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Kiwi89
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Registered: 06/16/20
Posts: 648
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Re: How have psilocybin mushrooms changed you? [Re: Shroomsandstuff]
#28098201 - 12/15/22 02:39 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Most of what you have listed above would change naturally over time for people, I would hope so anyway. As we experience life we tend to see the world differently. The more you live the more you change, seeing and experiencing the world outside your parents bubble opens the mind. The only people I imagine not growing and changing are people trapped in a cult.
Life shapes the nature of your psychedelic experiences.
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Kiwi89
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Re: How have psilocybin mushrooms changed you? [Re: Sub-Easy]
#28116918 - 12/29/22 10:12 PM (1 year, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sub-Easy said:
You assume that others are seeing the things you see in the same way as you do and that proves that they are reality, but in truth, other people don't see things at all the same as each other and that is the evidence that nothing is real.
But in truth, no one sees the world correctly as how it truly is because we are all looking at it through different filters that our minds create.
It is easy to prove that we see the world as it is. Also that we perceive the real world the same as others unless you have a mental or a physical disorder.
If the city you live in has red double decker buses with a 16 liter V8. We can prove that this object, the bus, is red is a bus and is propelled by a certain type of engine. We do not see or interact with the world because we have filters that may let us interpret reality in a form other than it is.
We can measure the wave length of a colour, and we know that the our cones pass that information to our brains. Unless you have a disorder, we can see that colour as our brain translates that wave length. You could attempt to argue over the brains interpretation of the wave length but we all know what red is unless you are visually impaired some how.
If we view the world differently because of filters then it would be impossible to describe a red bus on route 6. But we are able to do that reliably to others unless they have a mental disorder of some degree.
Our minds do not create filters but rather interprets input from the surrounding environment. That could be colour, pain, sound, these things are not unique to each individuals interpretation of reality.
On the other hand consuming a drug can alter the the interpretation of input.
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Kiwi89
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Re: How have psilocybin mushrooms changed you? [Re: Kiwi89]
#28117378 - 12/30/22 11:20 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sub-Easy said: I disagree.
If you asked twenty people to describe a red bus on route 6, then you would get twenty different descriptions.
Not just because of what parts they looked at, but also in how they perceived it, and what feeling went along with their perceptions.....
That was a lot of of side stepping away from what you originally posted, which is below. You are arguing about the shade of red to distract from your original argument about reality. You clearly state that nothing is real because we see them differently.
Quote:
Sub-Easy said: You assume that others are seeing the things you see in the same way as you do and that proves that they are reality, but in truth, other people don't see things at all the same as each other and that is the evidence that nothing is real.
My reply was about the nature of reality not the shade of the red or how you feel about the red bus.
You are a gish galloper.
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Kiwi89
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Re: How have psilocybin mushrooms changed you? [Re: Bardy] 1
#28117397 - 12/30/22 11:43 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bardy said:
Quote:
Kiwi89 said:
It is easy to prove that we see the world as it is. Also that we perceive the real world the same as others unless you have a mental or a physical disorder.
I think I agree with pretty much everything you said except this Kiwi89. It certainly isn’t easy to prove this, and currently no one has proven this, in fact I think it would be more accurate to suggest science has proven the opposite, that we don’t see the world as it truly is. Instead, we do see the world through interpretation machines that have evolved to interpret certain stimuli in certain ways. Ways in which make it easier for us to survive on the African savanna.
In my previous example about our perception of red bus on route 6. We can measure a light wave that we call red. We know that we can produce a paint that will be red. So if we paint that bus red if our cones in our eyes are functioning correctly we will see red. I can not recall a scientific experiment that proves that our interpretation of red is incorrect.
Our interpretation of the world may be limited by our data receptors, I do not believe that science has proven that that the data is not real or is another form.
Quote:
Bardy said: I think it’s also very plausible that we all have completely different conscious experiences of the same stimuli, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
If we were to take ten people and use a needle to pierce the skin on their right index finger, unless they have some nerve damage I am sure that all would agree that it produces a painful experience. Sure the degree of pain may be evaluated differently.
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Kiwi89
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Re: How have psilocybin mushrooms changed you? [Re: doolhoofd] 1
#28117878 - 12/30/22 06:52 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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doolhoofd said: Here's a great TED-Talk that asks the question: "Do we see reality as it is?" (Spoiler alert: the above statement by Bardy turns out to be correct.)
There are a couple talks that I have seen like this about. It is important to note that he is saying, we thought the earth was flat until we could prove that it was not. He is putting forward a theory of his but providing no proof. He does not know what this underlying structure of reality is but he personally believes that it is there.
His example of the Jewel beetle used as an example of natural selection not favoring seeing reality. This is a example of Supernormal stimulus. This is not an example of evolution favoring fitness but rather an example of a new stimulus eliciting a stronger response.
His argument is not that the train or red tomato do not exist but that the underlying structure may be different than we actually see.
This is similar to saying the the colour red is not actual red but photons scattered by the matter light interacts with. Therefore red is really different than we are able to observe. This does not alter the fact that we see it as red, it is measurable. So is the train squashing you, it does not matter that it may be a representation of a system we can not observe because our sensors are not attuned for that fine data point, it is still a train.
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