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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28128253 - 01/06/23 09:05 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
You are actually pretty consistently a reasonable, thoughtful poster and I appreciate you. I’m glad you’re here.




I appreciate that though I know damn well I've made a fool of myself more than once

:strokebeard:


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard]
    #28128255 - 01/06/23 09:05 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jean-Luc Picard said:
Quote:

loladoreen said:
I feel that all the positive things I was taught from religion are the things no one follows.
Love one another.
Only god judges.
doing service work.



This is something that really accelerated my departure from Christianity. The vast majority of Christians that I've interacted with over the years were so caught up in homosexuality or metal music or premarital sex and how to force and/or brainwash people into following their biased idea of a "Christian life" that they forget to live by the fundamentals themselves. :shrug:



SAME


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 1
    #28128256 - 01/06/23 09:06 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Quote:

loladoreen said:
Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Faith without action, it don’t mean a thing

It’s about as useless as a screen door on a submarine

I agree with that, but not in the way that you’re interpreting it. It doesn’t mean you have to do 10 Hail Marys or whatever they’re called and go to church. It means faith IS action. None of us are living in a hole in the ground hooked up to an IV, asleep for our whole lives. Your faith is your behavior, it’s in what you do and how you act daily. I don’t see the two as separate.

Again this is just what is practiced, I’m not trying to preach at you.

The idea in Christianity is that, once you start a relationship with Christ and allow him into you spiritually it will necessitate action and a desire to do what you’re supposed to. It’s part and parcel.

But there’s nothing you’re ever going to do to lose salvation and there’s nothing you’re ever going to do to earn it. That’s the point. It isn’t that you don’t do anything at all, it’s that you’re not measuring your value by what you have or haven’t done, because it’s an unattainable standard.

Besides that, Mormonism isn’t Christian. That’s not a “No true Scotsman” fallacy, either. They were literally fooled by a man with a whole new book. It is a different set of teachings.



They believe they are christian because they believe in Christ.



And John Smith. Christ and John Smith.




I think you mean Joseph Smith


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #28128264 - 01/06/23 09:08 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

That’s fine if they believe that. I personally disagree with it, sure. It doesn’t contradict my thoughts, as I can tell? I think I’m missing some part of this conversation.

It isn’t that I don’t accept their interpretation, it’s more of a factual matter about WHAT they believe. This whole discussion is about radical misconceptions, not my personal faith. I personally don’t believe Catholics or Mormons have any business calling themselves Christian. They’re pretty awful religions. But that isn’t what we were discussing, as far as I understood it.

Repentance isn’t magical. It is completely contingent on whether or not you mean it. The passage in Leviticus about homosexuality was almost certainly a mistranslation about pedophilia. In no way is violence against women or other people ok.

The Abrahamic faith underwent a reformation with the life and death of Christ. There are objective facts about what that means and there are interpretations about what that means.

But I wasn’t talking about that granular stuff. You responded about a specific comment I made towards trees that made me think you just wanted me to back up statements about why the aggressively incorrect things he was saying were incorrect.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: loladoreen]
    #28128265 - 01/06/23 09:08 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I may very well, excuse me.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 1
    #28128287 - 01/06/23 09:16 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Quote:

Jean-Luc Picard said:
Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Enkidu, I have never agreed so hard with someone about my faith who wasn’t actively participating in it. That sums up so many of my feelings.



I've also already posted about this as well. If you're telling people they're wrong or mistaken about Christianity, or claiming that certain interpretations of the Bible "isn't christian", but then turn right around and say that it's up to the individual to read the same scripture and make their own interpretation that best fits with their soul, then it seems like you might be contradicting yourself. How do we know where the human error or corruption is?

How do you know that your individual interpretation isn't riddled with tons of error, while those interpretations that you disagree with might contain less error? If that's the case, how can you say with any certainty that anybody's interpretation of the Bible is wrong?



We might be having two different conversations, then. I’m not contradicting myself, and I didn’t say anything about “true Christians.”

I’m speaking about trees’s misconceptions regarding what people believe at large. Christians don’t want to persecute gays or harm women. They don’t live debauched lives and magically repent right before they die to get into heaven.

It’s just factually incorrect. I wasn’t talking at all about how people SHOULD believe or what’s moral or immoral. Just that he was objectively mistaken about his perceptions.




I think you are pretty sheltered if you believe this. I grew up in the southeast, I've attended a lot of churches and talked to a lot of self-identifying Christians. A ton of them cite their faith as the reason for being vehemently opposed to allowing gay marriage or abortions in any form, and adamantly advocate for those opinions to be codified into law, voting for literally any idiot that will include those goals into their campaign promises.

I know people who live extremely shitty lives, call themselves Christian (and will get into a fistfight with you if you try to indicate otherwise), are blatant racists and homophobes/transphobes, and show up to church every Sunday (usually hungover) to ask for forgiveness.

You can claim that they aren't real Christians, but going back to the internal experience and individual interpretation points, how do you know what their relationship with christ is? How do you know that their interpretation of the Bible isn't just as right for their soul as yours is for your soul? Thus, how can you say with any confidence that tree's claims are "factually incorrect", when I have literally experienced both of these flavors of Christians?

This was my whole point, no one person can speak for the whole of Christianity, and as Lola pointed out, it's not a true Christian's business to judge other interpretations or individuals as being Christian or not Christian. As you and enkidu indicated earlier, Christianity is an individual thing, and the only thing that you can be sure of is that individual relationship that you feel with your savior, not anybody else's. Unfortunately, this means that the historical sins of other "Christians" will ultimately be associated with your version of Christianity, whether it should be or not. :shrug:


--------------------
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #28128299 - 01/06/23 09:21 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

All I have is my own life experience. Worst belief that I’ve heard openly expressed in the churches I grew up in in Texas - sometimes the not great parts of Texas - were that I wasn’t welcome because I was young.

Im not so naive that I don’t believe those things exist. I guess I just never heard or saw them. They must exist because people fervently say they do, but they were nowhere near me.

I do disagree with a few things in your last response, but I don’t consider them pertinent to the questions I was answering. It’s a hard thing for a lot of people to understand, but the acts of men aren’t indicative of anything but themselves. I don’t lay people’s sins at the feet of Christ and say it’s his fault. That to me is a very childlike understanding of things, akin to thinking the stove is evil because it burned your hand.

Edit: I’m still not sure why you keep mentioning “real Christians.” That’s neither the topic of discussion nor something I’ve said.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard]
    #28128306 - 01/06/23 09:25 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I've actually also always viewed Christianity and organized religion as community religions and less personal though I agree with what you mean in terms of your relationship with God or what have you

Usually your relationship with God and Jesus is a group type of thing discussed with and agreed upon right? If you're in church?

I think one of the major strong points of organized religion is just that part of bringing community together

I do like that aspect of it even if I don't know that I believe what they believe etc or like the whole "we all believe the same thing and I'll tell you what that is"

It's so hard to keep everything operating smoothly

Everything is a double edged sword


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard]
    #28128307 - 01/06/23 09:25 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Well said.

Bottom line if someone's beliefs are they are christian. That's ok

Remember when they used to say you don't discuss religion, politics and money? It is because it is personal to a person. That is a lot of peoples core beliefs.

I don't feel I have the right to tell someone their beliefs are wrong.. who am I to tell someone their deep beliefs are wrong.
I have no right.. at all.

If it is just for discussion on our beliefs I think that it is fine.

I will never tell someone they are wrong or their god/church/faith/religion is wrong.
Why inflict harm. Its being an asshole.


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #28128309 - 01/06/23 09:27 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
I've actually also always viewed Christianity and organized religion as community religions and less personal though I agree with what you mean in terms of your relationship with God or what have you

Usually your relationship with God and Jesus is a group type of thing discussed with and agreed upon right? If you're in church?

I think one of the major strong points of organized religion is just that part of bringing community together

I do like that aspect of it even if I don't know that I believe what they believe etc or like the whole "we all believe the same thing and I'll tell you what that is"

It's so hard to keep everything operating smoothly

Everything is a double edged sword




I always thought your personal relationship with .. god or creator or whatever.
Was exactly that, personal. Involving no one unless invited.


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: loladoreen]
    #28128310 - 01/06/23 09:27 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

loladoreen said:
Well said.

Bottom line if someone's beliefs are they are christian. That's ok.




That was the sentiment that started the discussion.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: loladoreen]
    #28128321 - 01/06/23 09:31 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Is that what's taught?

It just seemed like everything was so worked on and discussed together that it would be hard to be personal since it's the same for everyone but maybe that's not how Christians view it

I've also always thought Jesus and your relationship with Jesus was really just a way of using something external to help the individual develop a relationship with themselves or their "higher self"

Like an external creation designed to facilitate internal understanding,  embodiment, and growth


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #28128331 - 01/06/23 09:35 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I’m certain that’s how plenty of people think, yes. I have friends who identify as Christian but aren’t interested in whether or not Christ was even a real person. Church is really just supposed to be community. Bureaucracy infects churches and turns them into something else, at least in my experience.

Very few churches come together and do anything at all to “live the life” so to speak. They’ll raise $300k dollars for a new building they don’t need while someone sleeps on the streets. But I suppose I’m off on a tangent.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #28128333 - 01/06/23 09:35 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

That is an interesting way to look at it.
Everyone has different experiences and backgrounds and view it differently. It certainly is interesting to hear other views.


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 1
    #28128337 - 01/06/23 09:36 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
I’m certain that’s how plenty of people think, yes. I have friends who identify as Christian but aren’t interested in whether or not Christ was even a real person. Church is really just supposed to be community. Bureaucracy infects churches and turns them into something else, at least in my experience.

Very few churches come together and do anything at all to “live the life” so to speak. They’ll raise $300k dollars for a new building they don’t need while someone sleeps on the streets. But I suppose I’m off on a tangent.



ME personally- that burns my ass..
Pisses me off.
There are so many in need. And.. it contradicts EVERYTHING I learned as a child about religion. Love one another..


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #28128345 - 01/06/23 09:39 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

100%.

My mom and one of my uptight friends wants me to find a church home so bad. They think because I’m not in a church I have somehow “strayed” from my faith.

Show me a church with a purpose and I’ll go. I don’t even have to agree with all of their dogma. Show me sweating bodies, open arms, generous hands and i will go.

I can’t find it anywhere.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28128348 - 01/06/23 09:40 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Because you find that inside yourself
not a building
my feelings


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow] * 1
    #28128355 - 01/06/23 09:43 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I agree wholeheartedly ❤️


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28128358 - 01/06/23 09:44 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I wish my parents understood that LOL


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: loladoreen] * 1
    #28128363 - 01/06/23 09:46 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

To me religion and ancient wisdom is an attempt to put the ineffable into words

Metaphors and analogies designed to lead the the person to the answer so they can see it for themselves

Heaven and hell for instance I never interpreted as places you go when you die but an explanation about sin and good deed and that if you do what is right you will live in heaven on earth now

And if you sin and do what is wrong you will experience hell on earth

That this realm is both and our choices determine what we create and experience


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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