|
faithfulcrows
Your Friend



Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 1 year, 14 days
|
Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens?
#28099438 - 12/15/22 07:18 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I had a look around, and I think this is the best place to post my question, but if it's not just let me know and I'll move it 
Does anyone know about naturally occurring empathogens? Searching the forums here along with the internet provides very little answers.
I know that mescaline can provide secondary empathogenic effects, but I am looking for a chemical which is empathogen first and anything else second. I feel like this surely must exist and is known about.
Thoughts?
--------------------
  They hold the keys to wisdom, And the knowledge of the earth, And when used with respect and care, They can unlock our inner truths and worth.
|
Blue Cthulhu
Undefined



Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 495
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 3 hours, 33 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: faithfulcrows]
#28099585 - 12/15/22 08:42 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Some consider chocolate/cacao to be a heart-opener and empathogenic. I do too, especially when combined with cannabis. However, it won't be anywhere near as potent as an MDMA experience or what mescaline has to offer.
-------------------- "Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing (With all the accoutrements.)
|
the man
still masked



Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 6,681
Loc: C A N A D A
Last seen: 32 minutes, 8 seconds
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
#28099672 - 12/15/22 09:39 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
just shrooms aya mescaline cannabis
|
Soloist
Indigenous Human

Registered: 02/10/22
Posts: 922
Loc: Suburban hell
Last seen: 8 hours, 42 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: faithfulcrows]
#28100862 - 12/16/22 05:22 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
faithfulcrows said:
.. I am looking for a chemical which is empathogen first and anything else second. I feel like this surely must exist and is known about.
I think you might be hard pressed to find something like that. I’d think any empthogenic compound, to have a profound and noticeable effect would first have to create a shift in consciousness, because how else can it enhance it? Which we would by default interpret as some sort of high/ intoxication.
Are you looking for an inward enhancement, or outward?
Also, maybe if you are looking for something with out a “high” so to speak, maybe explore oneirogens?
-------------------- Embrace your darkness, For without it, Your light can never truly exist. 🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕 The Earth And I 89g fresh Gymnopilus subspectibilis Rapéh Crafters Trade and wish list 🍄👀MO🍄👀 It’s time to ghost this place✌🏻
|
Bardy



Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,184
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: Soloist]
#28101624 - 12/17/22 03:49 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
For me, other than mescaline which you already mentioned, I think low dose LSA can provide empathogenic effects similar to MDMA, and an upside is you need quite a large dose for a proper hallucinogenic experience (it can still be fairly psychedelic feeling in moderate doses). I’ve experimented with 0.5 to 1 seed of HBWR for a very nice, social, stimulating, empathogenic kind of experience. Anything equal to or more than two seeds starts getting psychedelic for me, but dosages may differ slightly between people and potency of the seeds.
The best natural empathogenics that I know of are all low dose psychedelics - LSA, mescaline, psilocybin.
One more possibility that comes to mind at the moment is kratom. The only problem is that it can be quite stoning and has real addiction potential, but leaving those things aside I feel like it can be very socially stimulating and mildly empathogenic.
Drugs that act on serotonin predominantly I think is the best bet? All of the above, including MDMA, do.
|
fantanyl
amateur-alchemist



Registered: 12/14/21
Posts: 58
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: Bardy]
#28101655 - 12/17/22 05:18 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
yeah +1 with the lsa seeds, but you'll have to really look a bit into it, there is a lot of important stuff to know about the preparation, otherwise you could be ending up in a challenging gut-cramp and/or puking orgy with delusional mindshifts ... a good preparation along with good quality seeds (and as fresh as possible) is the key here or the 'trip' will be very difficult.
Also it really depends on the person taking it, some people will get an awful experience with every preparation possible and others are getting a great experience by just eating raw seeds.
But there are definitely heaven like experiences with not-describeable-in-words euphoria and empathy possible, but achieving this is in most cases not trivial.
Also you could look into mesembrine containing plants, they are good candidates for this. also saffron has euphoria inducing substances to offer, very interesting ... ah and not yet tested, but i have read that black elderberry (i assume the flowers) also contain the proposed serotonin enhancing substance called safranal which is found in saffron ...
|
Bardy



Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,184
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: fantanyl]
#28101685 - 12/17/22 06:24 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I agree that LSA containing seeds can have their side effects, but I’d like to point out this is usually only in larger doses. The doses which I’m talking about, using Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, aren’t enough to bring about any side effects (apart from maybe slight muscle stiffness at the 1 whole seed mark) and can just be taken as raw seed chewed up.
Half a seed is all I need for a positive, mild, 6-8 hour experience, and has zero side effects.
Personally - maybe I’m just lucky - the nausea and muscle stiffness these seeds produce (HBWR) aren’t enough of a negative to outweigh the positive effects of the seeds. Also, the negative effects only tend to last the come up, then when you’re rolling they usually fade to an extent that they’re very easy to deal with. A small amount of alcohol or ibuprofen can really help for the muscles if it’s too much.
I’d also probably add that they really aren’t likely to make you puke unless you eat way too many of them.. I’ve had them with plenty of other people at moderate dosages on many occasions, enough to trip, and no one I’ve known has puked - some have had pretty bad muscle soreness and nausea during the come up, and one had a bad trip (4 seeds while on antidepressants - not a good idea).
I’m sure other peoples experiences may differ.
|
connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: Bardy]
#28108670 - 12/22/22 12:38 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
IMO you are never going to find something quite exactly like MDMA or "empathogens" other than the classic already discovered ones ( 6apb and 5mapb were good and feel like empathogens )
Mescaline psilocybin and LSD IMO can nearly touch the levels though, nothing can compare to the magic of MDMA and you cannot abuse it (3 month rule) or you'll lose it
--------------------
 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
|
Bardy



Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,184
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28109030 - 12/22/22 05:25 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I’ve never heard of 6apb or 5mapb.. are they analogues of MDMA?
|
connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: Bardy]
#28109113 - 12/22/22 06:51 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bardy said: I’ve never heard of 6apb or 5mapb.. are they analogues of MDMA?
Correct IIRC 6apb was first synthesized by David Nichols , looking for a less neurotoxic version of MDA
It is a very good drug IMO along with 5MAPB, they both are nearly indistinguishable from MDMA IMO , besides that they last longer
Same euphoric rush, forced chattiness , jaw clenching , colors brightening/CEV , empathogenic to the T like mdma and mda , I don't think a natural substance can recreate that other than the classic psychedelics mentioned
--------------------
 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
|
Bardy



Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,184
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: connectedcosmos]
#28109174 - 12/22/22 07:21 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
That’s cool. I wonder if they’re ever in circulation in Australia… haha
And yeah, agree about your last statement.. wish there was something natural that came close to mdma though. Maybe someone will discover something one day
|
Soloist
Indigenous Human

Registered: 02/10/22
Posts: 922
Loc: Suburban hell
Last seen: 8 hours, 42 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: Bardy]
#28109673 - 12/23/22 09:04 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bardy said: ... wish there was something natural that came close to mdma though…
From what I understand mescaline containing cactus is just like a natural mdma. And you could for sure find that in Australia.
-------------------- Embrace your darkness, For without it, Your light can never truly exist. 🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕 The Earth And I 89g fresh Gymnopilus subspectibilis Rapéh Crafters Trade and wish list 🍄👀MO🍄👀 It’s time to ghost this place✌🏻
Edited by Soloist (12/23/22 09:05 AM)
|
Bardy



Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,184
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: Soloist]
#28110007 - 12/23/22 02:16 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
It’s definitely similar in ways, but generally just in smaller doses I think. Which is great, I just mean it would be nice to find something a lot closer to MDMA, something that didn’t make you hallucinate at a common dosage.
|
ShiroiTora
LBM



Registered: 03/16/21
Posts: 616
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 2 days, 16 hours
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: Bardy]
#28116882 - 12/29/22 09:42 PM (1 year, 29 days ago) |
|
|
I've found a mini dose of mescaline(like 4-6g dried bridgesii skins, or ~150mg) creates a very MDMA like headspace, it's like your mind goes silent, and you almost can't have thoughts, but it isn't as overtly euphoric as MDMA somehow, it really just gives me time to enjoy my body/mind/environment. As a bonus even the minidoses last at least twice as long as MD, so imo it's even better. Only thing is the visuals, which are very subtle at minidoses, but you will see colors pop way more than on MDMA. Visuals have personally never bothered me, but just don't smoke weed on the cactus and you'll have minimal visuals on the minidose.
|
Bardy



Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,184
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: ShiroiTora]
#28117013 - 12/30/22 01:19 AM (1 year, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Fully agree, it just misses a bit of the ‘feel good’, chattiness that the amphetamine side of it brings I think.
Still very nice though
|
Mental Slavery
Eternally Confused


Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 828
Last seen: 2 hours, 30 minutes
|
Re: Natural Empathogens/Empathogenic Entheogens? [Re: faithfulcrows]
#28118155 - 12/30/22 10:16 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
|
|
Saffron maybe. Somewhat of a euphoric stimulant. I find all stimulants have some empathogenic qualities when not abused. It is expensive though, and relatively neurotoxic. I have only done cheap stuff.
|
|