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 Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion
Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 4,209
Loc: Try 'n' Error Boot Camp
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 Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK   10
#28092415 - 12/10/22 07:36 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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How to run unmodified Lids with a Filter.
So here is another little and very simple thing that can make the life of us cultivators easier. In my time I have tried all sorts of lid setup and since I like things simple I thought that unmodified lids are great but I always had an uneasy feel about them and tbh they do require a bit of careful handling to work, can't be kept in a drafty area and I had ants getting into a jar once. This is the reason why I do prefer polyfill lids, I actually love them cause they are cheap, easy to do and last forever the only drawback is once you put a hole in the lids they are not good to use for anything else which I find annoying at times.
With the lid setup as described below you can leave the lid as is but can still get the advantages of a filtered gas exchange:
Buy some cheap synthetic felt, fabric stabilizer or something comparable, it just has to withstand the heat during sterilization. This stuff is very cheap if you buy it off the roll. Cut out a circle that fits snugly into the inside of the lid and you are done. All that is left to do is load the jar and put the lid on hand tight.
 
The felt will get jammed and compressed between the lid and the rim of the jar which will allow for GE but will keep contamination out when shaking. Below you can see that a jar with this lid does colonize as fast as a jar with ployfill. I used a pan clone for this comparison and the jars were shaken twice. (don't mind the PF-Tek substrate in the first photo, this is something I do to make sure my LC is OK and recovering fast)
  
Here a photo of the inside of the lid after taking it off the colonized jar.
A quick rinse makes it as good as new. You can clearly see the compressed ring where the felt was jammed between lid and jar rim.
I only ran about 12 jars like this so far cause I still have a shitload of polyfill lids which I will use till they are falling apart and since this can take a few years I post this now although I haven't tested this extensively but colonization speed is the same as with my super tightly stuffed polyfill lids which is prove enough for me that ample GE is given. I was a bit skeptical with having the felt on the inside but I have seen people use filter discs underneath the hole on the inside of lids and also read on some vendor pages to use filter discs that way and since the jars I ran so far colonized well I don't see a problem with this.
I will run a few more of these here and there and will post updates but would love to hear other peoples experience in case they feeling like testing this out.
Edited by Baba Yaga (02/06/23 06:46 PM)
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 Smellyhobbit
Actual Retard
 
Registered: 04/01/22
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 Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28092423 - 12/10/22 07:44 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Excellent writeup.
I am 100% going to ask about the PF substrate though. Did you add that on top or was it put in before the PC cycle? I am extremely interested in that.
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Rusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28092429 - 12/10/22 07:47 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Simple yet brilliant.
I'll just quote Einstein here: โSimplicity is the most difficult thing to secure in this world; it is the last limit of experience and the last effort of genius.โ
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hazyhorse
scoobin
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Rusty2096]
#28092484 - 12/10/22 08:23 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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hell yeah yaga! nice little write up. iโll have to look into this for my unmodified lids.
slightly unrelated question, but when it comes to polyfill lids, do you think they can be stuffed too tightly? i tried polyfill lids in the past but all the jars colonized veeerry slowly. the unmodified lids of grain inoculated with the same agar plates colonized way faster. was just curious as iโve been wanting to try out polyfill again
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Baba Yaga
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Registered: 09/13/20
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: hazyhorse] 1
#28093389 - 12/11/22 01:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks guys, just something that was on my mind for a while and I haven't seen anyone mentioning this on here yet.
Quote:
Smellyhobbit said:
Excellent writeup.
I am 100% going to ask about the PF substrate though. Did you add that on top or was it put in before the PC cycle? I am extremely interested in that.
Link is in my signature.
Quote:
hazyhorse said:
hell yeah yaga! nice little write up. iโll have to look into this for my unmodified lids.
slightly unrelated question, but when it comes to polyfill lids, do you think they can be stuffed too tightly? i tried polyfill lids in the past but all the jars colonized veeerry slowly. the unmodified lids of grain inoculated with the same agar plates colonized way faster. was just curious as iโve been wanting to try out polyfill again
I had problems with slow colonization as well and thought about this too cause I stuffed the polyfill so tight that it was hard as a rock. I think that it could be the case. Since I use plastic lids my jars are colonizing better which might be because I can't stuff the holes quite as tight when using plastic lids.
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fungusul
Fungus Kingdom
Registered: 07/16/20
Posts: 1,065
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: hazyhorse]
#28093397 - 12/11/22 01:48 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Nice write-up!
I use Dawgy style lids which are similar. It's just an synthetic filter disk(SFD) between lid and band. Lid prevents grains touching the filter during shaking.
I'm using heavy synthetic felt 4mm+ as SFD in combination with 2 layers of 3m micropore tape on 4 holes(1/8") without any problems.
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Rusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga
Registered: 08/23/22
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: fungusul]
#28093535 - 12/11/22 03:39 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
fungusul said:
Nice write-up!
I use Dawgy style lids which are similar. It's just an synthetic filter disk(SFD) between lid and band. Lid prevents grains touching the filter during shaking.
I'm using heavy synthetic felt 4mm+ as SFD in combination with 2 layers of 3m micropore tape on 4 holes(1/8") without any problems.
Not similar IMO if you consider the point of this tek is to not drill holes in the lids 
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Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!.
We don't own things - things own us.
Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)
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JHOVA
Post whore
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: fungusul]
#28093572 - 12/11/22 04:03 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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do you have your lids on tight during the pc cycle?
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Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion
Registered: 09/13/20
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: JHOVA] 1
#28093728 - 12/11/22 06:09 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, hand tight.
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fungusul
Fungus Kingdom
Registered: 07/16/20
Posts: 1,065
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Rusty2096] 1
#28094452 - 12/12/22 11:29 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rusty2096 said:
Quote:
fungusul said:
Nice write-up!
I use Dawgy style lids which are similar. It's just an synthetic filter disk(SFD) between lid and band. Lid prevents grains touching the filter during shaking.
I'm using heavy synthetic felt 4mm+ as SFD in combination with 2 layers of 3m micropore tape on 4 holes(1/8") without any problems.
Not similar IMO if you consider the point of this tek is to not drill holes in the lids
Yes, your are right, but it could give some ideas on reusing existing lids. If you don't drill holes in the lid and you add lid on top of the SFD, then you have the same thing. In this configuration, I'm not sure if FAE will be enough.
Maybe plastic lids are helping by not compressing felt like metalic lids. I'll try this next time since I already have discs and plastic lids.
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JHOVA
Post whore
Registered: 02/17/17
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: fungusul]
#28094511 - 12/12/22 12:30 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Yaga what lids are those? They look nicer than the ball ones. I don't care for the ball lids since they warp a lot.
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Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion
Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 4,209
Loc: Try 'n' Error Boot Camp
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: JHOVA]
#28094784 - 12/12/22 04:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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The brand name on the inside says "Labserve LS92" and they were roughly $0.70 US a pop. The last time I wanted to buy some there weren't any in stock and the manager told me that the manufacturer doesn't make them anymore but that might be BS. I have seen similar or same looking lids for sale on the net. The lids are nothing special really. I always had the impression that ball lids are looking sturdier, never had the chance to compare in person though.
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Gleyck
Registered: 08/17/22
Posts: 1,262
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28175078 - 02/06/23 04:25 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Minimal is always the way to go!
Giving it a try 
This is 3mm, seems thicker than yours...
QQ: do you still keep the jars 1/4 unturned?
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Nonagon
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Gleyck] 1
#28175095 - 02/06/23 04:40 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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This is cool, Iโm currently using pieces of poly felt siliconed over a 1/8โ hole, but have like a square yard of the stuff lying around waiting to become discs.
Do you foil your lids? Iโd consider sealing up my lid holes and having a go at this if it would save me foiling lids ever again.
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Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion
Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 4,209
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Nonagon] 2
#28175137 - 02/06/23 05:24 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gleyck said:
Minimal is always the way to go!
Giving it a try
This is 3mm, seems thicker than yours...
QQ: do you still keep the jars 1/4 unturned?
Thanks for giving this a try.
My felt is about 3mm as well but one side is firm and the other side is soft and does probably compress easier than what you have there. I tighten the lids hand tight so the lid stays on securely. There should be enough gas exchange even when you crank down the lid hard especially with a thicker material like you got there. Put on the lid tight when loading the PC and after inoculation. The filter material jammed between the lid and rim will keep contaminants out when shaking or placing the jars in drafty areas. This will also keep gnats out and depending on what filter material is used it might even be able to keep mites out but that is just a theory.
If you compress your 3mm material down to a hypothetical 1.5mm then the surface that is available for gas exchange is 1.5mm x ~260mm (thickness of material by roughly the circumference of a wide mouth jar rim). This will give you a surface area of about 360mm2.
A 1/4" hole has a surface area of 28mm2 so this is basically 10 time the surface for gas exchange. I stuff the 1/4" holes in my lids very tight with polyfill and the jars are colonizing just fine so having the filter on the inside alone should allow for more than enough GE.
Yesterday I inoculated 3 pan jars using these lids.
Quote:
Nonagon said:
This is cool, Iโm currently using pieces of poly felt siliconed over a 1/8โ hole, but have like a square yard of the stuff lying around waiting to become discs.
Do you foil your lids? Iโd consider sealing up my lid holes and having a go at this if it would save me foiling lids ever again.
There is no need to put foil on these.
Edited by Baba Yaga (02/06/23 07:58 PM)
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Steevil
Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 103
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Baba Yaga] 3
#28190966 - 02/17/23 03:33 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Trying this out with some new lids 
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Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion
Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 4,209
Loc: Try 'n' Error Boot Camp
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Steevil]
#28190976 - 02/17/23 04:04 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Yay, that looks like a party about to happen.
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Gleyck
Registered: 08/17/22
Posts: 1,262
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Steevil] 2
#28191068 - 02/17/23 06:48 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Steevil said:
Trying this out with some new lids
are you raising your mushrooms gay?
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JW123
Nooby Nooby Noob
Registered: 01/17/22
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Gleyck] 2
#28207047 - 02/27/23 04:52 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Giving this a go.
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myc_ousin_vinny
Keeping_It_Real
Registered: 04/29/20
Posts: 1,416
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Re: Filtered Unmodified Lid TEK [Re: Gleyck] 2
#28207107 - 02/27/23 05:49 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Gleyck said:
Quote:
Steevil said:
Trying this out with some new lids
are you raising your mushrooms gay?
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