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Northerner
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Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates.
#28133156 - 01/10/23 05:04 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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New measurements indicate dark matter does not exist. I've been waiting for this sort of evidence as I've been a sceptic of the theory since ever.
It's going to distress true believers and make them double down that their maths can't be wrong, that their models of reality must be so. But I hope more people will just accept that there's things we don't yet understand.
Anyone else sense vindication with this news?
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Shroomslip
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner]
#28133172 - 01/10/23 05:37 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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I'm not really for it or against it.
I've always accepted that it's probably there and we just don't have the technology yet to detect it. I feel like that's the case with a lot of things. Assuming we just keep advancing technology, we'll visit other galaxies.
I honestly don't think it's going to be all that long before we can upload our consciences into machines. And then long term, long distance space travel becomes SOOOO much easier.
A lot of people are skeptical we'll ever even be able to leave the solar system, but they're thinking in simple, human terms. Technology is the future and with it, anything can be done. If something isn't currently possible, it's because the technology just hasn't been invented yet.
I kinda went on an intoxicated rant lol. I can't read the article right now I'll come back cuz I'm definitely interested.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Ice9
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Shroomslip] 1
#28133179 - 01/10/23 05:46 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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I'm not sure how entrenched physicists are to dark matter/dark energy. Much like the other theories such as MoND, it's a fudge factor to the standard model with no direct evidence. The evidence for these theories is limited to the math doesn't work without them. Dark matter is the most successful fudge factor because it makes basically all the math work and doesn't break too much other math. This is why researchers put a lot of effort searching for it.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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thetruthsohelp
Stranger

Registered: 03/17/22
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Ice9]
#28133188 - 01/10/23 05:56 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Yup, dark energy and black holes don't exist either.
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Northerner
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Ice9]
#28133193 - 01/10/23 06:02 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Previously it was true that it was just competing fudging of physics, but the thing about this study is it shows physical evidence, it doesn't rely purely on models or theories to justify itself.
Black holes obviously exist, there is even a photo of one now. There was never really any doubt about their existence afaik.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Shroomslip
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner]
#28133204 - 01/10/23 06:12 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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There was. Used to be one of those things little constantly argued about one side thinking the other is stupid and the the other thinking that one is crazy.
Like area 51. I spent my whole life believing in it and mostly everyone thought I was stupid for it. Then I think In the 2005 it was finally declassified. They admitted it to be there, publicly.
I'm guessing that's that vindication you're speaking of.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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thetruthsohelp
Stranger

Registered: 03/17/22
Posts: 363
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Shroomslip]
#28133205 - 01/10/23 06:13 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner] 1
#28133207 - 01/10/23 06:14 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: Previously it was true that it was just competing fudging of physics, but the thing about this study is it shows physical evidence, it doesn't rely purely on models or theories to justify itself.
Black holes obviously exist, there is even a photo of one now. There was never really any doubt about their existence afaik.
Thats not exactly what this study says. They took observations and checked to see if the math worked for these observations.
This theory "should" work for these observations, as it was developed to explain the rotational speed of galaxies in the first place. This shows that it holds true for many galaxies. These type of theories are very hard to prove, and generally rely on being "never wrong" as being right all the time is not proof for, but being wrong once is proof against.
It does also show that regarding this one facet it does have the same explanatory power as dark matter (probably better, as the amount of dark matter outside a particular galaxy is different for each one to explain galactic rotation)
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Ice9]
#28133214 - 01/10/23 06:19 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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It is actually data though, in a field where zero data has existed before.
Sure it's not conclusive, but it's exciting.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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burntkitty


Registered: 01/02/23
Posts: 494
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner]
#28133270 - 01/10/23 07:39 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Is it not positive news? Does it actually disapprove anything or does it not reinforce it?
-------------------- Hating America doesn't make one racist, it probably means they're the complete opposite. That's not it's name pilgrim Shia wang a genius he just kept showing his soft til the paparazzi stopped following Thought capitalism was suppose to stop these soviet union lines If you give me herpes, Ill give you AIDs What kind of sickness do they have for wanting the creative not creative. I can only imagine it's satanism
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Kickle
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner] 1
#28133275 - 01/10/23 07:46 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: Anyone else sense vindication with this news?
It moves physics a bit more into alignment with my understanding of existence yeah
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: thetruthsohelp]
#28133409 - 01/10/23 09:59 AM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
thetruthsohelp said: Yup, dark energy and black holes don't exist either.
What if stars congregate on special points in the universe, as if the hole was always there and it goes more through a change of state. I mean, clearly black holes exist, even if they don't exist. That is to say, on some other plane/dimension ect. Because there is a gravity field whether you want to believe that or not. Imagine how the planet has these points of magnetism all over it except all over the universe. Wells that draw in all this energy but with some sort of limitation so it doesn't destroy the whole system. We know what it is to split an atom. What other types of energetic manipulation could be done on subatomic particles when you have like all of them together at once. Change of state
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Svetaketu
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner]
#28133644 - 01/10/23 12:47 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Something about dark matter always did seem a little hokey. Similar to "the big bang" it has a pretty silly name that invokes some pretty silly mental imagery.
These MoND/AQUAL folks have plenty of work ahead of them though. So far all conceptions of MoND fail to adequately explain gravitational lensing or the dynamics of galaxy clusters. Research done on the bullet cluster does not fit with MoND and provides decent evidence for some kind of "invisible" mass that is not easily explained away.
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druqs
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner]
#28133684 - 01/10/23 01:06 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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in the end, it didn't really matter
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner] 1
#28133701 - 01/10/23 01:16 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: New measurements indicate dark matter does not exist. I've been waiting for this sort of evidence as I've been a sceptic of the theory since ever.
It's going to distress true believers and make them double down that their maths can't be wrong, that their models of reality must be so. But I hope more people will just accept that there's things we don't yet understand.
Anyone else sense vindication with this news?
from your own source:
Quote:
The result is exciting, but it doesn’t conclusively overturn dark matter. The AQUAL model has its own issues, such as its disagreement with observed gravitational lensing by galaxies.
The theopry is not out of the woods yet.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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durian_2008
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Asante]
#28133742 - 01/10/23 01:41 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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imhblo, dark matter was like trying to measure vital signs in Schroedinger's dead cat.
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Tripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!



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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: durian_2008]
#28133794 - 01/10/23 02:12 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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I not personally invested in the dark matter thing but I always dig deep space/nature of reality research articles
Scientifically speaking there are a couple major bombshells in this article like the need to adjust Newtonian physics and Einsteins relativity formula
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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Ice9
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Tripsurfer]
#28133851 - 01/10/23 02:49 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tripsurfer said: I not personally invested in the dark matter thing but I always dig deep space/nature of reality research articles
Scientifically speaking there are a couple major bombshells in this article like the need to adjust Newtonian physics and Einsteins relativity formula
The need to adjust relativity is a necessary consequence of changing Newtonian gravity. This is what I meant when I earlier stated that these fudge factors are as useful related to how much other math they break when added in. It's why dark matter is as popular as it is, it doesn't change the math, it just adds what is essentially numbers to the equation until the results work out. Which is also it's greatest weakness, as anybody can see that seems like an entirely too convenient solution.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Ice9] 1
#28133860 - 01/10/23 02:55 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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That's exactly what bugs me about dark matter theory Ice9.
"Our math doesn't work!" "No problem, there's on invisible and undetectable %70 you forgot add at the end there." "Oh I see, thanks."
I've never been able to reconcile that, no matter how logical people insist it is.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,792
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Re: Dark matter doesn't exist, data indicates. [Re: Northerner]
#28133882 - 01/10/23 03:16 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: That's exactly what bugs me about dark matter theory Ice9.
"Our math doesn't work!" "No problem, there's on invisible and undetectable %70 you forgot add at the end there." "Oh I see, thanks."
I've never been able to reconcile that, no matter how logical people insist it is.
Science is full of those highly suspicious plotholes, like a kid who took thr cookies spinneing the most unlikely tales to avoid the conclusion he stole tre cookies.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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