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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Registered: 03/17/22
Posts: 363
No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? * 1
    #28143238 - 01/16/23 04:34 PM (1 year, 11 days ago)

If Biden somehow gets away with this wihtout getting impeached then is there any real rule of law for the rich and powerful anymore in the US?

Food for thought.....

Oh and who pays $49,000 per month for rent? Hunter is either money laundering or holds the record for rent paid living in a parents basement.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: thetruthsohelp] * 1
    #28143264 - 01/16/23 04:50 PM (1 year, 11 days ago)

Considering he did the exact opposite of trump and offered them up without even being asked, I really don't care unless the contents are genuinely dangerous. Even with trump I wouldn't care if he hadn't handled it the most sketchy possible way. Maybe things that are classified shouldn't leave designated safe areas in general?


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OfflineDave Bowman
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28143299 - 01/16/23 05:10 PM (1 year, 11 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
Oh and who pays $49,000 per month for rent? Hunter is either money laundering or holds the record for rent paid living in a parents basement.




Wait, the $49K rent was to live in Joe's house?  Not a separate property?


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers] * 2
    #28143739 - 01/16/23 10:24 PM (1 year, 10 days ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Considering he did the exact opposite of trump and offered them up without even being asked, I really don't care unless the contents are genuinely dangerous. Even with trump I wouldn't care if he hadn't handled it the most sketchy possible way. Maybe things that are classified shouldn't leave designated safe areas in general?




T
Quote:

feevers said:
Considering he did the exact opposite of trump and offered them up without even being asked, I really don't care unless the contents are genuinely dangerous. Even with trump I wouldn't care if he hadn't handled it the most sketchy possible way. Maybe things that are classified shouldn't leave designated safe areas in general?




He was Vice at the time and Vice presidents should not have classified documents, like ever dude. At least trump had them in a secure safe and at least he has the defence that as President he can declassify. Biden has no such defence.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Loc: Utah
Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28143824 - 01/17/23 12:34 AM (1 year, 10 days ago)

Biden and trump should be treated the same when it comes to the classified documents, but the republicans were silent about trump while the democrats shouted, and now the democrats are silent while the republicans shout, so they're both equally fucked and playing politics when it comes to this shit. All the increasingly strained rationalizations by both sides to try to explain why it was different with one vs the other is typical politics.


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: nooneman] * 2
    #28143953 - 01/17/23 04:51 AM (1 year, 10 days ago)

A vice president does not have the summary ppowers of declasification, only a president does. How can you say that these two different cases should be treated the same?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28143974 - 01/17/23 05:37 AM (1 year, 10 days ago)

He is saying the net result is the same. The legal circumstances are different though, depending on who you listen to.

What most are not talking about is a solution, like establishing a better tracking system for the National Archives. Right now they don't seem to know what's missing unless someone else finds it.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28143996 - 01/17/23 06:05 AM (1 year, 10 days ago)

Yeah I agree.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28144054 - 01/17/23 07:21 AM (1 year, 10 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
A vice president does not have the summary ppowers of declasification, only a president does. How can you say that these two different cases should be treated the same?



https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-documents/

"Under an Obama-era executive order that retained a Bush-era order, vice presidents have the authority to classify and declassify documents — just like presidents. There is some ambiguity about whether they have the power to order departments and agencies to declassify material deemed secret by those agencies, but the scope of this power has never been tested. "


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers]
    #28144062 - 01/17/23 07:34 AM (1 year, 10 days ago)

Maybe it did it like Trump and declassified everything in his mind.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers]
    #28145904 - 01/18/23 01:05 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
If Biden somehow gets away with this wihtout getting impeached then is there any real rule of law for the rich and powerful anymore in the US?





This was pre-presidency, how is that impeachable? Plus, he didn't obstruct justice when it was discovered unlike his predecessor...

Quote:

feevers said:
Considering he did the exact opposite of trump and offered them up without even being asked, I really don't care unless the contents are genuinely dangerous. Even with trump I wouldn't care if he hadn't handled it the most sketchy possible way. Maybe things that are classified shouldn't leave designated safe areas in general?




Bingo.

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
He was Vice at the time and Vice presidents should not have classified documents, like ever dude. At least trump had them in a secure safe and at least he has the defence that as President he can declassify. Biden has no such defence.




Why shouldn't they have classified docs? Besides not being even remotely true, it also doesn't make much sense.

Quote:

nooneman said:
Biden and trump should be treated the same when it comes to the classified documents, but the republicans were silent about trump while the democrats shouted, and now the democrats are silent while the republicans shout, so they're both equally fucked and playing politics when it comes to this shit. All the increasingly strained rationalizations by both sides to try to explain why it was different with one vs the other is typical politics.




For the most part I agree with this. There are, however, some significant differences that are above politics. Mainly the obstruction piece in the Trump case.

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
A vice president does not have the summary ppowers of declasification, only a president does. How can you say that these two different cases should be treated the same?




First, this is besides the point. Having the power to declassify doesn't make what Trump did ok since there is no proof that he ever did! (And yes, you have to provide proof that documents have been declassified)

Plus there's also...

Quote:

feevers said:
Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
A vice president does not have the summary ppowers of declasification, only a president does. How can you say that these two different cases should be treated the same?



https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-documents/

"Under an Obama-era executive order that retained a Bush-era order, vice presidents have the authority to classify and declassify documents — just like presidents. There is some ambiguity about whether they have the power to order departments and agencies to declassify material deemed secret by those agencies, but the scope of this power has never been tested. "




This.

I do think these instances should disqualify both of them from running again for any position that requires handling of classified material. Plus, both of them are way too old to be president.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar]
    #28145909 - 01/18/23 01:13 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

There is evidence Trump tried to get Giuliani to take documents. Giuliani is on the record saying as much.

I'm not saying that this situation with Biden is okay, I don't think it is. However, the situations are very different.


--------------------
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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar] * 3
    #28145935 - 01/18/23 01:29 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

Watching you guys jump through olympics-level hoops to avoid having to admit to the obvious double standard is hilarious.

"You see, anything Trump does is always bad 100% of the time... but when it comes to us, we're different! The FBI and DOJ totally aren't biased, you fucking domestic terrorists!" :lol:

You guys would get a lot more respect if you were just honest with yourselves and with the rest of us and admitted that your hatred of Trump is more important to you than attempting to maintain any kind of semblance of fairness in American politics.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: chopstick]
    #28145948 - 01/18/23 01:35 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Watching you guys jump through olympics-level hoops to avoid having to admit to the obvious double standard is hilarious.

"You see, anything Trump does is always bad 100% of the time... but when it comes to us, we're different! The FBI and DOJ totally aren't biased, you fucking domestic terrorists!" :lol:

You guys would get a lot more respect if you were just honest with yourselves and with the rest of us and admitted that your hatred of Trump is more important to you than attempting to maintain any kind of semblance of fairness in American politics.




C'mon, the same could be said the other way.

Taking home classified information is bad, period. Both are at fault here.

Lying about, obstructing the feds, trying to hide said information, takes it to another level. Only one of them is guilty of this.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar]
    #28145955 - 01/18/23 01:38 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

:whathesaid:
and you grow weed

:congrats:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers] * 1
    #28145981 - 01/18/23 01:59 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Considering he did the exact opposite of trump and offered them up without even being asked, I really don't care unless the contents are genuinely dangerous. Even with trump I wouldn't care if he hadn't handled it the most sketchy possible way. Maybe things that are classified shouldn't leave designated safe areas in general?




Turning myself in for a crime doesn’t absolve me. Yeah, he looks way better than trump by comparison, but that’s always been the democrats’ whole deal.


--------------------


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28146013 - 01/18/23 02:20 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

feevers said:
Considering he did the exact opposite of trump and offered them up without even being asked, I really don't care unless the contents are genuinely dangerous. Even with trump I wouldn't care if he hadn't handled it the most sketchy possible way. Maybe things that are classified shouldn't leave designated safe areas in general?




Turning myself in for a crime doesn’t absolve me. Yeah, he looks way better than trump by comparison, but that’s always been the democrats’ whole deal.




I don't really care what's a crime or what looks better, the way Trump handled it makes me more concerned about the contents of the documents and his intentions. I'd be perfectly happy to see them as cell mates


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers]
    #28146023 - 01/18/23 02:27 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

For real, lock them both up for it. Clearly, Trumps situation is worse though. Especially because they had lawyers saying there were no documents and there were documents. In Biden's case they found them and turned them over. Not a lot of gymnastics to be had there.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: christopera]
    #28146027 - 01/18/23 02:29 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

And from today's news, now Trump is back to the "FBI planted the docs" argument. He's claiming he just kept the empty folders as "cool keepsakes". :rolleyes:


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar]
    #28146031 - 01/18/23 02:30 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

He's been saying extra crazy shit lately.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers]
    #28146121 - 01/18/23 03:24 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

Quote:

feevers said:

I don't really care what's a crime or what looks better, the way Trump handled it makes me more concerned about the contents of the documents and his intentions. I'd be perfectly happy to see them as cell mates




Beat me to it.  Lock them up! (Biden, Trump, & Clinton) :cheers:

All 3 in the same cell might could also make for one hell of a fucked up porno and then some. :geordinod: :lol: :strokebeard2::vomit:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers]
    #28154259 - 01/23/23 05:12 PM (1 year, 4 days ago)

There is nothing there. 

:smug:
Quote:

feevers said:
Considering he did the exact opposite of trump and offered them up without even being asked, I really don't care unless the contents are genuinely dangerous. Even with trump I wouldn't care if he hadn't handled it the most sketchy possible way. Maybe things that are classified shouldn't leave designated safe areas in general?





Except it is illegal for the VP to have these documents.

Unlike Trump.


--------------------


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #28154274 - 01/23/23 05:18 PM (1 year, 4 days ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Except it is illegal for the VP to have these documents.

Unlike Trump.




Not true


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers]
    #28154307 - 01/23/23 05:47 PM (1 year, 4 days ago)

An Obama era executive order allowed for the vp to declassify documents...


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #28155013 - 01/24/23 06:56 AM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Except it is illegal for the VP to have these documents.

Unlike Trump.




Please explain your reasoning, as this isn't true.


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar] * 2
    #28155202 - 01/24/23 09:21 AM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Waiting for these people who make uninformed assumptions tests my patience. So, I'll reply to my own reply.

Basically, what you said about it being illegal for the VP but not for Trump is wrong from both viewpoints.

Viewpoint 1: VP does not have the clearance to have these documents. FALSE.

As noted in the Congressional Research Report (link here) Constitutional Officers do not need a security clearance. So, as VP, Biden had every right to view and have access to those docs.

Viewpoint 2: It's illegal because Biden had them at his home, but not illegal that Trump had them at his home. FALSE.

Again, false because both individuals, once they became private citizens, lost the above linked mandate for their clearances. Both cases are illegal.

Now, I'm sure we'll here the "But, but Trump could declassify them just by thinking about them!" While technically true that the President has that power (the power to declassify via a process, not the power to do so by thought), he's still bound by the process. There is no documentation that he ever declassified the documents that he brought home with him. None. Period. Therefore, it didn't happen.


Edited by Randar (01/24/23 09:23 AM)


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar]
    #28155323 - 01/24/23 10:50 AM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Aw SNAP. Now the right's favorite, god-fearing VP is lumped into the same boat as Biden...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/politics/pence-classified-documents-fbi/index.html


Edited by Randar (01/24/23 10:50 AM)


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28155366 - 01/24/23 11:32 AM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
He was Vice at the time and Vice presidents should not have classified documents, like ever dude. At least trump had them in a secure safe and at least he has the defence that as President he can declassify. Biden has no such defence.




A file box is a secure safe? Since when?

Thoughts on Pence?


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar]
    #28155374 - 01/24/23 11:37 AM (1 year, 3 days ago)

It's legal for republican VPs to have classified documents, not for democrat VPs


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: feevers]
    #28155378 - 01/24/23 11:41 AM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
It's legal for republican VPs to have classified documents, not for democrat VPs




My bad. I missed that in the report.


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar] * 2
    #28155535 - 01/24/23 01:19 PM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Why the fuck are these guys taking classified documents home?? Like i'm legitimately curious.. apparently there are just mounds of classified docs floating around everywhere to the point they can't keep track of them???


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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Lynnch] * 1
    #28155559 - 01/24/23 01:32 PM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Agree 100%.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Lynnch] * 3
    #28155560 - 01/24/23 01:32 PM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Because they’re all corrupt.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28155699 - 01/24/23 02:51 PM (1 year, 3 days ago)

I worked in human resources at a large-ish university (nearly 30k students) and had to take classes on how to handle sensitive documents to even get the job. After a few years of working there I gained access to all the most sensitive items. You had to go through three doors all with different locks to get to that info. Then when you got into that room the file cabinet was this huge rolling cabinet like 40 feet wide and 50 rows deep, but it was all locked together. You had to have a key to unlock them and open the row you had access to. Then you'd use the crank on that row to roll it, get access, but had to lock it again before you left.

Meanwhile these fuckers are just riding dirty and don't care.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

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OfflineRandar
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: christopera]
    #28155715 - 01/24/23 03:00 PM (1 year, 3 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
I worked in human resources at a large-ish university (nearly 30k students) and had to take classes on how to handle sensitive documents to even get the job. After a few years of working there I gained access to all the most sensitive items. You had to go through three doors all with different locks to get to that info. Then when you got into that room the file cabinet was this huge rolling cabinet like 40 feet wide and 50 rows deep, but it was all locked together. You had to have a key to unlock them and open the row you had access to. Then you'd use the crank on that row to roll it, get access, but had to lock it again before you left.

Meanwhile these fuckers are just riding dirty and don't care.




Yeah. I've worked in the government and had access to classified material. The restrictions were onerous to say the least. Plus all the training, background checks, etc.

I guess it's to be expected when you just hand an elected official the ability to access classified docs. Hell, now George Santos has that ability! That's a scary thought.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Randar]
    #28156489 - 01/25/23 04:08 AM (1 year, 2 days ago)

This stuff happens all the time they just never made it public before because people would start to wonder why we throw the little guys in jail or at least fire them for it and not the elected officials. Then Trump had to cross the line by not only stealing a bunch of documents and refusing to return them he also apparently attempted to declassifiy them telepathically so everyone,  including the enemies of the United States, would have access this sensitive information. He's the one who went to the media with it when the FBI raided his house. As far as I know the government was silent about it the entire time he had those documents, I certainly hadn't heard about it.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: No ones gonna talk about the classified documents? [Re: Kizzle]
    #28156542 - 01/25/23 05:56 AM (1 year, 2 days ago)

Rules for thee, not for me.

We would get clapped if anyone of us had classified docs. The reporting and tracking system needs to change.....and even (gasp)accountability.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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