the amount of control.
PF Tek is a great way to go, and it's pretty inexpensive. The biggest expenses are a canner / pressure cooker and dehydrator. Regrading sterility, although pf tek is highly resistant to bacteria growth, it is still important to be as sterile in your work as is possible. You can make a still air box cheaply out of a 100qt tote. Plenty of threads on how to make one.
Still learning and am confused by your comment about shooting spores into Verm cakes "because the verm contains the contaminants..." Can you clarify this?
follow the steps in PF tek to the letter. Success begets success. During the colonization / fruiting process, you can take your time to learn agar as well.
As your current bag continues to colonize, post pictures so that people can help you / advise you on the best path forward.
Thanks again!
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🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄲🄻🄸🄽 🄶🅆🅁🄰🄿
Edited by Bobgas (01/20/23 03:06 PM)
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Excess Taters
Highentist
Registered: 08/29/22
Posts: 874
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: Bobgas] 1
#28149161 - 01/20/23 03:07 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Additional info based on what Bobgas just said.
85% is better for bacteria than mycelium. Mycelium generally enjoys 70-75 degrees. With 75-80 being acceptable but high and not the greatest, and 65-70 being fine but slightly slower. I'd imagine the best temp to set them to is 75.
Also you can use any pot and steam sterilize your PF tek cakes. I've done that a few times and it works out fine. So if you have a big pot or a friend with a large pot, you likely won't need a PC for PF tek cakes.
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If you've never grown mushrooms before, here's how you start. First, follow the Updated PF Tek, put 4 holes in jar lids not 1, and use a water tub!
The next move is Shoebox Tek. After that you move onto grains, agar, monotubs. Agar is easy, just do it.
Other useful links - Picture guide for how things should look and proper surface conditions guide
Growing APE or PE? P9 pseudo casing tek
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KROM
Local Oaf
Registered: 07/20/19
Posts: 1,005
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Thanks all for filling in the knowledge gap. Hitting the literature hard but these comments/forums make clarification so much easier.
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
Edited by TieDyeCamo (01/21/23 07:52 PM)
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: TieDyeCamo]
#28152246 - 01/22/23 01:42 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Photo update.
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: Bobgas]
#28188324 - 02/15/23 09:03 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Thinking I may have gotten lucky....
 
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
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B Traven
Stranger
Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,695
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 28 minutes, 37 seconds
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: TieDyeCamo]
#28188367 - 02/15/23 09:35 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Those are bacterial, as expected.
You may still get lucky and pull a flush or two off of them before they are over-run by contamination. Or not. It's a crapshoot from here.
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Beware of advice- even this.
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: B Traven]
#28188660 - 02/15/23 01:03 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks Traven. What do you see that makes you say bacterial? I'm still drinking from the proverbial firehose. 
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
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B Traven
Stranger
Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,695
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 28 minutes, 37 seconds
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: TieDyeCamo]
#28188704 - 02/15/23 01:25 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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To some extent, it's a gestalt thing based on personal experience. If you grow out enough bacterial spawn, you develop a sort of PTSD about it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing lol
But some of the indicators I see are:
-spiky myc coming off some of the grains
-grains on the outside, touching the bag, that aren't fully colonized
-a noticeable difference between the myc at the bottom of the bag and the myc growing on the surface, with more tomentose aerial myc growing on the surface
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Beware of advice- even this.
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Re: Inoculation Timeframe Question [Re: B Traven] 1
#28189239 - 02/15/23 06:39 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Got ya...thanks for taking the time to explain this.
Grains are going in monotub tonight so, even if I get a bucket full of molds and bacteria, I'll post a pic in the near future with the results. 
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Photo Update - 3 Days in Monotube [Re: TieDyeCamo] 1
#28195343 - 02/19/23 09:48 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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"As artists and professionals it is our obligation to enact our own internal revolution, a private insurrection inside our own skulls. In this uprising we free ourselves from the tyranny of consumer culture. We overthrow the programming of advertising, movies, video games, magazines, TV, and MTV by which we have been hypnotized from the cradle. We unplug ourselves from the grid by recognizing that we will never cure our restlessness by contributing our disposable income to the bottom line of Bullshit, Inc., but only by doing our work."
~Steven Pressfield
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TieDyeCamo
Source Code Humanoid
Registered: 01/16/23
Posts: 22
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
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Again, first time cultivating. Any advice is appreciated.
*Also have PF cakes colonizing. Thanks to those who encouraged this method as a launch point*
  
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B Traven
Stranger
Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,695
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 28 minutes, 37 seconds
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Given that you already know the spawn is bacterial, that looks about as good as could be expected. Not much to do now but cross your fingers and let it ride!
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Beware of advice- even this.
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