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SirTripAlot
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28159717 - 01/27/23 11:25 AM (1 year, 9 hours ago) |
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You want employers to pay SSI and Medicare for their employees? What about if one doesn't have a jobby job? ......the company goes belly up and doesn't cough up the money? The employee would be screwed. I haven't given that much thought, but it sounds ripe for fuzzy accounting and shit wages.
I do hope the government taxes the piss out of AI/ robots for their labor.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Kryptos
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Well, it's related to my concrete boxes/make life an MMO idea. If you don't have a jobby job, you get to have some bare minimum accomodations, entertainment, and food. Enough to physically live.
Anything you want above bare minimum survival, you work for. The idea of shifting the tax burden entirely onto the owning class counters the reality that the owning class would be getting fat subsidies to make the first point, bare minimum survival for all.
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mycot
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: I do hope the government taxes the piss out of AI/ robots for their labor.
That's twice I've now come across this idea now and it's not going to happen and doesn't make sense since it's just a piece of owned technology.
We don't charge computers tax for the work they perform nor do we tax the work that machinery does. All these things including AI are just tools. The economics of tech though are another matter especially in capitalistic societies.
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Enlil
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: mycot] 1
#28161460 - 01/28/23 02:32 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Labor isn't taxed anyway. Income is.
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Kryptos
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
#28161485 - 01/28/23 02:54 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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That would be an interesting play, too. Tax labor, and not income.
This would, essentially, be a tax on owning things too.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28161514 - 01/28/23 03:11 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Not sure how it would work unless there was a running figure/tally of how much "income" said robot "made" to take a slice from that has an indirect link to labor, or changing the tax code. A decade from now AI should be very close to taking away some jobs.....how much and what is anyone's guess. Or tax the dogshit upfront at purchase point. Talking like semi sentient Boston Dynamics bots of 2035 or something.
There is some AI in a court for a speeding ticket type stuff I read about with the Defendant wearing an earpiece to regurgitate whatever the program tells him/her to. Even at that point I would think how one speaks in the court would make just as much difference as what you said. Sounding monotone or like your reading from a book wouldn't sound to convincing.
That said, with written legal stuff seems copy and paste or form drafts like fill in the blank for menial legal things....I have seen them.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/28/23 06:17 PM)
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thetruthsohelp
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
#28161654 - 01/28/23 05:01 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Labor isn't taxed anyway. Income is.
Since the produce of labor is counted in money, whats the difference?
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budmanman
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You could have had this but you didn't.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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budmanman
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
#28161862 - 01/28/23 07:14 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Labor isn't taxed anyway. Income is.
Income isn't taxed if you know what you are doing.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Enlil
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Quote:
thetruthsohelp said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Labor isn't taxed anyway. Income is.
Since the produce of labor is counted in money, whats the difference?
I reject your premise. Do you actually believe that money earned is an accurate gauge of the quantity of labor? If so, I want to live in your world, bro
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Enlil
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: budmanman]
#28162521 - 01/29/23 08:45 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
budmanman said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Labor isn't taxed anyway. Income is.
Income isn't taxed if you know what you are doing.
There will always be immoral people out there. I'm not talking about that.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
#28162528 - 01/29/23 08:50 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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Would piece rate pay be an instance or that just production of labor, and not necessarily quantity?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Enlil
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In our economy, compensation is based on output more than input. There is no question that those who work harder often make less than others. This is because our markets are driven by perception. People who can manipulate perception will invariably create more value for a company than people who can simply do better (or more) work. An executive who can convince the public to buy an inferior widget brings more profit to a company than a craftsman who makes the best widget. Beyond that, an executive who gives the owners (shareholders) the perception that the company is successful brings even more value to the company than one who increases sales.
Building a better mousetrap isn't enough (or even necessary) anymore.
That's the reality. Because of this, the executive will earn more despite him doing less actual labor. To whatever extent there exists an objective "fairness," it is certainly fair to pay people based on their intellectual manipulation skills insofar as those skills result in increased profits. As people, however, who see systemic imbalance between the hard-working poor and the rich living in leisure, it certainly is a hard pill to swallow.
Taxing labor, which is the hypothetical considered here, would only serve to tax the poor more than the rich, which is the opposite of what we need in order to thrive.
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budmanman
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
#28162559 - 01/29/23 09:24 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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All I am hearing you say is we needed to shoot the tax code.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Kryptos
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
#28162578 - 01/29/23 09:30 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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If you tax the labor result instead of the income, then the people who own the labor will be paying the tax.
In other words, not the workers.
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Enlil
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: budmanman]
#28162581 - 01/29/23 09:31 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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When the space shuttle was first built, it was controlled by computers running COBOL. COBOL is an antiquated programming language that hasn't been used in decades. After the shuttle had been flying for about 20 years, NASA wanted to upgrade their computers, but they couldn't find anything that would run COBOL. Of course, some said that they should just recode the systems in a modern language, but the risk was that an error would cause some catastrophe, and the systems had been working correctly for so long.
This is the same problem we have with the tax code.
The tax code is a big fucking mess. Everyone in Washington wants a new, better tax code. This has been universal for at least 30 years. The problem is that it's so big and complicated that there is a very real chance of fucking the economy up if the transition isn't done right. It's one thing to throw out "simple" solutions, but the reality is that the tax code is like a jacket with so many patches that there is no jacket showing anymore. Creating a new tax code is easy, but creating one that will approximate the current results for 300+ million Americans such that we don't send a group into instant poverty is a whole other thing.
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Enlil
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28162586 - 01/29/23 09:32 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: If you tax the labor result instead of the income, then the people who own the labor will be paying the tax.
In other words, not the workers.
The workers own the labor, dude. Slavery has been illegal for a long, long time. Workers sell their labor to employers.
"labor result" is just another way of saying output or value. That's reflected in income in our economy, which is what is taxed now.
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Kryptos
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
#28162589 - 01/29/23 09:34 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: If you tax the labor result instead of the income, then the people who own the labor will be paying the tax.
In other words, not the workers.
The workers own the labor, dude. Slavery has been illegal for a long, long time. Workers sell their labor to employers.
They don't own the *result* of their labor.
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Enlil
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28162590 - 01/29/23 09:35 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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How is the result any different from value as I discussed above?
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budmanman
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil]
#28162594 - 01/29/23 09:39 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: When the space shuttle was first built, it was controlled by computers running COBOL. COBOL is an antiquated programming language that hasn't been used in decades. After the shuttle had been flying for about 20 years, NASA wanted to upgrade their computers, but they couldn't find anything that would run COBOL. Of course, some said that they should just recode the systems in a modern language, but the risk was that an error would cause some catastrophe, and the systems had been working correctly for so long.
This is the same problem we have with the tax code.
The tax code is a big fucking mess. Everyone in Washington wants a new, better tax code. This has been universal for at least 30 years. The problem is that it's so big and complicated that there is a very real chance of fucking the economy up if the transition isn't done right. It's one thing to throw out "simple" solutions, but the reality is that the tax code is like a jacket with so many patches that there is no jacket showing anymore. Creating a new tax code is easy, but creating one that will approximate the current results for 300+ million Americans such that we don't send a group into instant poverty is a whole other thing.
Sending a group into instant poverty is a risk I am willing to take.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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