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Offlinerocky_raccoon
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Registered: 12/12/22
Posts: 94
Last seen: 5 days, 5 hours
Heart-health risks of microdosing * 1
    #28140820 - 01/15/23 08:36 AM (1 year, 13 days ago)

Dear fellow shroomers,
I stumbled across this article which I wanted to share. Serotonin receptors are widespread in the human body and are involved in a multitude of different functions, so I think one should be cautious and evaluate the personal risk/benefit-ratio of prolonged and regular exposure.

https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/04/13/safety-first-potential-heart-health-risks-of-microdosing/


--------------------
Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood.
-Marie Curie



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InvisibleGenericHero
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Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
Re: Heart-health risks of microdosing [Re: rocky_raccoon]
    #28141139 - 01/15/23 12:07 PM (1 year, 13 days ago)

Thanks for sharing.


--------------------
halfass mycology


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OfflineDharmaForKarma
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Registered: 04/24/20
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Re: Heart-health risks of microdosing [Re: GenericHero] * 1
    #28141234 - 01/15/23 01:16 PM (1 year, 13 days ago)

In my opinion this is an inflammatory article not based in fact.

The linked study looked at “29 MDMA users who averaged 3.6 tablets per week for 6.1 years” and found 8 of them had signs of heart valve damage.

1. That’s not microdosing.
2. The study only included MDMA users.
3. There are no claims regarding any other psychoactive substance.
4. The study observes correlation. It does not prove or assume causation. 
6. Microdosing was not studied or even mentioned.

The article is quite speculative. They took a study reviewing heart health of long term high dose MDMA users and made a number of inferential leaps. 

- It refers to MDMA as a psychedelic, which it is not.
- Because MDMA binds to a serotonin receptor that is found in the heart, this binding must be the cause of the valve issue.
- Because true psychedelics also bind to a serotonin receptor, therefore users of those substances (at any dose and frequency) are at risk of the same kind of heart issue.
- The article jumps right into microdosing even though all of the subjects in the study used MDMA at high dose, frequently, over a long period.

Again, the referenced study did not look at any of these things and makes no such claims. The conclusions of the article are wildly excessive.

To summarize,

- there was no microdosing in the study
- there were no psychedelics in the study
- causation was not determined
- extending observations of subjects taking frequent high dose MDMA over a long period to microdosing of any and all psychedelics is unjustified
- The article uses unsound reasoning to justify the conclusion described in the headline.

In other words, if there is something to be concerned about (beyond long term frequent high dose MDMA administration) this article never even tries to identify it.


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InvisibleGenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
Re: Heart-health risks of microdosing [Re: DharmaForKarma] * 1
    #28141300 - 01/15/23 01:48 PM (1 year, 13 days ago)

Several medications with relatively strong 5HT2B receptor binding affinity (Ki < 500 nM) have been unquestionably associated with VHD, such as methylergonovine, methysergide, ergotamine, pergolide, cabergoline, fenfluramine (active metabolite norfenfluramine); where roughly 25% of patients developed new onset VHD, including some cases of heart valve thickening that required heart surgery and resulted in death.

a recent FDA regulatory forum toxicology expert review article has suggested that a medication’s 5HT2B binding affinity (Ki) was considered a better predictor of VHD risk than measures of functional activity such as EC50.

LSD and psilocybin (active metabolite psilocin) present concerns for VHD because they too bind to the 5HT2B receptor. Unfortunately, these psychedelics could potentially cause VHD when “microdosed” for many months to years.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

"- The article uses unsound reasoning to justify the conclusion described in the headline."

the headline states that there is a "potential risk"


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halfass mycology


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Offlinerocky_raccoon
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Registered: 12/12/22
Posts: 94
Last seen: 5 days, 5 hours
Re: Heart-health risks of microdosing [Re: GenericHero] * 1
    #28141495 - 01/15/23 04:08 PM (1 year, 12 days ago)

Dharma, I agree that high doses of MDMA and microdoses of psychedelics seem to be two different things. But as GenericHero pointed out, other 5HT2B-agonists showed the same effects in therapeutic doses so there seems to be a common mechanism. Of course this is all preliminary and speculative. Maybe in the future it will all be proven wrong and psychedelics don't have any effect on the heart or at least not in the used dosage. But scientific long term studies are difficult to perform, especially if the drug to be tested has an illegal status in most countries.

I think it is valid to assume, like in any other pharmaceutical, that if there is a desired effect, there is also the possibility for adverse effects. Read the leaflet of any painkiller, antibiotic or antidepressant and you will find a long list of possible undesired side effects reaching from heartburn to coma. Just because there is no leaflet coming with your psychedelics, doesn't mean that they're safe for everybody in every dosage.

I am using mushrooms myself and I will continue to do so but it is good to know what potential risks you are dealing with to have a basis for deciding on how and when and why you want to consume the drug. Based on the preliminary data and growing anecdotal evidence, psychedelics seem to have very low negative impact compared to all other drugs but in the end we need more valid data to be sure.
Now, what you make of all this is completely your choice.


--------------------
Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood.
-Marie Curie



Edited by rocky_raccoon (01/16/23 01:57 AM)


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