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OfflineKickleM
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AI going mainstream
    #28090551 - 12/09/22 04:07 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

So this is uncharted water. Mostly AI has been a research tool with some isolated real world applications dotted in here and there. Google has been the largest in terms of delivering AI into the hands of the individual -- but it has always been a very well defined AI system -- like image rendering, call screening, or photo grouping. The usage was rigidly defined by Google and never user defined.

Now we are entering a new period where AIs are becoming open sourced and quickly integrated into creative platforms. Where individual user's are now determining how to use these tools. And they are incredibly simple to use so the user base is and will continue to grow rapidly.

AI art is already a big talking point in the art community. Someone can take a couple dozen pictures from any artist and train an AI model to reproduce that style. Some people are more creative and train models on oddities of their own flavor. Like this guy, who trained the AI to reproduce objects taped to walls. Go figure.


But you have MANY more training the AI on publically available images like pornography, anime, and video games. Here's an example of the output from a model trained on the Simpsons for example:




And now we've got AI specializing in text composition. People are using this in all sorts of clever ways already too. One guy put it to work writing some code for dealing with data in excel. What's wild is that this AI is able to remove the coding barrier, while usability of the AI is at a low enough barrier for entry that the same non-technical individual is capable of understanding and implementing it.

There have long been people using these text generative AIs to write blog posts and such. But now they are being integrated into much more capable platforms. Excel being one simple example, but platforms like Facebook's SMS client WhatsApp are being used as well. One gentleman showcased creating a chat bot to ask questions to, similar to asking Alexa, Google, or Siri -- but it's just for himself. Creating a tool with similar capabilities to what a HUGE tech company invested tons of time, energy, and money to create, but now as an individual. Amazing on one hand. Terrifying on another.

AI is democratizing technological creation. But is that a good thing? I'm not a big fan of capitalism, but at least in order for a technology to be profitable, it has to pass a societal smell test. If a person can just utilize AI to create incredibly powerful technology without worry for recouping any profit, what then is the check?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #28090569 - 12/09/22 04:19 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I've wondered about this for a long time. When some average person is able to utilize technology to create any audio or video or literary facsimile conceivable, what do we do? How will we authenticate media?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #28090577 - 12/09/22 04:25 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Right. Seeing is no longer believing. Hearing is no longer believing. I didn't touch on sound reproduction but voice cloning is pretty simple too.

To be clear, none of those objects taped to walls are real. And this was just some random bored dude. Imagine what someone invested in or paid for might accomplish rather quickly.

I recently listened to a cybersecurity expert I like out of Canada describe the way companies are being phished now and days. A high ranking member of the company will call and make a request to access company data, or to move funds towards a "new program", or to even hire a new individual for a new position.

His suggestion? If you suspect that this voice isn't real in any way shape or form, throw curve ball questions in. Talk about your dog and see how they respond. Ask how the weather is where they are. Start taking the conversation away from business and towards mundane things to see how well it keeps up. Or just hang up and try calling the person who is supposedly calling you.

Wild to think that this is even on the radar though. 

I'm going back to the ole handshake :yesnod:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisiblestubb
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle]
    #28090769 - 12/09/22 06:39 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
So this is uncharted water. Mostly AI has been a research tool with some isolated real world applications dotted in here and there.




Nonsense.  My dad was a consultant that helped implement the AI that's been routing your mail for the last 40 years.


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:mushroomgrow:
🆃🄴🅰🄼  🅲🄻🅸🄽🅶🅆🆁🄰🅿

You wake up. The room is spinning very gently round your head. Or at least it would be if you could see it which you can't.
It is pitch black.

> TURN ON LIGHT


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle]
    #28090771 - 12/09/22 06:39 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

remember when every dark corner or hole was a camera, and they knew everything about you and what you were going to do next?

this sounds a bit like that.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: stubb]
    #28090929 - 12/09/22 08:26 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

stubb said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
So this is uncharted water. Mostly AI has been a research tool with some isolated real world applications dotted in here and there.




Nonsense.  My dad was a consultant that helped implement the AI that's been routing your mail for the last 40 years.




I'm not following how this makes the quoted part nonsense. But I do think that's pretty cool. Did you follow in those steps at all?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28090945 - 12/09/22 08:33 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
remember when every dark corner or hole was a camera, and they knew everything about you and what you were going to do next?

this sounds a bit like that.




It could be. I see the things everyday people make and there are plenty of times I can't tell they aren't photographs or something real. It is enough to spook me. In most areas, amateur stuff definitely looks like it needs work. And while there are degrees of ability with these tools, the most dramatic differences I see are in usage as opposed to the ability to produce convincing results. That's the topic. How is usage tied to any limits here?

Talk me off the ledge homey


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle]
    #28091175 - 12/09/22 11:14 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Artificial is a racist term.


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Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Nichrome]
    #28091329 - 12/10/22 02:17 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nichrome said:
Artificial is a racist term.



this position is unavoidable, however,
@ Kickle, the ledge you need talking back from is virtual.

Naturally we do not want to be duped, and lied to, and the fear is about that.

much more significant is when the shooting starts, then what happens?

things begin happening faster than we can perceive, how many tables can you turn over and hide behind?


--------------------
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OfflineNichrome
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28091651 - 12/10/22 10:44 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Books and fleece blankets are better than tables. Win win for the readers of the world.


--------------------
Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28091675 - 12/10/22 11:05 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Nichrome said:
Artificial is a racist term.



this position is unavoidable, however,
@ Kickle, the ledge you need talking back from is virtual.

Naturally we do not want to be duped, and lied to, and the fear is about that.

much more significant is when the shooting starts, then what happens?

things begin happening faster than we can perceive, how many tables can you turn over and hide behind?




Violence is the worst outcome I can think of to apply. The battle I wage is with my own discernment and discussing it in a small community of what I consider bright minded individuals.

Generative AI makes me question my own discernment when it comes to sifting through a flood of information. No biggie, I can opt out and often have. I have opted out of the majority of social media for a similar reason. It hasn't hurt me socially or financially to do so and I don't foresee this having that impact either.

And I don't assume the social outcome. I do see many avenues for disaster of course. This is scary. The potential for abuse is high, the general lack of discernment is high, and frankly many policy leaders are far past their time of trying to grok these types of movements. Which leads me to the question I keep asking: what, if anything, is the check on this?

The ledge I see before me is one where there is no legitimate check on usage as generative AI rises in power and influence. No guardrails here. And it looks like a long way to the bottom.

AI is used by people. This is not a virtual ledge.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle]
    #28091683 - 12/10/22 11:14 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

so, like guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns that were designed to kill people.
and AI doesn't lie to people, people lie to people using AI that was designed to support what ever story you want to tell.

I think guns, which were designed to kill people are worse than AI which was designed to support whatever story people want to tell.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28091692 - 12/10/22 11:18 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I agree guns and weapons of war suck and have very few qualities of redemption. Not sure how you've managed to turn a discussion about AI into something about guns though. I guess that's your ledge?

I'm happy to report to you that the vast majority of the world does not own a gun and gun ownership is therefore not the main stream :thumbup:

A single messaging app that generative AI is being used on as I referenced in my OP is over 2billion users however.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/260819/number-of-monthly-active-whatsapp-users/


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle]
    #28091748 - 12/10/22 12:10 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

so I use whatsapp, it hasn't lied to me yet, it is our family's go to messaging and international baby picture sharing app.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28091775 - 12/10/22 12:32 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Yeah it's an illustration of the reach. pertaining to the topic and question I've posed repeatedly.

If you were to ask me what the limits on gun use are, thankfully I could pretty quickly give you a fairly lengthy list in answer. It's strange to me that you don't see why this question is being asked, or find it troublesome that there doesn't seem to be an answer.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle]
    #28091838 - 12/10/22 01:12 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

with guns, the vulnerability is that we bleed (often to death) when penetrated by injurious projectiles fired from those guns,
with computer aided liars, the vulnerability is that we will be even more duped and stupid than ever;
however,
we already do know that AI can lie like a president, so we are less inclined to totally trust it, and we do not need to wear lie-proof armour.
Our minds do not bleed when lied to, and we are already accustomed to believing in the absolute stupidest stuff:
earth is flat,
earth is the centre of the universe
god created everything
heaven awaits
after Armageddon everyone goes up!
the messiah is coming...

I think that AI could be quite assistive in disarming the horde. In that way I kinda like it.
and if it is actually intelligent and not just defensive and stupid like people, then it will definitely be a good thing.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28091861 - 12/10/22 01:24 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Well it's inevitable that not everyone, and likely not even a majority, thinks that trust in information is an important thing to try and establish I suppose.

I go along with that view to the degree that I can distinguish bullshit on the face. So I get it. I just happen to think this is going to cross that line in a scary way because it already has for me.

I get that you think somehow it'll turn out for the best because guns are bad and our minds aren't worth protecting. Which is a horrible take imo


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle]
    #28091876 - 12/10/22 01:33 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

our minds do best starting from zero, we reboot daily.
our bodies do not get a second chance usually


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle]
    #28091953 - 12/10/22 02:20 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)



--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28092775 - 12/11/22 01:58 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

It should be called created intelligence.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: DividedQuantum] * 3
    #28092811 - 12/11/22 02:35 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
How will we authenticate media?



You can train an AI model on AI generated content and genuine content and train it to recognize content that is AI generated to authenticate things.

Then you feed that data into a new AI model as a negative prompt to make it more likely to produce content that is impossible to authenticate because it has omitted all the common markers that made it appear inauthentic, thus creating an arms race. :lookoverthere:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: PatrickKn]
    #28094979 - 12/12/22 06:39 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)



--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineLion
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #28412963 - 07/29/23 02:54 PM (5 months, 27 days ago)

I'm reviving this thread because AI has gone even more mainstream than when Kickle created it, and the implications are interesting.

Beyond what's been discussed here - the contribution of these technologies to a further loss of our ability to discern what's real or ontologically prior, and the possible destabilizing effects of AI on e.g., diplomacy and military escalation - there are really interesting questions of economics and philosophy (how best to live).

Since the turn of this millennium people have been preoccupied with the automation and loss of working class jobs, which is something that has observably happened, but AI at its present pace of gaining complexity and nuance seems likely to replace the professional managerial and white collar classes more quickly than the professions we all learned during the pandemic are truly essential - truck drivers, cargo ship crews, grocery store workers, nurses, oil rig workers, farmers, etc.

Lawyers for example seem a prime group to be winnowed down in number and utility by AI, but lawyers are also extremely powerful and well versed in protecting their interests as a class. This creates an interesting economic, political, and technological tension whose results may be hard to parse for years.

It will also take a long time to understand the effects of AI on global 'knowledge economy' hiring practices - will the number of people working as consultants, programmers, analysts, editors, translators, paralegals, secretaries, marketing specialists, etc., drastically diminish? It seems almost certain - but far before the scope of that diminishing is discernible, what may happen is teams of such people become much better and more efficient at their jobs by wielding the many new applications for AI that will arise. (Even if AI does not become much better, which it probably will, new applications for what already exists will be developed for decades to come.) In that case, many of these industries may simply see a slow down and freeze in new hires at the same time as they gain productivity.

Anecdotally, it seems a lot of people are struggling with a deep, if not yet fully consciously explored, dilemma of meaning and purpose, in addition to the natural economic and political anxieties of these times. It was there already but things like chatgpt have made it harder to avoid. Graphic designers, writers, and musicians who are following this developments are disheartened, because AI seems to diminish not only their economic prospects but the very significance of their creative production. I feel this acutely at times too, although another part of me feels reaffirmed in some kind of naive, romantic commitment to human produced storytelling, songs, and so on.

It is a difficult time to be a human.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Lion] * 1
    #28412972 - 07/29/23 03:03 PM (5 months, 27 days ago)

There may still be plenty of lawyers but I suppose there will be far fewer paralegals.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineLion
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Rahz]
    #28412985 - 07/29/23 03:13 PM (5 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
There may still be plenty of lawyers but I suppose there will be far fewer paralegals.


I think this is probably a good analogy for the core dynamic of what will happen. At last in the near term (3-10 years).


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: Lion] * 1
    #28413048 - 07/29/23 04:33 PM (5 months, 27 days ago)

obviously we need more wars to reduce the total population, maybe Putin is onto something.


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OfflineLion
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Re: AI going mainstream [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28413083 - 07/29/23 05:47 PM (5 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
obviously we need more wars to reduce the total population, maybe Putin is onto something.


Maybe things will be resolved by aliens and/or superconductors


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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