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bakedbeings
orbiter of truth


Registered: 09/01/20
Posts: 4,563
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Re: Unused grain jars contam, but agar ok? [Re: FunnyFungiName]
#28187067 - 02/14/23 12:13 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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i use bird seed and i live at 5000 ft. ive soaked and simmered, soaked only, simmered only, and done no-prep. never made a difference with contam. but i vent for 20, PC for 120, and i always inoculate the morning after. seems to be working ok
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Land Trout
Stranger



Registered: 01/08/18
Posts: 3,180
Last seen: 7 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Unused grain jars contam, but agar ok? [Re: FunnyFungiName] 1
#28187070 - 02/14/23 12:17 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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From USDA Most yeasts and molds are heat-sensitive and destroyed by heat treatments at temperatures of 140-160°F (60-71°C). Some molds make heat-resistant spores, however, and can survive heat treatments in pickled vegetable products. These molds, however, require oxygen to grow. When jars or containers of thermally processed acidified vegetables are improperly sealed or cracked, oxygen may get in. Under these conditions, spores that survived heat treatment may germinate and grow on the surface of the liquid inside the container where air is present. These molds can consume the acid present in these products, causing the pH to rise above 4.6, which in turn can lead to the growth of C. botulinum and potentially the production of deadly botulinum toxin. Therefore, it is very important to make sure that containers of acidified foods are properly sealed. There are relatively few spore-forming microorganisms which can grow without oxygen and at pH values below 4.6 (see Chapter 10, Table 10.1). One such organism is a mold named Byssochlamys fulva. This organism has been responsible for the spoilage of thermally processed canned fruits. It is quite heat-resistant, requiring about 1 minute at boiling temperature to kill cells of the organism, and may survive the heat treatment. Fortunately, this mold has not been reported to be a problem in acidified vegetable foods. When spoilage of thermally processed acidified food products does occur, it is usually because some jars or containers were not heated for the required time at the correct temperature. Tried finding something about what temp kills spores of Byssochlamys fulva but for a quick search all the studies mentioned how sme strains can survive pasteurization at 80c Molds and mold spores are killed at very low temps Comped to bacterial endoscopes, so the mold got in there after the pc cycle, as far as the mold goes.
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FunnyFungiName
Ninja Space Pirate


Registered: 01/15/18
Posts: 342
Last seen: 15 minutes, 47 seconds
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Re: Unused grain jars contam, but agar ok? [Re: bakedbeings]
#28187078 - 02/14/23 12:33 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bakedbeings said: i use bird seed and i live at 5000 ft. ive soaked and simmered, soaked only, simmered only, and done no-prep. never made a difference with contam. but i vent for 20, PC for 120, and i always inoculate the morning after. seems to be working ok
Yeah I had good results with the overnight soak, but recently I was doing a 5 minute boil at 200 degrees with no soak. I think I need to to simmer longer or go back to the soak.
Also I have a 50lb bag of oats so Im going to see how that works out.
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HappinessStan
Fungivore



Registered: 10/10/12
Posts: 1,860
Loc: Worcester, UK
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Unused grain jars contam, but agar ok? [Re: BeefSupremeJr] 1
#28187080 - 02/14/23 12:34 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: it isnt the jar. id bet my life savings on that. its the wbs. bodhi always said theres no such thing as sterile grain and as time goes on, i realize the wisdom of that grouchy sonofabitch.
Yeah but that's really only bacterial endospores. If mold is getting in, it's gotta be the filters. Mold dies very quickly in a pc cycle, so it must be coming in post pc cycle.
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FunnyFungiName
Ninja Space Pirate


Registered: 01/15/18
Posts: 342
Last seen: 15 minutes, 47 seconds
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Re: Unused grain jars contam, but agar ok? [Re: HappinessStan]
#28187090 - 02/14/23 12:43 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
HappinessStan said:
Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: it isnt the jar. id bet my life savings on that. its the wbs. bodhi always said theres no such thing as sterile grain and as time goes on, i realize the wisdom of that grouchy sonofabitch.
Yeah but that's really only bacterial endospores. If mold is getting in, it's gotta be the filters. Mold dies very quickly in a pc cycle, so it must be coming in post pc cycle.
Same lids/filters are being used for agar and lc with no issue.
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