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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
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Loc: The Pathless Path
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What came first, the teacher or the student? 1
#28133506 - 01/10/23 11:04 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Without a student do you have a teacher? Without a teacher do you have a student?
I was thinking about this the other day as humans we inherently need/desire a guardian, a teacher, someone to guide us
I do see the duality of the teacher's student relationship As you really can't have one without the other
Are we all the student and the teacher? Is the teacher just as much a student as the student is a teacher?
My own logic and reasoning had led me to conclude by shaving away the duality they remain one in the same
Thoughts?
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 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28133591 - 01/10/23 12:11 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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'Marriage' might replace 'teacher' as in first comes desire then a marriage with collaborators. The bride of Christ then would be his collaborators.
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Lithop
Spaghetti Days



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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28133655 - 01/10/23 12:53 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
connectedcosmos said: Without a student do you have a teacher? Without a teacher do you have a student? . . . I do see the duality of the teacher's student relationship As you really can't have one without the other
It does seem like classic tail chasing. Taking it apart I feel the definition of what a student is, has built into it some sort of desire in reaching the knowledge or state the teacher already knows/embodies.
So (starting this comment...) I think the teacher comes first, because of the more fluid scope of what can be classified as a teacher, but it's sort of inert/dormant in its teaching role without the perspective of a student. A situation, location, animal, person, plant, piece of art can all be classed as teacher depending on perspective (or how high you are...) but, could you class all of those as students?
Let's say some guy is (hypothetically) experiencing "Shallow Hal" on mushrooms, now this individual is (allegedly) having a pretty intense learning experience throughout - but it's a one way street as the media is learning nothing from me some dude in that situation.
Quote:
connectedcosmos said: Are we all the student and the teacher? Is the teacher just as much a student as the student is a teacher?
My own logic and reasoning had led me to conclude by shaving away the duality they remain one in the same
Yep, slippery! In the example above, the combination of knowledge didn't emerge from the ether, however, and the Farrelly brothers had inspiration from experiences, external teaching that they put into the media. So "Shallow Hal" actually was a student first... And an (alleged) teacher later. Perhaps a form of endless disciplic succession in passing even the smallest of ideas, keeping the student/teacher dynamic/ratio in a constant state of change. So yeah I reckon every student has potential to reach the level of understanding it takes to embody a concept and become a teacher and no teacher was ever NOT a student... so the is obviously first.
Quote:
connectedcosmos said:
Thoughts?
Looking back on this comment, fuck knows... fun thread
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🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28133703 - 01/10/23 01:18 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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One and not one relatively, as one is accomplished in the field while the other is without. If we have identified a teacher, whether a human form or something else, that is good because we have identified with it, like we take on the skillsets and knowledge of teachers in the world.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: syncro] 1
#28133727 - 01/10/23 01:35 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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everyone is a teacudent when openly and honestly learning and sharing!
teaching and teacher are not the same thing!
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burntkitty


Registered: 01/02/23
Posts: 494
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: syncro]
#28133919 - 01/10/23 03:38 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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some like socroties and some like plato. so which fart knocker begetted. What's it got to do with them failing the curvature over time
-------------------- Hating America doesn't make one racist, it probably means they're the complete opposite. That's not it's name pilgrim Shia wang a genius he just kept showing his soft til the paparazzi stopped following Thought capitalism was suppose to stop these soviet union lines If you give me herpes, Ill give you AIDs What kind of sickness do they have for wanting the creative not creative. I can only imagine it's satanism
Edited by burntkitty (01/11/23 08:48 AM)
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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: Lithop] 1
#28133920 - 01/10/23 03:40 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: 'Marriage' might replace 'teacher' as in first comes desire then a marriage with collaborators. The bride of Christ then would be his collaborators.
Interesting take, care to elaborate?
Quote:
Lithop said:
It does seem like classic tail chasing. Taking it apart I feel the definition of what a student is, has built into it some sort of desire in reaching the knowledge or state the teacher already knows/embodies.
So (starting this comment...) I think the teacher comes first, because of the more fluid scope of what can be classified as a teacher, but it's sort of inert/dormant in its teaching role without the perspective of a student. A situation, location, animal, person, plant, piece of art can all be classed as teacher depending on perspective (or how high you are...) but, could you class all of those as students?
Let's say some guy is (hypothetically) experiencing "Shallow Hal" on mushrooms, now this individual is (allegedly) having a pretty intense learning experience throughout - but it's a one way street as the media is learning nothing from me some dude in that situation.
Yep, slippery! In the example above, the combination of knowledge didn't emerge from the ether, however, and the Farrelly brothers had inspiration from experiences, external teaching that they put into the media. So "Shallow Hal" actually was a student first... And an (alleged) teacher later. Perhaps a form of endless disciplic succession in passing even the smallest of ideas, keeping the student/teacher dynamic/ratio in a constant state of change. So yeah I reckon every student has potential to reach the level of understanding it takes to embody a concept and become a teacher and no teacher was ever NOT a student... so the is obviously first.
Looking back on this comment, fuck knows... fun thread 
Interesting I see what you mean , the student can gain insight from a non-human teacher such as a waterfall , or the ocean , and we can't really say the ocean/waterfall learns from us as they exist harmoniously as is (not to say we don't) So to say symbols and concepts and ideas that arise from our observation and interpretation of nature are not taught to what teaches us ... so in the context of that the teacher comes first maybe so , in the context of human to human relationship might trend differently
Now which reminds me of another thing I thought about recently
Inspiration, to inspire is to be inspired, it's a continuous cycle.. all art and music and philosophy etc. are continuations or extensions of previous inspiration , seemingly as dualistic as the student/teacher cycle
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 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28134105 - 01/10/23 05:28 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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It seems dualities in teaching and inspiration relate to our ability to abide. If awake, is there duality?
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Asante
Mage


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Posts: 86,793
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: syncro] 4
#28134927 - 01/11/23 07:15 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Lithop
Spaghetti Days



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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28135011 - 01/11/23 08:33 AM (1 year, 16 days ago) |
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I think when it comes to the human to human relationships there is a vague quality of origin when compared to the type of learning from, say, a waterfall (external source).
Quote:
connectedcosmos said: I was thinking about this the other day as humans we inherently need/desire a guardian, a teacher, someone to guide us
Quote:
connectedcosmos said: ...as they exist harmoniously as is (not to say we don't)
You may argue it's the pursuit of some type of harmony that puts you in the role of student to start with.
Quote:
connectedcosmos said: Inspiration, to inspire is to be inspired, it's a continuous cycle.. all art and music and philosophy etc. are continuations or extensions of previous inspiration , seemingly as dualistic as the student/teacher cycle
Yeah, I reckon one of the cool things about inspiration is being able to trace where a source of inspiration comes from and follow it way back through the cycles.
On the otherhand, what I do with MY interpretation of that inspired feeling and what YOU do with your interpretation could lead to so many different threads of inspiration from that point on, in entirely different fields/ situatuions. Easiest to observe these branches in the inspiration path when you look at two different genre artists talking of being inspired by their mutual musical predecessor.
The model of "Human input" vs "External source" still applies here I feel because we can blatantly be just as, if not MORE, inspired by the processes of nature in action than the most well written book or crafted quote.
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🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿
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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: Lithop] 1
#28139113 - 01/14/23 07:41 AM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: It seems dualities in teaching and inspiration relate to our ability to abide. If awake, is there duality?
I would say no if one sees a non dual reality there is no duality 
Quote:
Lithop said: I think when it comes to the human to human relationships there is a vague quality of origin when compared to the type of learning from, say, a waterfall (external source).
Quote:
connectedcosmos said: I was thinking about this the other day as humans we inherently need/desire a guardian, a teacher, someone to guide us
Quote:
connectedcosmos said: ...as they exist harmoniously as is (not to say we don't)
You may argue it's the pursuit of some type of harmony that puts you in the role of student to start with.
Quote:
connectedcosmos said: Inspiration, to inspire is to be inspired, it's a continuous cycle.. all art and music and philosophy etc. are continuations or extensions of previous inspiration , seemingly as dualistic as the student/teacher cycle
Yeah, I reckon one of the cool things about inspiration is being able to trace where a source of inspiration comes from and follow it way back through the cycles.
On the otherhand, what I do with MY interpretation of that inspired feeling and what YOU do with your interpretation could lead to so many different threads of inspiration from that point on, in entirely different fields/ situatuions. Easiest to observe these branches in the inspiration path when you look at two different genre artists talking of being inspired by their mutual musical predecessor.
The model of "Human input" vs "External source" still applies here I feel because we can blatantly be just as, if not MORE, inspired by the processes of nature in action than the most well written book or crafted quote.

It would depend on the teachings I suppose - how the knowledge was acquired i.e internal or external which again makes me wonder do teachings come from inside or outside of "us"
Great post nonetheless, inspiration is interpreted in many ways like you said by the individual mind , so it can branch out as it does into so many things
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 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28139116 - 01/14/23 07:42 AM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Loved the image Asante thanks for sharing
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 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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syncro
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos] 1
#28139167 - 01/14/23 08:24 AM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
connectedcosmos said:
Quote:
syncro said: It seems dualities in teaching and inspiration relate to our ability to abide. If awake, is there duality?
I would say no if one sees a non dual reality there is no duality 
When I wrote that I was in a space where I was seeing waking duality, but the awareness as a focus rendered it (almost) not relevant, the thought of it subdued... Where do these experiences fly off to? It goes to the point that I thought I was experiencing before; one cannot both be in self awareness, and grasp dualities beyond like on a movie screen. Or to take if further, consciousness and world know nothing of each other.
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Legendno1
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: syncro] 1
#28141006 - 01/15/23 10:41 AM (1 year, 12 days ago) |
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can you really become Self-Aware? could you be a teacher and student, all together seperate from one another both a learned and a learner? the eye with which you see God is the same eye that sees you. does the body not use a right hand and a left hand? both hands and yet, different parts. we are all a part and all the whole, together. We are both learning and teaching continually.
or some crap like that
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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut



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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: Legendno1] 1
#28144835 - 01/17/23 05:25 PM (1 year, 10 days ago) |
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Wisdom calls out into all the streets, atop the city wall she preaches her message aloud! at the city gate her understanding is poured out, to all the simple and foolish and naive her words are clear to them!
Thus Wisdom spoke first, the soon to be wise listened. therefore the teacher came first, than the student.
Quote:
Legendno1 said: can you really become Self-Aware? could you be a teacher and student, all together seperate from one another both a learned and a learner? the eye with which you see God is the same eye that sees you. does the body not use a right hand and a left hand? both hands and yet, different parts. we are all a part and all the whole, together. We are both learning and teaching continually.
or some crap like that
To an extent you can be your own teacher, after all, you form your own conscience with your selected and acquired values, morals and beliefs. your perspective is limited however, you won't see your blind spots without feedback. Plus pride pops up, you think you know it all, but if you did, than will make this planet a better place for yours and ours own sake you lazy selfish egomaniac! ( no offense, not name calling you!) being your own teacher sounds like a cereal killer thinking he's the best, smartest, and most deserving in being justified for his homicidal streak. Submitting to a teacher shows humility, even the buddha studied under various teachers before finding his ancient and renewed path. Giving all my money and possessions to a "Group" and leaving my family and friends to join a "Church" sounds very delusional and regretful, IMHO.
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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BrendanFlock
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: saintdextro] 1
#28145419 - 01/18/23 04:26 AM (1 year, 10 days ago) |
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There is an idea from A Course In Miracles..
Teach to learn
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#28145421 - 01/18/23 04:28 AM (1 year, 10 days ago) |
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Honest education needs to happen on the right time..
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#28145426 - 01/18/23 04:35 AM (1 year, 10 days ago) |
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If everything comes first..
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spinvis
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: BrendanFlock] 1
#28145523 - 01/18/23 07:04 AM (1 year, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
There is no book in the world that is going to teach me. There is no teacher that is going to teach me. Because the teacher is the taught. The disciple is the teacher.
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Lucis
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos] 2
#28148292 - 01/20/23 12:30 AM (1 year, 8 days ago) |
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Maybe the first student became the first teacher.
The student was seeking wisdom and they learned from observations made in their environment certain lessons which then led them to become a teacher to others.
-------------------- ©️
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durian_2008
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28151844 - 01/22/23 10:08 AM (1 year, 5 days ago) |
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If you believe in time, cause, effect, and entropy, there is first cause in a higher order.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: durian_2008]
#28224583 - 03/11/23 12:19 AM (10 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: If you believe in time, cause, effect, and entropy, there is first cause in a higher order.
Naturally;
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#28224983 - 03/11/23 11:08 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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A muse came before the first teacher or student.
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paramnezian
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Re: What came first, the teacher or the student? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28369035 - 06/21/23 04:17 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Student came first, evolved, self learned and when experience reached point became a teacher:)
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