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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: larry.fisherman] * 1
    #28131773 - 01/09/23 06:34 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Quote:

split_by_nine said:
wanting to have sex is not the same as wanting a baby. if you don't want a baby then you shouldnt be forced to have one



How is it forced when you take actions that result in a baby? Sounds more like accountability to me.




When two people use contraceptives, it is obvious they are not consenting to a child. That's the point of contraceptives.

When someone has been told they are infertile through testing, and they still choose to have sex, they do so with the knowledge that they can't have children. If they aren't planning on having children when they engage in sex as an infertile person, they may or may not consent to a child.

If a person is raped, they most certainly do not consent to the entire act, let alone a child.

There are documented cases of people being diagnosed as infertile, and then suddenly conceiving (one of my best friends has this happen with his wife, as did our mutual friend), it's actually more common than most realize.

There are documented cases where procedures that should absolutely remove the possibility of conception (literally cutting the pathways allowing transport of the egg in the woman or the sperm in the man) that have failed and resulted in conception. All contraceptives have a nonzero failure rate. In the past I looked up some poll data on the average American's sex life and the failure rate of most contraceptives, and if everyone in America was forced to combine a female and a male contraceptive method (like an IUD and a condom) everytime anyone had sex, would still result in about 1.5 million pregnancies per year. This fallibility of contraceptives is not a minor edge scenario.

So if you're arguing that all acts of sex yields accountability for a fetus that may come from that act, regardless of intent, then you are arguing that the act of having sex implies consent for having a child, regardless of the intent of the two people involved in the act and the situation surrounding the act.

So what about people who have chosen not to have a kid, be it from lack of resources, or a self-ID'd inability to provide proper love and care to a child, or just not wanting to live the life of a parent? Do they suddenly lose the ability to have sex with their partners? If consent for a child is implied, and all forms of contraception have a non-zero chance of failure, and you can't trust medical tests to prove that infertility will never result in a pregnancy, then by your argument, two adults who don't want children should never have sex, right?

I hope you realize how impractical and unrealistic this argument is. Consent to sex and consent to having a child are separate things, they always have been, otherwise contraceptives wouldn't exist.


--------------------
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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Invisibletrees
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 1
    #28131799 - 01/09/23 06:59 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I abort millions of babies everytime i bust a nut outside of a vagina. Well, even inside thr vagina millions of potential lives are aborted bc they will never develop into a human, only 1 maybe, but even then  maybe non will survive. My sperm is a human cluster of cells and i abort them at will :whatyougonnado:

Womem do it too whem they have periods. Thats clusters of human embreyo cells getting discharged from the vaginal canal of abortive death. Bc they didnt combine it with my cells, thats a cluster of cells that got aborted each month of pms.

We natrually have abortions all the time. You probably had few abortions this week too.

What if you busted a nut right into a fire, that would be a metal way to abort my babies :hairmetal:


Edited by trees (01/09/23 07:20 AM)


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: trees]
    #28131811 - 01/09/23 07:21 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

trees said:
I abort millions of babies everytime i bust a nut outside of a vagina. Well, even inside thr vagina millions of potential lives are aborted bc they will never develop into a human, only 1 maybe, but even then  maybe non will survive. My sperm is a human cluster of cells and i abort them at will :whatyougonnado:

Womem do it too whem they have periods. Thats clusters of human embreyo cells getting discharged from the vaginal canal of abortive death. Bc they didnt combine it with my cells, thats a cluster of cells that got aborted each month of pms.

We natrually have abortions all the time. You probably had few abortions this week too.




I think most pro-lifers mark the moment of human potential at conception, but I think this highlights how arbitrarily the definition of potential for life can be. :thumbup:


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The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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Invisibletrees
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 3
    #28131845 - 01/09/23 07:55 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I am more pure than the religious with regards to when life starts. My opinionis based in biology and NOT mysticism or superstition

Ever watch Monty Python the Meaning of Life?: every sperm is sacred


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Edited by trees (01/09/23 08:20 AM)


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InvisibleGenericHero
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: trees] * 2
    #28131886 - 01/09/23 08:40 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

trees said:
I abort millions of babies everytime i bust a nut outside of a vagina. Well, even inside thr vagina millions of potential lives are aborted bc they will never develop into a human, only 1 maybe, but even then  maybe non will survive. My sperm is a human cluster of cells and i abort them at will :whatyougonnado:

Womem do it too whem they have periods. Thats clusters of human embreyo cells getting discharged from the vaginal canal of abortive death. Bc they didnt combine it with my cells, thats a cluster of cells that got aborted each month of pms.

We natrually have abortions all the time. You probably had few abortions this week too.

What if you busted a nut right into a fire, that would be a metal way to abort my babies :hairmetal:




The term 'abortion' applies to pregnancies. You literally do not 'abort millions of babies' every time you ejaculate. Neither does a woman when she menstruates.
Pms is 'premenstrual syndrome'. There is some overlap, but it generally begins before menstruation. It is not the same thing as menstruation.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero] * 1
    #28131964 - 01/09/23 09:59 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I missed 30 comments I can't read atm but rape might be the only time I'm like ok, I don't hold wanting an abortion against you at all even though I still think the kid could be a good kid and deserves love etc and that the mother might be happy raising the kid and everyone's life and the world could potentially benefit


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Onlinegopher
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu] * 6
    #28132020 - 01/09/23 10:37 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Once men can get pregnant we will have abortion at every corner store, but in 2023 its kinda hard ro come by


--------------------
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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28132300 - 01/09/23 02:13 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Contraception isn’t abortion by default, no.




That seems somewhat arbitrary. I'm not trying to harp on it but I'm curious as to your opinion on this point: At what stage does it become abortion?

So you don't consider it abortion to get rid of a fertilized embryo, let's say 3 hours after fertilization. But after 8 weeks it'd be abortion. Is there a specific line or time when it'd be abortion vs just contraception? It seems like anything you'd say would be an arbitrary line. One minute it's contraception, wait a bit longer, abortion.


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OnlineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 2
    #28132322 - 01/09/23 02:31 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

unpopular opinion: 'abortion' as a political controversy is just one of the multitude of ways the ruling class keeps the poor at odds with eachother while they rob us blind and spend all our money on wars we never asked for.  Its just a campaign fundraising hot-button and at the end of the day all these war-mongering party constituents own stocks in the same companies.  The dems had control of both houses and could have codified roe v wade at any time but they didn't because it would not have served their interests which--incidentally-- are the same economic interests as those of the republicans. 

But no, keep fighting about it.  Im sure something good will happen.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: BeefSupremeJr] * 2
    #28132328 - 01/09/23 02:35 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Contraception isn’t abortion by default, no.




That seems somewhat arbitrary. I'm not trying to harp on it but I'm curious as to your opinion on this point: At what stage does it become abortion?

So you don't consider it abortion to get rid of a fertilized embryo, let's say 3 hours after fertilization. But after 8 weeks it'd be abortion. Is there a specific line or time when it'd be abortion vs just contraception? It seems like anything you'd say would be an arbitrary line. One minute it's contraception, wait a bit longer, abortion.




You know what was really eye opening to me?
Outside of the US people don't fight about this subject
. It is part of healthcare. That really put things into perspective for me.


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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OnlineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: loladoreen] * 2
    #28132335 - 01/09/23 02:38 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

loladoreen said:
Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Contraception isn’t abortion by default, no.




That seems somewhat arbitrary. I'm not trying to harp on it but I'm curious as to your opinion on this point: At what stage does it become abortion?

So you don't consider it abortion to get rid of a fertilized embryo, let's say 3 hours after fertilization. But after 8 weeks it'd be abortion. Is there a specific line or time when it'd be abortion vs just contraception? It seems like anything you'd say would be an arbitrary line. One minute it's contraception, wait a bit longer, abortion.




You know what was really eye opening to me?
Outside of the US people don't fight about this subject
. It is part of healthcare. That really put things into perspective for me.




BUT HOW DO THEY RAISE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR THEIR CAMPAIGNS? tHaT DoNt mAkE nO SiNcE!


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OnlineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28132344 - 01/09/23 02:49 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Contraception isn’t abortion by default, no.




That seems somewhat arbitrary. I'm not trying to harp on it but I'm curious as to your opinion on this point: At what stage does it become abortion?

So you don't consider it abortion to get rid of a fertilized embryo, let's say 3 hours after fertilization. But after 8 weeks it'd be abortion. Is there a specific line or time when it'd be abortion vs just contraception? It seems like anything you'd say would be an arbitrary line. One minute it's contraception, wait a bit longer, abortion.



No this is a good question because it is literally the entire topic of discussion. When is it a person?

When I say contraception, for the sake of disambiguating my usage of the term, it’s preventing conception at all. It isn’t arbitrary. It’s the prevention of conception by name.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28132479 - 01/09/23 04:30 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
No this is a good question because it is literally the entire topic of discussion. When is it a person?

When I say contraception, for the sake of disambiguating my usage of the term, it’s preventing conception at all. It isn’t arbitrary. It’s the prevention of conception by name.




That is fair, but it still would result in rapists' babies being born if abortion is not allowed. Conception can occur as soon as 3 minutes after sex. A person who is raped and not on birth control could get pregnant, even 200 years from now.

I could understand and respect the argument that it's still a life even if conceived under those circumstances and should be carried to term. But if that's the position the consequences of that would have to be accepted. Condemning women to the torture of carrying an unwanted baby and spreading rapists genes to the next generation.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: CreonAntigone] * 1
    #28132483 - 01/09/23 04:34 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

To me I like accountability and taking responsibility

Someone who's been raped in no way shape or form is responsible or should be held accountable

I think that's my stance

People just fucking like bunnies not caring going to the store and getting OTC for their pregnancy seems a degradation of morality and character at a societal level

Maybe im wrong

I just think people should be more responsible and normally when you make a mistake you have to deal with the consequences which is accountability for your actions

You will be accountable and responsible for choosing to have an abortion too, whatever those consequences may be


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Within You , Without You


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
    #28132489 - 01/09/23 04:36 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

You guys act like rapist don't have kids

Some rapist have kids anyway so the idea you will wipe out racist genes is eh

No more an argument than gays or trans will die off because they don't reproduce


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Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
    #28132518 - 01/09/23 04:53 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
To me I like accountability and taking responsibility

Someone who's been raped in no way shape or form is responsible or should be held accountable

I think that's my stance

People just fucking like bunnies not caring going to the store and getting OTC for their pregnancy seems a degradation of morality and character at a societal level

Maybe im wrong

I just think people should be more responsible and normally when you make a mistake you have to deal with the consequences which is accountability for your actions

You will be accountable and responsible for choosing to have an abortion too, whatever those consequences may be



But would you stand by your original definition conservatism as of love for small government and letting people do their own thing as long as you're left alone, regardless of you personal feelings about it?

Edited for clarity.


--------------------
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


Edited by Jean-Luc Picard (01/09/23 04:54 PM)


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 1
    #28132521 - 01/09/23 04:56 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I never said I could or would force people to do anything

Just said what I'd do myself, what I would support, what I would encourage

I will always be for small government in every way

My argument wasn't political or about abortion laws


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
    #28132526 - 01/09/23 05:04 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
I never said I could or would force people to do anything

Just said what I'd do myself, what I would support, what I would encourage

I will always be for small government in every way

My argument wasn't political or about abortion laws



That was my question from a while back, I think it started yet another argument about the morality of abortion, rather than actually answering the question.

I'm not sure if you've answered it yet. The wording above is a little inconclusive.

If you could influence policy, would you make abortion illegal, or do you think that abortion should be left as a choice for each individual to make, based on their own opinions of its morality?

Same question for allowing families to support their offspring choosing their own gender identity. Would you leave it up to each family's opinion on the morality of such acts, or would you legislate bans or limitations?

In a similar vein, when you are looking for political candidates to vote for, is their campaigning on abortion bans or limitations part of what gets them your vote?


--------------------
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard]
    #28132534 - 01/09/23 05:08 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I don't currently engage in politics at all at any level


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Within You , Without You


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
    #28132542 - 01/09/23 05:13 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I'll let everyone else duke it out

If I did anything it would be to speak my opinion and if it influenced people who do play the politics game then that would be my only influence on politics

I don't believe in being an uneducated participator in politics and since I don't have or don't make the time maybe, I'm not educated enough or up to date enough on anyone or anything to make an accurate decision

That might change moving into the future

I likely wouldn't vote on anything related to abortion

If I participate in politics it would likely be when my kids get in school and I start getting pissed at the curriculum

I'll vote for small government everything and whoever is limiting government is who gets my vote


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Within You , Without You


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