Home | Community | Message Board

Mycohaus
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Boomr Bag   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
InvisibleSeeker604
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Jack Frost Cultivation Instructions / Tips & Tricks [Re: Atb06] * 1
    #28152893 - 01/22/23 09:25 PM (1 year, 5 days ago)

If this is your first time growing at all, I would tell you to avoid doing agar work. Wait until you have 2-3 grows from syringe under your belt - it will save you time and money (also, unless you're growing commercially, you don't need to have tons of plates going all the time).

Preliminary questions:
1. How many bags of sterilized grain do you have?
2. Where do you plan on doing the spawn run in your home?
3. Have you read any teks on Shroomery yet to familiarize yourself with the lifecycle of a mushroom?
4. How many finished grams are you hoping to achieve (dry or wet)?

Preliminary considerations:
1. Trust experienced growers here - the admins/mods in the Cultivation sub forum are very knowledgeable and will help you stay away from bad or dubious information.

2. KEEP IT SIMPLE. Newbies go through a period of granular learning and excitement and tend to overdo it from the jump, and in the end spend way too much money on resources, versus just getting their hands dirty and getting a few grows under their belt.

3. I strongly suggest you follow Bodhisattva's (Bod's) example and teks. To grow cubes, you truly just need your inoculated spawn (the grains) and your substrate (you only need coco coir for cubes - some varieties do better with CVG, but worry about that later). Since Jack Frost is a hybrid of True Albino Teacher and Albino Penis Envy and grows more like a GT phenotype, you will be fine with just using coco coir.

4. I strongly suggest you do a monotub or shoebox grow for your first experience - they're low maintenance, easier to observe the growth cycle, and also easier to harvest from and cleanup afterwards.

5. If you want to draw out the syringe (your spores in the solution will remain viable up to six months as long as you keep them in the fridge), you can divide half of the syringe across however many bags of grain spawn you'll be making.

6. Keep your initial spawn to substrate ratio at 1:1, and then use just pure coco coir to put a thin casing layer of ⅛ to ¼ inch on top of the substrate once you're ready to go.

Finally, I also will be doing a Jack Frost run; I'm waiting on my grains and spores to arrive (both later this month). I'll be more than happy to share with you privately how my grow is going versus yours. You don't have to pay me for my time.

For now, I'm sure you're excited (we all started from the same place you are starting) - I was when I first learned how to grow and preserve these sacred teachers - but don't drown yourself in too much knowledge at this stage. I'd suggest using traditional shoebox totes or up to 32qt monotubs for your first few goes (it'll help you to learn about contams if you encounter them, and if you do a few shoeboxes versus one large tub, you'll be able to salvage the healthy tubs and only have to toss a contaminated one - again, if that happens at all).

Here is Bod's unmodified monotub tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22337800

If you'd feel more comfortable using shoeboxes, here's Bod's tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25274461

Here's is Bod's substrate tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24077162

Welcome to the culture club - there is nothing more rewarding than taking your first trip from your own cubes that you nurtured and cared for. :smile:

Peace & Light,

Seeker604


Edited by Seeker604 (01/22/23 09:45 PM)


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleSeeker604
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Jack Frost Cultivation Instructions / Tips & Tricks [Re: Greg] * 1
    #28152930 - 01/22/23 09:51 PM (1 year, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Greg said:
I appreciate that you're trying to help but you've got some bad advice mixed into good advice here Seeker.
I don't have the energy right now to split hairs and dive into exactly why what you've posted is wrong.
The gist of it is you should never recommend spores to grain, it's a crapshoot at best.
At worst it results in failed grows and damage-control threads here in mushcult.




Well since you're not in the mood to provide scientific evidence to support your opinion, I can tell you after 30 years, I've never had an issue with using grains from either a syringe or from agar; I've never had a bag or jar get contaminated using either technique.

I trust Bod's experience and my own. My signature pics speak to my experience using the same teks I suggested above.

Peace & Light,

Seeker604


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleSeeker604
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Jack Frost Cultivation Instructions / Tips & Tricks [Re: Greg] * 1
    #28152943 - 01/22/23 10:02 PM (1 year, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Greg said:
Like fucking hell it's literally in the top row of his "where to start" flowchart:






You're only providing more arguments about why you're right and I'm wrong. You haven't shared any science behind the opinion. If you'd take the time to educate, I'll take the time to listen. With the volume of growers here who, like me, have no issues using grain at all, I'm willing to bet your opinion is a minority/outlier. I'm willing to concede this opinion if you provide actual evidence.

Again, I've never had any problem with grains - for MS or clones off agar.

Peace & Light,

Seeker604


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleSeeker604
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Jack Frost Cultivation Instructions / Tips & Tricks [Re: Greg] * 1
    #28152995 - 01/22/23 10:33 PM (1 year, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Greg said:
You made the assertion that agar is unnecessary, the burden of proof is on you.




And in my opinion for someone doing their very first grow, I still stand by this opinion.

Quote:

No, pictures of a single good grow are not proof.


Fair point. But considering I know my growth success rate over these last few decades, I stand behind my opinion.

Quote:

I cited him saying the opposite in a post literally pinned to the top of this board.




He doesn't recommend, doesn't say it won't work.

It's really simple:
Quote:

Spores aren't harvested in a sterile environment, lots of undesirable microorganisms can get mixed in with them.



I agree with this if the person making the syringe isn't working in a proper lab - that's why working with professional vendors over hippies in their basements does matter.

Quote:

Therefore, shooting spores into sterile grain can potentially introduce both cubensis and competitors simultaneously, resulting in shitty grows.




Correct...it CAN. There are other possibilities that could prevent spores from mating and growing mycelium too, but those are just possibilities, not certainties. (You can't tell me after 30 years I've just been lucky with every jar/bag I've ever used?)

And I will admit up front I told the kid to consider agar after a few grows - I agree it's the only way that you know 100% if your culture is clean before going to spawn. I use grain for spawn all the time for my gourmet spawns, and I've never had any issue of contams overtaking cubensis spores in either premade bags from vendors or jars I PCed at home. The only time I ever had contams show up was using PF Tek when I first started, and that's because I started growing before Shroomery even existed. It's because of this board that I was able to learn how to improve my techniques and methods. I never used a SAB or flowhood when I first started in 99 - and even then I would only lose about 1-2 jars out of 20 to contaminates. Since using either an SAB (and now my hood) I've never had any issues with grains.

Peace & Light,

Seeker604


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleSeeker604
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Jack Frost Cultivation Instructions / Tips & Tricks [Re: cooleko]
    #28153001 - 01/22/23 10:41 PM (1 year, 5 days ago)

Quote:

cooleko said:
Seeker, work with me. Where are mushrooms grown? What do we call the medium around them? What else permeates that medium? What happens when spores are dropped to foil? Does any of that permeating stuff get stuck to spores on the foil?

Aka, mushrooms grow in open air saturated with contamination. Inherently ensuring that spores arent 100% clean and prone to being mixed with contamination. Going spores to grain carries that higher risk of contamination. Sure mushrooms will grow but you have a high chance at contamination which will reduce performance or kill the grow all together.

Show us the science that says spores to grain is fail proof and a guaranteed success or stop demanding 'science' from us for our viewpoints because that is laughably hypocritical. Read the front page of posts and you will see failure after failure from spores to grains.




I understand the points you are making. If you're using a well established variety with excellent contam resistance, in my experience you don't get any problems with the grain method. I'm not negating the fact that other organisms can get into a syringe - but I've never had a syringe from either a trusted vendor or a syringe I made myself, ever cause problems on grain.

To argue to stop demanding clinical evidence of a process is being hypocritical. I'm not a professional mycologist but would gladly ask one to offer both sides of this debate in clinical terms. I know how to keep things sterile and sanitized. I work with clean methods. I work with Bod's techniques since 2018. I've never lost a single jar or bag of grain. I've always used syringes to start an initial MS grow, and I clone from that population to agar when I want to keep a strain alive. I only grow for my own use; I'm not a dealer and I don't even share my mush with friends. I stand by my opinion based on my experience. PF tek can still get contaminated with BRF...that's the only time in my history of growing that I had issues with molds overtaking mycelium (and once on agar when I used a cheap-ass hood).

Peace & Light,

Seeker604


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleSeeker604
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Jack Frost Cultivation Instructions / Tips & Tricks [Re: cooleko] * 1
    #28153010 - 01/22/23 10:51 PM (1 year, 5 days ago)

Quote:

cooleko said:
I echo your sentiment. Most of the syringes I have bought were 100% clean. In 30 or so syringes, I've only seen contam a few times (3-4).

We just get so many posts on almost a daily basis about contaminated grows that started spores to grain that the hive mind hates it.




I understand. The scope of my advice was to help the person avoid as much of the problems as possible. Once cubensis is finally legal (let's hope it's soon), we won't even have to worry about spore syringes at all - we can just use cultures like we do for gourmets.  :smile:

Again, I'm more than happy to acknowledge my own limitations of knowledge, but I have a very good record of working with cubensis directly to grain from both syringe and agar...but of course if I had to choose, I'd always prefer the agar work when I can afford the time and money.

My apologies if I sounded defensive in any of my responses this evening...been dealing with stuff for work that's been distracting me.  :smile:

Peace & Light,

Seeker604


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleSeeker604
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Jack Frost Cultivation Instructions / Tips & Tricks [Re: Excess Taters]
    #28154774 - 01/23/23 11:17 PM (1 year, 4 days ago)

Quote:

I'm not popping in to argue, just to inform.  We could debate the percentage of success, but everyday we deal with this.




I understand, and don't think of anyone arguing; we're simply debating aspects of the techniques. Two years ago when I re-joined the forum to catch up on modern theory and techniques, it wasn't that big of a contended topic, and again, I'm by no means an expert in mycology. I only have experience in cubensis, king oyster, lion's mane, and pioppino mushrooms as these are the only species I grow for my own use and food.

I'm sorry that my limited experiences on Shroomery caused such a reaction - I was only trying to help the newbie friend understand there are options; especially if the budget is a concern.

I'll refrain from opining in the future in the cultivation forum; I was just happy to see someone else tackling Jack Frost for the first time like I'll be doing.

Peace & Light,

Seeker604


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
InvisibleSeeker604
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Jack Frost Cultivation Instructions / Tips & Tricks [Re: Excess Taters] * 1
    #28154789 - 01/23/23 11:42 PM (1 year, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Excess Taters said:
Either way, at the very least I appreciate your desire and attempt to educate everyone here.  I fully support that, and hope you keep that aspect of yourself and don't just hide it.




Thank you both, I only share when I think it can be useful, but I understand the reaction and why it happened.  :smile:

Thanks for everyone's understanding!

Peace & Light,

Seeker604


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: North Spore Boomr Bag   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day
( 1 2 3 4 ... 7419 7420 )
saralove 4,288,226 148,394 01/28/24 12:37 AM
by Vibetyme
* some stealthy grow questions, any tips? absentminded 978 4 08/05/03 01:45 PM
by shakta
* Re: sterilizing tips/tricks -- please suggest some Anonymous 1,197 1 04/01/00 12:50 AM
by Anonymous
* Lil bit tip and trick from a veteran would b appreciated EastCoastKid 2,552 19 10/12/04 11:40 PM
by EastCoastKid
* Amanita Muscaria Cultivation
( 1 2 3 all )
HoodedForestDwellr 10,579 45 01/07/23 11:56 AM
by PsillyScieBin
* Warnings and tips!
( 1 2 3 4 all )
PooPs 5,953 72 06/17/03 08:33 PM
by MrSleep
* Tips on making Syringes 00Nick00 5,076 19 08/29/02 01:58 AM
by goldtop
* some helpful tips for newbies... and not-so-newbies :) lysergic 2,120 12 08/12/12 01:01 AM
by Wimy

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
5,486 topic views. 15 members, 134 guests and 59 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
Calendar Event: 01/15/23
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 15 queries.