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 The Ecstatic
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Especially since elevating unbridled greed is making the idea of hunting and gathering increasingly untenable.
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 Enlil 
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
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That middle ground is called America.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
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 Re: us versus them  [Re: Enlil]
#28135930 - 01/11/23 08:06 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I guess if your metric is military spending, then yeah we’re #1.
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Anahata
Registered: 02/25/12
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Re: us versus them [Re: Anahata]
#28135934 - 01/11/23 08:07 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anahata said:
Quote:
split_by_nine said:
who are the enemy? and why?
I blame the ones in power at the top that keep secrets from the masses.
Of course i dont know what secrets nor can i name names or provide court approved documentation of this but i know its going on.
Secrets suck.
Also this
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,265
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
I guess if your metric is military spending, then yeah we’re #1.
You seem confused. There was no discussion about being #1. We were talking about a middle ground between boundless greed and hunter/gatherer.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: us versus them [Re: Enlil]
#28136388 - 01/12/23 09:05 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
I guess if your metric is military spending, then yeah we’re #1.
You seem confused. There was no discussion about being #1. We were talking about a middle ground between boundless greed and hunter/gatherer.
A middle ground based on what? Every nation on earth is a middle ground between those two things. And military spending is the only metric where we exceed others.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,265
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I'm not as smart as you. Maybe you can explain the nexus between military spending and the overall level of citizen exploitation of other citizens, because I don't see any relation between the two whatsoever.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: us versus them [Re: Enlil]
#28136531 - 01/12/23 11:18 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Why limit our discussion to citizens of a particular country? Certainly warfare has historically mostly been about exploitation of particular areas and the people who live in them. That was true in Roman times and it is true today. People generally understand this to be the case to the extent that there was much whining in the U.S. that we didn't directly seize the oil infrastructure in Iraq and "pay ourselves back" post-Saddam. Certainly, our mis-adventures in South America could be viewed as military endeavors in service of exploitation, by a reasonable person.
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SirTripAlot
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Wars are fought for economic purposes. I can kinda see the link of how spending the most in the world, many times over on military spending could be viewed as "too much" exploitation .....but exploitation is not always a bad thing and in fact could and does bring positive outcomes directly and indirectly to a situation.
People have exploited others labor, which generated taxes, which now funds the Ukraine endeavor...is that a bad thing?
Who is gonna drop their spears first? No one.
Therefore, attempting to hold the biggest spear to protect a countries interest via exploitation in a capitalism system isn't bad, IMO. Otherwise, prepare for an ass raping by the new big spear.
Yes, we have fucked up in past....dollars to donuts we do attempt to do the right thing. Easy to see and critique when your the sole one on the top of the hill.
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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/12/23 01:11 PM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
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Re: us versus them [Re: Enlil]
#28138385 - 01/13/23 05:53 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
I'm not as smart as you. Maybe you can explain the nexus between military spending and the overall level of citizen exploitation of other citizens, because I don't see any relation between the two whatsoever.
It’s got nothing to do with it, but it’s the only metric available that would put America above another nation. Wealth equality would probably be the best metric to judge this middle ground on, if you had to pick just one.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,265
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Since humans aren't equal, we shouldn't expect human achievement to be equal. This would include the amassing of wealth
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Anahata
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Re: us versus them [Re: Enlil]
#28138643 - 01/13/23 08:18 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Since humans aren't equal, we shouldn't expect human achievement to be equal. This would include the amassing of wealth
Wrong
And secondly, there's a difference between human achievement and individual achievement pal.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,265
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: us versus them [Re: Anahata]
#28138645 - 01/13/23 08:20 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Nah.
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Brian Jones
Club 27
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
I'm not as smart as you. Maybe you can explain the nexus between military spending and the overall level of citizen exploitation of other citizens, because I don't see any relation between the two whatsoever.
It’s got nothing to do with it, but it’s the only metric available that would put America above another nation. Wealth equality would probably be the best metric to judge this middle ground on, if you had to pick just one.
What about nonmilitary spending? Who's number one in that?
Yes, we have fucked up countless times, but we remain the model for the nonauthoritarian world, who vastly prefer us to China, and soon to be out of the conversation entirely, Russia. India will be in the conversation, along with others. Russia is done.
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
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Re: us versus them [Re: Enlil]
#28139417 - 01/14/23 11:40 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Since humans aren't equal, we shouldn't expect human achievement to be equal. This would include the amassing of wealth
That’s horseshit but you still haven’t said what your metric is for crowning America has the best middle ground.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
I'm not as smart as you. Maybe you can explain the nexus between military spending and the overall level of citizen exploitation of other citizens, because I don't see any relation between the two whatsoever.
It’s got nothing to do with it, but it’s the only metric available that would put America above another nation. Wealth equality would probably be the best metric to judge this middle ground on, if you had to pick just one.
What about nonmilitary spending? Who's number one in that?
Yes, we have fucked up countless times, but we remain the model for the nonauthoritarian world, who vastly prefer us to China, and soon to be out of the conversation entirely, Russia. India will be in the conversation, along with others. Russia is done.
Authoritarianism is a joke of a concept. America kills maims and otherwise oppresses far more people than “authoritarian” nations do, but since you determine those events to all be accidents then we can say we are non authoritarian. A joke.
Either way, why wouldn’t we be the model? We conquered the planet, and snuffed out any alternative model. It’s like if I shot all the kids in my school and then claimed I’m the valedictorian.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
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While I don't disagree with some of your references to the pitfalls of American imperialism. I also belive it was the system itself (capitalism) and the mode of government that made this possible....there isn't an alterante form of governance or economic policy that has eclipsed the US.
If the US was so bad, why do 50 million foreign born people live here? Why do we continue attract so many people? The US gives the most humanitarian aid than any other country. We are not 100% evil.
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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Skellies
Registered: 06/02/15
Posts: 823
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Quote:
split_by_nine said:
who are the enemy? and why?
I don’t think most issues people face, in the US at least, can be accurately broiled down to a simple us and them dichotomy. Especially systemic ones where people don’t have to act in a bad way to get bad results.
It can feel cathartic to rail against (insert any ideology’s bad guy here) , but once you actually try find solutions it can turn out there’s a lot more to the issue.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
While I don't disagree with some of your references to the pitfalls of American imperialism. I also belive it was the system itself (capitalism) and the mode of government that made this possible....there isn't an alterante form of governance or economic policy that has eclipsed the US.
If the US was so bad, why do 50 million foreign born people live here? Why do we continue attract so many people? The US gives the most humanitarian aid than any other country. We are not 100% evil.
If Britain was so bad why did Jamaicans and Pakistanis move there?
Because it was the imperial core, and they wanted a better life. I’m not suddenly virtuous because all my neighbors showed up at my door (because I burned all their houses down).
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
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What's your solution?
Should we parcel out the United States (insert any other country) to the native Americans or the earliest lineage of peoples....and tell everyone else to move out?
So no matter the amount of people we take from foreign lands, the USA or any other country can do no good due to previous transgressions?
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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/14/23 03:31 PM)
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