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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
thetruthsohelp said: Well at least it would be fair. As for lowering taxes, how about abolishing all other taxes except income tax that would be a flat tax.
Your sense of fairness and mine are completely different. IMO, there's nothing fair about making the poorest among us even poorer.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
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Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 3 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28144993 - 01/17/23 07:07 PM (1 year, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
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SirTripAlot said:
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thetruthsohelp said: Its fair because everyone pays the same percentage.
Abolishing taxes means more money in the pockets of the average joe and less in the pockets of corrupt politicans to spend and what 'they' think is best for you.
How do higher taxes mean more 'equity'? 
Like I stated earlier almost 40% of Americans don't pay income tax. A flat tax would impact those folks big time, and put less money in their pocket.
I do think everyone should pay income tax, but at a very low level or a standard amount below a certain income level. It really isn't "fair" for the other 60% of Americans foot the entire bill. I also think it would make people feel like they got some skin in the game.
I wouldn't necessarily describe people who are literally too poor to pay taxes having to pay taxes as "fair". Seems it would be much more fair to create a society where wealth is distributed equally enough that there isn't an established underclass of working poor that earn so little money they can't even afford to pay taxes (among other things), while 59% of Americans pick up the tab for the rest (HAHAHA, you think the 1% pays taxes? lol)
.... under the poverty line ($12,000), or around that, no. But people making 25- 30k or so could cough up a nominal amount. To drive on roads, schools etc....thats not to much to ask. That amount wouldn't break them, and yes they live in a society and use public services. It might even spur them to think where that money's going. Let's face it, when the Fed is not taking any income tax, what do they care what it's spent on?
It's a pipedream though, because it would give a raging class warfare booner to the powers that be. I also think the term loophole is completely a detriment to those who perceive tax law. As long as its on the books, its a law. The term makes one envisage someone violating the law through some shady activity....well, change the law then (yeah,I know goos luck);otherwise, the loop will be taken in full legal advantage.
Is there anyone here that doesn't take legal tax deductions?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/17/23 07:09 PM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Quote:
thetruthsohelp said: Well at least it would be fair. As for lowering taxes, how about abolishing all other taxes except income tax that would be a flat tax.
I make $100,000,000 and pay $30,000,000 in taxes leaving me $70,000,000 to fuck around with for the year. You make 10,000 and pay 3,000 leaving you 7,000 to live on for the year.
Sounds fair?
--------------------
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: ballsalsa]
#28145072 - 01/17/23 08:21 PM (1 year, 10 days ago) |
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Those wages are pathetic. $70M a year...
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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Last seen: 9 hours, 38 minutes
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
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SirTripAlot said:
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thetruthsohelp said: Its fair because everyone pays the same percentage.
Abolishing taxes means more money in the pockets of the average joe and less in the pockets of corrupt politicans to spend and what 'they' think is best for you.
How do higher taxes mean more 'equity'? 
Like I stated earlier almost 40% of Americans don't pay income tax. A flat tax would impact those folks big time, and put less money in their pocket.
I do think everyone should pay income tax, but at a very low level or a standard amount below a certain income level. It really isn't "fair" for the other 60% of Americans foot the entire bill. I also think it would make people feel like they got some skin in the game.
I wouldn't necessarily describe people who are literally too poor to pay taxes having to pay taxes as "fair". Seems it would be much more fair to create a society where wealth is distributed equally enough that there isn't an established underclass of working poor that earn so little money they can't even afford to pay taxes (among other things), while 59% of Americans pick up the tab for the rest (HAHAHA, you think the 1% pays taxes? lol)
.... under the poverty line ($12,000), or around that, no. But people making 25- 30k or so could cough up a nominal amount. To drive on roads, schools etc....thats not to much to ask. That amount wouldn't break them, and yes they live in a society and use public services. It might even spur them to think where that money's going. Let's face it, when the Fed is not taking any income tax, what do they care what it's spent on?
It's a pipedream though, because it would give a raging class warfare booner to the powers that be. I also think the term loophole is completely a detriment to those who perceive tax law. As long as its on the books, its a law. The term makes one envisage someone violating the law through some shady activity....well, change the law then (yeah,I know goos luck);otherwise, the loop will be taken in full legal advantage.
Is there anyone here that doesn't take legal tax deductions?
The US poverty line is also stupidly low. Wiki links a study that showed in 2017 that 61% of people making between 1-2x the poverty line still couldn't afford basics. Turns out that sort of thing happens when your definition of "basics" was set in 1955 and never updated.
I guess that's kind of part of the point? I think the true poverty rate is probably best described by those too poor to pay taxes, and yes, that includes people making 25-30k a year. That is a very small amount of money. The only time I lived like that I was a college student, and had zero health issues and all the time in the world. I couldn't even imagine trying to live like that now, and I'm still healthy and under 40.
And yes, considering the median pay in the US is around 30k, that means half the country is in poverty.
I also have, on occasion, not taken legal tax deductions. Primarily because I was young and stupid and the tax code is specifically written in a way to make taking deductions not obvious.
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christopera
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28145597 - 01/18/23 08:13 AM (1 year, 9 days ago) |
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There's absolutely no education in this country regarding tax law. How is that even possible? It's designed to scam the poor. Meanwhile dipshits think a flat tax rate is a good thing.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 7 hours
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Quote:
christopera said: That's not how finances work. Have you ever paid taxes, because you sound like you haven't.
High taxes mean more equity because wealthier people don't need the extra money. Especially the super rich, they are so rich that they don't need the services the normal people need.
Have you ever ridden a bus? How about driven on a road? Maybe went to public school? They don't just appear out of thin air.
BULLPUSSY!
The states control the public school system. Here is a great idea: let's stop excessive spending. The states also control the transport system.
The federal income tax is so complicated because Congress sets up tax with special rules, so they can buy votes.
Because taxes pay all the beaucrats.
Note that government employees get a lot better benefits and salary than the average Joe.
I don't know if Congress has Congress tax benefits. 😋
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christopera
Stranger


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Ummm, okay.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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Federal Income Tax is complicated because HR Block wants to make money.
And yes, lets stop excessive spending. I propose we start with farming, fossil fuel, and military funding.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28146739 - 01/18/23 10:07 PM (1 year, 8 days ago) |
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Unfortunately, for every billion you cut in spending, that's a billion dollars less going to people's wages
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Enlil] 1
#28149773 - 01/20/23 11:53 PM (1 year, 6 days ago) |
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Put that spending into free college so they can learn how to plumb hydroponics or wire solar panels or some similar futuristic equivalent of farming, coal mining, ...and we can just do with less blowing people up in general. Actually, I've always thought that the military, and definitely the national guards and coast guards and shit, should be used to do infrastructure projects. Like the Army Corps, but on a much larger scale. Then maybe we can retrain the tank welders in Ohio to weld like, structural tanks. That way, they can defend freedom AND build houses and powerplants and shit.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,560
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28149807 - 01/21/23 12:17 AM (1 year, 6 days ago) |
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That might sound good on paper, and I've heard people with similar sentiments, but makes pretty much 0 sense in the real world and would probably have the opposite effect of whatever you're trying to achieve long term.
For one, people in the national guard are generally part time soldiers who answer to their state Governors and are funded by their states and Federal government equally. They are hardly trained in doing infrastructure projects as a whole (outside of limited construction stuff), and really what purpose would that serve? You're activating whole units who are not professionals at infrastructure specialties, and you're pulling them away from their own jobs and whatnot, feeding them, paying them, etc. Makes 0 sense. Perhaps you meant the regular Army, but that doesn't make much sense either.
The Coast Guard is an active component of Homeland Security and has a job to do that isn't working on infrastructure projects outside of their own scope.
The Army Corp of Engineers is actually a civilian branch of the Army, and actually consists of professionals in engineering, specialists and people who spend their whole time working and planning on infrastructure projects. If they need personnel from the military components of the Army, they can get it.
Most infrastructure projects are in better hands in civilian contracts who specialize in whatever project they're doing anyway, you'd spend more money and get worse results assigning random military units to this kind of stuff. That kind of mentality doesn't make much sense with a volunteer military generally, it's something governments generally do with conscript armies.
Edited by PatrickKn (01/21/23 12:25 AM)
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Kryptos
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I disagree for two reasons:
1) The point isn't to turn the army into a labor force, the purpose is to see the army as more than an army, which is likely the future of the army anyway. Technology acts as enough of a force multiplier that smaller and smaller groups of soldiers can control larger swaths of land, and the other soldiers can be used elsewhere.
2) Much more importantly, the government has no profit motive, and can therefore do infrastructure projects that are not economically viable, or take place in remote locations.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos] 1
#28150852 - 01/21/23 04:52 PM (1 year, 6 days ago) |
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I have seen private organizations take over military functions....a small example is in the chow hall. Used to be PFCs and Ln corporals. The food by the private company was absolute more shitty.
What people forget to put into the equation: it is a job for civilian workers, its a duty for military personnel. All for using our military for a force for good. There have been many questionable examples of the opposite. Think shovel ready stuff and infastructure would be a step in the right direction, especially troops in garrison.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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Last seen: 9 hours, 38 minutes
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Yeah, but as an American, you should be proud that some CEO took half your food budget for his yacht fund, and fed you scraps.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 7 hours
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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kryptos]
#28153377 - 01/23/23 08:16 AM (1 year, 4 days ago) |
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And the rest of the ' money's went to raises for Congress.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 7 hours
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Hey Ballsy. Do you think those new 85,000 IRS agents are to go after the rich?
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Clutch2481
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Registered: 08/07/22
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: The best way is to figure ones tax monthly (income); and change deductions accordingly / file exempt for the appropriate month(s)or so.....the goal being to get as close to zero for a tax refund as possible, otherwise you have just given the government an interest free loan.
Once you reach a certain tax bracket it doesn’t matter if you claim 0. You end up paying quarterly estimates so you don’t have to pay out your teeth at the end of the year. Makes me sick to have to do that while there are people who refuse to get a decent job and get rewarded for it. Stupid systems that reward laziness.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Quote:
thetruthsohelp said: Well at least it would be fair. As for lowering taxes, how about abolishing all other taxes except income tax that would be a flat tax.
It wouldn't be fair at all. What would actually be fair would be instead of having an income tax, taxing every person the same fixed amount regardless of income which would be something like $15,000 per year. That of course would never work because some people don't even earn $15,000 per year. Life is not fair and so netiher are taxes.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Let's lower taxes. [Re: Kizzle]
#28159476 - 01/27/23 08:11 AM (1 year, 13 hours ago) |
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I'm still somewhat in favor of getting rid of income tax and replacing it with investment and employment tax.
You wanna hire someone? You're gonna pay taxes on their work. You wanna invest? You're gonna pay taxes on that.
Workers shouldn't pay taxes if they don't get the benefits of equity.
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