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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: uki]
    #2817552 - 06/22/04 03:04 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

:rotfl:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2817595 - 06/22/04 03:23 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Let's clarify, you have the right to operate your property(this case car) ON your property. You are granted the priviledge to use your vehicle on the state or public or another private citizen's property.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2817610 - 06/22/04 03:30 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Let's clarify, you have the right to operate your property(this case car) ON your property.



Try driving through a wetland even if it's on your own property. Or perhaps through an area that has been found to have some protected plant or critter life.


Quote:

You are granted the priviledge to use your vehicle on the state or public or another private citizen's property.



Accurate enough.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2817856 - 06/22/04 04:31 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

driving is a right, not a privilege



No, it's not.






What about owning money?

Is that a right or a privilidge?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2817879 - 06/22/04 04:34 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Money is property. Property ownership is a right. By the same token, people have a right to own a car obtained through non-coercive means. They do not have a right to drive it on public roads.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: silversoul7]
    #2818008 - 06/22/04 04:58 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Oh right, I was thinking in terms of electriclibertarianland.

So someone would have the right to drive around on their own property.


But land can't be property remember? :lol:


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Offlineuki
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: silversoul7]
    #2818013 - 06/22/04 04:59 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

owning money is neither a right, nor a priviledge... it is merely a convienience... (did i spell that right?)


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Anonymous

Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: uki]
    #2818023 - 06/22/04 05:02 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

owning money is neither a right, nor a priviledge

it's got to be one or the other. either it's a privilege bestowed upon you, or an inherent right.

what makes you say it's neither?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: ]
    #2818172 - 06/22/04 05:48 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Feel free to opt out of the convenience of a flexible medium of exchange any time you wish. Neither right nor privelege. Do without all you want. And I don't have to honor your money at all.


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OfflineCyber
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Registered: 06/14/04
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Loc: Dearborn Michigan
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2831828 - 06/26/04 09:21 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

The right or privilege to travel?

I say it is a right!

Let me start by quoting the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson,

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Amendment IX of the Constution of the United States

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

and Amendment X

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."


Now with this in mind take a look at some of the court rulings!

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."- Thompson v Smith 154 SE 579.

Undoubtedly the right of locomotion, the right to remove from one place to another according to inclination, is an attribute of personal Liberty, and the right, ordinarily, of free transit from or through the territory of any State is a right secured by the l4th Amendment and by other provisions of the Constitution." - Schactman v Dulles, 96 App D.C. 287, 293.


So the courts have had several rulings that back up the right of a person to travel.

To top this off, there is no license or regestration requirements for horses or animal drawn carts. Yet they travel the same roads.

We all have a right to travel that was endowed by our creator. How we travel is up to us!


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Anonymous

Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: Cyber]
    #2831865 - 06/26/04 09:40 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

We all have a right to travel that was endowed by our creator. How we travel is up to us!

you're right, but this doesn't mean i can walk into an airport or train station and demand a free seat.


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OfflineCyber
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Registered: 06/14/04
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: ]
    #2831890 - 06/26/04 09:53 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

That is correct! But then that would be the difference between Owning the train, plane, or car and renting a seat on one. If I build a small ultralight plane or hot air balloon I can use the sky for free! Rail tracks are privately owned and not part of the public road system built by the government.


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: The Libertarian implications of traffic laws [Re: Phred]
    #3036511 - 08/22/04 02:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Bumped for DividedSky


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