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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Swami]
    #2817111 - 06/22/04 02:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

but swami, thats not what i said at all. Your saying that someone who loves music or architectural beauty should be rewarded with money and i agree entirely. But those people are devoting their lives to beauty and music, not to money. Theres a big differance between someone who does what they love and happens to get money and someone who does what it takes to get money.

if you read carefully youll notice that what i said was "if you devote your life to capital and the pursuit of money, you are most likely not dedicating your life to spiritual pursuits"

whereas what you are saying is "if you dedicate your life to music or beauty you should be rewarded with money"

you see how thats not quite the same thing?
i mean its simple, if you devote your life to money, your life is devoted to money.

Its not that complicated, if you devote your life to playing hockey, your most likely not dedicating it to coalmining.

If you dedicate your life to astrology, your probably not dedicating it to geometry.

If you dedicate your life to war, your probably not dedicating it to peace.

if you dedicate your life to material gain, your probably not dedicating it to spiritual learning.

and i wasnt calling sclorch a retard, im simply saying that i think spiritual teaching should be based on an honest desire to communicate a truth that you have found enlightening, for the benefit of others, rather than for the sake of making coin.

once again, if you dont get that you dont get it. I understand that some people disagree, and actually think that selling spirituality for the sole purpose of wealth is a good thing, but those people and me have no common ground on which to base a discussion, so i simply said if you dont understand my point i cant make you, if you dont get it you dont get it.

I didnt mean to be demeaning or arrogant when i said that.

PEACE
:mushroom2:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2817155 - 06/22/04 02:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Its not that complicated, if you devote your life to playing hockey, your most likely not dedicating it to coalmining.

Puh-lease. Is this the best that you can do? Here let me try a Moonshoeism: If you devote your life to playing hockey, your most likely not dedicating it to your family.

Juxtaposing two occupations is hardly even remotely analagous to comparing an activity and an attitude.

A spiritual attitude can be practiced in everything that you do. It does not require long retreats in far-off lands.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2817179 - 06/22/04 03:03 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Your saying that someone who loves music or architectural beauty should be rewarded with money and i agree entirely. But those people are devoting their lives to beauty and music, not to money.

*Coughs* Bullshit. It is for BOTH. An architect (or any professional) would not voluntarily waste a year of his time not to get rewarded.

And if people want to buy Andrews books, then she deserves a reward as well. Is that difficult? Readers are either receiving valuable information or entertainment or both. With a dozen books, she must be offering something. ALL AUTHORS write to get paid. Hoohoo's judgement on her tells me of Hoohoo, not of Andrews.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Swami]
    #2817237 - 06/22/04 03:20 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

sigh. Again, im NOT trying to say that people shouldnt get paid for their work, im simply saying you shouldnt work JUST TO GET PAID, especially if your 'work' involves spiritual teaching, its simply too much of a conflict of interest.

I do admit that my two-career path analogy was weak though. this all started with a discussion of why this woman's book never sold, and someone said it was because the whole thing was written just to profit, and thus it wasnt authentic.

But honestly, in my own life i have found spiritual enlightenment and capitalist pursuits to be somewhat exclusive, and ive found that more and more when i try to plan my future.

Society is telling me that i have to go to get a job, so i can make money, but first i have to go to school so that i can get a GOOD job and make GOOD money, but in order to go to school i need LOTS of money, and that involves loans, and that involves Debt, and then ill need to have a place close to the university, and that means rents to pay, and ill probably need a car, and gas...

and what ends up happening is money enslaves me. I need money to make more money and more money to make more money... and then the true purpose of life, to gain insight and wisdom is lost...


so its tough


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2817276 - 06/22/04 03:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

im simply saying you shouldnt work JUST TO GET PAID
Would it be better to starve and not support one's family? "Honey, I know that I am out of work, but I cannot in good conscious take a job merely for a paycheck." All I am hearing is baseless judgement as if people were one-dimensional.

especially if your 'work' involves spiritual teaching, its simply too much of a conflict of interest.
Who determines this? Why should one type of knowledege transfer be different than another? Because you have decided?

this all started with a discussion of why this woman's book never sold,
Her books have been selling quite well.

and someone said it was because the whole thing was written just to profit, and thus it wasnt authentic.
After this same poster admitted Carlos books were lies, but he still recommended them. No hypocracy there.

Let's go to Amazon to see what a reader says:

***** (five stars) As usual, Lynn V. Andrews weaves her magic!, March 6, 2001

Reviewer: A reader from San Diego, CA
From the first book I've read of Lynn V. Andrews works, starting from Woman of Wyrrd and not in order, Medicine Woman, Crystal Woman, Star Woman, Jaguar Woman, and all the others, I find that I could not put any of her books down until I got to absorb every detail and experience. She has brought me enlightenment by awakening my eyes to significant events and similar situations that equate to mine. In this book, this teaches us about our animal spirit, the south, west, east and north wheel where she had described from Star Woman that east represents the rational thinking while the west is the emotional, the south; physical and the north, the spiritual and enlightenment. There is so much to learn from each of her books and this one is no exception. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for the truth within us.


But honestly, in my own life i have found spiritual enlightenment and capitalist pursuits to be somewhat exclusive
So in your daily life you cannot practice, patience, compassion, understanding and being in the moment?

and then the true purpose of life
You admit to not having enough time to devote to spirituality, but you ALREADY have acquired deep wisdom and know the answers? It is hard to follow you, bro.


Edited by Swami (06/25/04 03:12 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Swami]
    #2822247 - 06/23/04 10:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I was gone on a mini vacation for a few days (fly fishing in the Smoky Mountains) and I did not see how this unfolded until today. So I reply. Point 1: It should be noted that the first line in the Intro to Casteneda's first book says "This book is both fact and allegory." Carlos noted in his books that this tradition was NOT native to Mexico. Carlos was a Peruvian pushing a, most likely, Peruvian line. Point 2: There is nothing wrong with making money off of books on spiritualism as long as the purpose is to not do so by duping the gullible.(just my opinion)I think Carlos was presenting an authentic viewpoint, but later in his career he stooped to blatent commercialism (tensegrity) or so I believe. When dealing with other cultures one should be respectful of their traditions and do a good job representing them. Point 3: I have studied the shamanic traditions of over 30 separate cultures and I can tell you with a little authority that the core of shamanic practice is always the same no matter where in the world it is practiced. This is refered to as core shamanism by anthropologist Mike Harner. Only the myths and small details of ceremony are changed. The drumming, healing methods, and world view are quite similar. I feel that to practice a culture specific type of shamanism would be disrespectful of that culture. The Andrews book I read, while using Lakota Indian imagery, bore more relation to new age spiritualism than shamanism. Using things like meditation cards is not associated with shamanic practice. I think Casteneda had many failings, but it was his books (read in high school) that kindled my interest in shamanism, and that is why I like Casteneda. I was severely let down by the commercial efforts he made at the end of his life.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/23/04 11:07 PM)


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Swami]
    #2827811 - 06/25/04 01:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't read Andrews because Castaneda was original and I just can't handle copycats.


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...or something







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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: eve69]
    #2828146 - 06/25/04 03:07 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I haven't read Andrews because Castaneda was original and I just can't handle copycats.




Yeah.... like he wasn't ripping off others.  :rolleyes:


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: eve69]
    #2828167 - 06/25/04 03:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

*scratches head* If you have read one autobiography, then you have read them all? Does that even make sense to you?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Swami]
    #2828385 - 06/25/04 04:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

During my 20s I reread all of Casteneda's work along with every available biography in my efforts to determine his veracity. I even read the book DeMille wrote to debunk him. Since his death I have read a bit more.


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OfflineLoneDeranger
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Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 374
Loc: Nonething
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2887019 - 07/13/04 07:24 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

And what do you have to say about that Huehuecoyotl? I just now started reading his works, great stuff. Definitely sparked my interest in shamanism.


--------------------
Mescalito is my homeboy...


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Lynne V. Andrews (female Castaneda) [Re: LoneDeranger]
    #2887388 - 07/13/04 09:46 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Ms. Andrews, while Swami might think she is mega-hot, (and she might be I never looked at her picture when I read her book) is a poser, uninformed of Native American Shamanism. Castaneda's early works are good, but beware you are reading an interesting mix of philosophy and fiction. Traditional shamanism is much less complex, but by all means read Castaneda as he gives you much to think about. Demille's book debunking Castaneda needed debunking as well it was so shot full of holes. Also check out this link: http://www.nativeamericanchurch.com/peyote.html for an accurate view of traditional peyote use...it contrasts with Castaneda's experience severely.


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