|
 ABBAZABA
Stranger
Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2
Loc: arizona
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
|
 fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! 
#2808124 - 06/19/04 02:29 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
copied and pasted from votenader.org, here's Nader's stance on the drug war:
The drug war has failed. We spend nearly $50 billion annually on the drug war and problems related to drug abuse continue to worsen. We need to acknowledge that drug abuse is a health problem with social and economic consequences. Therefore, the solutions are public health, social services and economic development and tender supportive time with addicts in our depersonalized society. Law enforcement should be at the edges of drug control not at the center. It is time to bring some illegal drugs within the law by regulating, taxing and controlling them. Ending the drug war will dramatically reduce street crime, violence and homicides related to underground drug dealing.
albeit he has absolutely NO chance of winning the election, i'll at least be able to vote for him with a clear conscience.
--------------------
intravenously polite it was the walkie-talkies
that had knocked the pins down
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
 Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: ABBAZABA]
#2808403 - 06/19/04 07:21 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Voting for a candidate based on one issue is, no offense, pathetic. Nader is further to the left than even Kerry...he might end the war on drugs but I wonder if you'd have enough of a paycheck left to purchase them.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
 silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: ABBAZABA]
#2808550 - 06/19/04 10:16 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Nader (a)has no chance of getting elected, (b)is an arrogant douche, (c)is too socialist for my taste, and (d)will only hurt our chances of getting Bush out of office.
--------------------
 
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
|
Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: silversoul7]
#2808611 - 06/19/04 10:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
e) he's a millionaire hypocrite who invests in the same corporations that he rails against.
|
Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,213
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 4 hours, 29 minutes
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2808729 - 06/19/04 12:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Everyone has an issue that they feel is very important. I have a feeling that the issues that you vote for or against have less impact on society than the drug war(which effects EVERYONE in the world).
--------------------
--------------------------------
Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Learyfan]
#2808738 - 06/19/04 12:27 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Learyfan said:
Everyone has an issue that they feel is very important. I have a feeling that the issues that you vote for or against have less impact on society than the drug war(which effects EVERYONE in the world).
That feeling would be quite wrong. I vote for individual liberty and the restoration of a constitutional america. Seeing as this would include the abolition of the drug war if such ideals came to fruition, I would have to say they have a much larger impact on society.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,213
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 4 hours, 29 minutes
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2809010 - 06/19/04 03:14 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I vote for individual liberty and the restoration of a constitutional america. Seeing as this would include the abolition of the drug war if such ideals came to fruition, I would have to say they have a much larger impact on society.
The desire to end the drug war is a sign of a politician who wants to give us individual liberty and restore a constiutional America.
--------------------
--------------------------------
Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Learyfan]
#2809495 - 06/19/04 07:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Uh, that's exactly what I said. My point is the drug war is a significant, but not enormous, piece of the larger puzzle. Another point was while Nader would do his best to end the war on drugs, just about all of his other policies are repugnant socialist garbage.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
Redo
CTA
Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2809575 - 06/19/04 07:51 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I still think you should all vote Nader so Bush wins.
|
Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,213
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 4 hours, 29 minutes
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2809596 - 06/19/04 07:59 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I think the drug war is an enormous issue. The mis-use of tax dollars, the wasted lives, the mis-use of police, broken families, over crowding of prisons, etc. etc. etc.. It starts here and influences every other country on earth.
Back to Nader. You know what really scares me?
Liberals are never going to want to elect a Republican. For 2004 they're all saying that everyone needs to vote for Kerry this time. Well when do we get to vote third party again? Bush is bad, but the next Republican won't be a whole lot better.
--------------------
--------------------------------
Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
|
silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Learyfan]
#2809618 - 06/19/04 08:07 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Learyfan said:
Bush is bad, but the next Republican won't be a whole lot better.
You don't know that. Not all Republicans are that bad. Hell, if John McCain ran in 2008, I'd vote for him.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Redo]
#2809643 - 06/19/04 08:21 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I still think you should all vote Nader so Bush wins.
Or I could just vote for whom I feel would best serve my country as President. Namely, Michael Badnarik the Libertarian candidate.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Learyfan]
#2809663 - 06/19/04 08:27 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I think the drug war is an enormous issue. The mis-use of tax dollars, the wasted lives, the mis-use of police, broken families, over crowding of prisons, etc. etc. etc.. It starts here and influences every other country on earth.
I agree with that, I just disagree with voting for a candidate who would do good for this country with regard to one issue and completely decimate this country and it's constitution on just about all other issues. No point in arguing this further, we both have our opinions.
Quote:
Back to Nader. You know what really scares me?
Liberals are never going to want to elect a Republican. For 2004 they're all saying that everyone needs to vote for Kerry this time. Well when do we get to vote third party again? Bush is bad, but the next Republican won't be a whole lot better.
Yeah, there's absolutely zero evidence to believe they won't be doing the "JUST VOTE DEMOCRAT THIS TIME...NEXT TIME IT WON'T BE CLOSE AND YOU CAN VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT, WE HAVE TO GET THIS ASSHOLE _random_republican_candidate_01 OUT OF OFFICE" thing every election cycle from here on out. Vote for who you think would serve this country best whether it's Ralph Nader, Al Sharpton, or Howard Stern(write-in votes are crucial). The founding fathers would have looked in shame at the kind of logic being used to convince people to vote a certain way.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Learyfan]
#2809687 - 06/19/04 08:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Liberals are never going to want to elect a Republican. For 2004 they're all saying that everyone needs to vote for Kerry this time. Well when do we get to vote third party again? Bush is bad, but the next Republican won't be a whole lot better.
Strategy, man. 3rd party candidates will never have ability to be elected US president without massive grassroots movement and support in the Congress. This why I think 3rd presidential campaigns are waste of time, money, energy, and resource - all of these thing have been use elsewhere (namely, state local and congressional campaigns). Start from the bottom-up, not top-down - this is the path toward sustainable change.
ever play baseball? the key to winning is not going up to the plate and swinging for a homerun everytime - the key is getting players on base and getting a running game going.
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Vvellum]
#2809702 - 06/19/04 08:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Strategy, man. 3rd party candidates will never have ability to be elected US president without massive grassroots movement and support in the Congress. This why I think 3rd presidential campaigns are waste of time, money, energy, and resource - all of these thing have been use elsewhere (namely, state local and congressional campaigns). Start from the bottom-up, not top-down.
ever play baseball? the key to winning is not going up to the plate and trying to hit a homerun everytime - the key is getting players on base and getting a running game going.
I thought the same exact thing when I started following the Libertarian party. It seemed like complete idiocy to delegate an enormous percentage of money to a candidate that has zero chance of winning. What I came to realize however, was that there is no better way to spread a message than via a Presidential candidate. If not for the LP running a candidate for the Presidency, CSPAN would have never spent just about an entire WEEKEND covering an obscure third-party convention. They would have never had someone from the Libertarian Party on Washington Journal. O'Reilly would not have a random Libertarian senate candidate on his show next week...he is however, having the Presidential Candidate on the show.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2809754 - 06/19/04 08:55 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
but what exactly does a small percentage of CSPAN airtime really amount to? Personally, I think it simply amounts to advertising; "getting the message out" is good but that's all it really is. There is no way that a 3rd party could begin to drown out the words, news coverage, politics, and message of the Democrats or Republicans enough to actually create change.
I think a greater way to attract voters/support is with real action. Imagine if a handful of 3rd party candidate were to win seats in the Senate and totally rock the shit out of Washington. Now that would certainly light-the-fuse, so to speak, and people would really begin to give these candidates their votes and financial support. And I honestly believe that only a few key positions in Congress is all that is required to really ignite 3rd party support.
|
Redo
CTA
Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2809797 - 06/19/04 09:15 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ancalagon said:
Quote:
I still think you should all vote Nader so Bush wins.
Or I could just vote for whom I feel would best serve my country as President. Namely, Michael Badnarik the Libertarian candidate.
Yes, the day a third party is actually in solid competition I may vote for whom I feel the most comfortable about, until then I will vote for the better of the two candidates.
|
Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: ABBAZABA]
#2809989 - 06/19/04 10:41 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Nader's drug policy sure makes sense! But I can't vote for a candidate on one single issue, I'm afraid. I'm going with Kerry this November.
|
Lightningfractal
Nutcase
Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: ABBAZABA]
#2810145 - 06/19/04 11:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
A vote for nader is unfortunately, a vote for Bush.
--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
|
blu3
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: silversoul7]
#2812017 - 06/20/04 08:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
silversoul7 said:
Nader (a)has no chance of getting elected, (b)is an arrogant douche, (c)is too socialist for my taste, and (d)will only hurt our chances of getting Bush out of office.
SilverSoul is (A) a moron (B) talking out of his ass and (C) one of the problems of this country.
|
silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2812024 - 06/20/04 08:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blu3 said:
Quote:
silversoul7 said:
Nader (a)has no chance of getting elected, (b)is an arrogant douche, (c)is too socialist for my taste, and (d)will only hurt our chances of getting Bush out of office.
SilverSoul is (A) a moron (B) talking out of his ass and (C) one of the problems of this country.
blu3 (a)is apparently not aware of the "no flaming" rule, (b)does not know the first thing about me, and (c)has apparently decided not to engage in civilized debate, but rather stoop to the lowest common denominator and call me names.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
Edited by silversoul7 (06/20/04 08:56 PM)
|
Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2812113 - 06/20/04 09:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Nice to see a new poster in this forum, especially one of the female persuasion.
However, before making your next post, you'd do well to read the sticky post at the top of the first page regarding the no flaming policy in this forum. People have been given bans for flaming in this forum. Some of the more persistent flamers have been perma-banned.
If you wish to play by the rules, we'd be delighted to see some input from you. Hope you stick around.
pinky
--------------------
|
Lightningfractal
Nutcase
Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2815225 - 06/21/04 08:05 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
In other words, this ain't OTD.
--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
|
blu3
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: silversoul7]
#2816001 - 06/22/04 12:58 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
look, if you did your research then you'd know that voting for nader isn't a vote for bush and the fact nadar ran last year wasn't the reason bush won..... remember BUSH DIDN'T WIN he stole the presidency. I recommend you go to his site and read about his policies and what he hopes to change. *gasp* its a guy who wants to be president and actually wants to give us, the people, what we want? In 2000 it was a strange concept for me as well. I was like you, I thought everyone who supported the green party must be dense.
I'm sorry I snapped at you I just get sick of people, even smart clearly intelligent people automatically writing off Nader because a serious 3rd party candidate is something new. I'm not includeing Perot(sp) he was laughable and I believe is part of the negative stigma of the 3rd party. I believe that if you had all, or even some of the facts you'd say different.
I'd recommend going to your library And read Michael Moore's book Stupid White Men, if you don't have time to read the whole thing make sure to look at Pg. 226-227 That will give you a list of various democrats that, might as well be republicans since they vote with the republicans over 50% of the time. I mean, I thought when I went with the democratic canidate it was to oppose the republican side.
and last read the Epilogue. The whole thing.
It'll explain to you how to vote green smartly so that we can make sure bush does not win again and nadar can get the 5% need to get funding. I only recommend Michael Moore because I find his style of writing to be quite easy and entertaining to read. Even the person least interested in politics can find it enjoyable.
Again, sorry I snapped I'm just so use to political debates going nowhere,
|
luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2816135 - 06/22/04 03:26 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
remember BUSH DIDN'T WIN
Actually, he did.
--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
|
silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2816162 - 06/22/04 03:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You assume I haven't done any research. I assume by this you mean I haven't bought into what Nader claims. Fact is that his votes do come mostly from voters who would otherwise vote for Kerry. But that's not even why I don't like him. It's the fact that he so arrogantly groups Kerry and Bush together, when he knows damn well that it's not true. That and the fact that, as I said, he's too socialist for my taste. As for Michael Moore, I enjoy a good fiction book as well as the next person, but I'm not going to make my vote based on it. Also, if you like Michael Moore, you might be interested to know that although he supported Nader in 2000, he believes the risks are too high this year to risk it. This is one issue on which I agree with him.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
|
blu3
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: silversoul7]
#2816566 - 06/22/04 08:31 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
hah.. the books not fiction. I thought that at first but then looked up all the facts he stated. YEs he words them a little funny to make them sound worse then it is but they are still facts.
Well, you vote for who you feel you should vote for. My main point was really that there are ways to vote for Nadar without helping bush win. If you were to read the epilouge of the book it goes through those ways. Plus its really funny and worth the read, I think.
I don't really want to debate Nadar and why I feel you should vote for him, because I've been there with other people and I know its not going to do any good. I do want to say that I totally disagree with all your statements concerning Nadar, but I do understand how you can feel that way.
Where I live I mostly find myself in debates with bush supporters though. So, this list is refreshing to that I alone do not hate bush. Can you believe people still want to vote for him? I'm starting to brace myself for his win because I do expect him to cheat and lie this time as well. Thats another thing!! Bush did not win the last election, HE DID NOT WIN. Gore in reality won the election the fucker got duped and he let it happen. So you can't really blame Nader supporters because bush did not win. I really hope the same shit that happened last year doesn't happen again. bah! the more I talk to people and everyone in this town has election fever, the more I feel bush will win this year, no matter if he actually wins or not.
I'm gonna go get coffee.
Bleu
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2816583 - 06/22/04 08:38 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Sigh. Gore won the popular vote in the last election. That is true enough. However the popular vote is NOT how we elect our presidents in this country. The electoral college is our current system of choice despite how much animosity you(or I) have towards it. As such, through the court system it was ruled that Bush had taken Florida and as a result had enough electoral votes to claim victory.
What exactly do you like about Nader, by the way? Feel free to start a new thread on this or not respond if you really don't want to talk about it.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
blu3
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2816599 - 06/22/04 08:44 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
ack.. I will respond to your nardar question, but I really gotta go. I'll return tonight and post a reply
|
blu3
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2817681 - 06/22/04 03:54 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Its easier to explain what I don't like about Nader.
If you go to this link
http://www.votenader.org/issues/
It lists his viewpoint on various issues
I basically agree with him on all his issues. I do think he's a little over ambitious and even by some freak chance he was elected I don't think he'd be able to follow through on half those.
ones I epically like are:
Equal Rights For Women
that included harsher punishment and longer jail time for those who commit violent acts against woman, *reproductive freedom* and Economic rights.
Healthcare
I know this has been in debate for eons and I've always been on the side that healthcare should be available for whoever needs it regardless of their wealth or gender. I think instead of spending MY tax money on bullets and bombs to attack other countries maybe we should spend the money helping and healing people in this country.Probably never going to happen but... oh well Nader basically feels the same way.
Crackdown on corporate crimes and abuse
I epically like this one. These massive cooperation's are taking advantage of their investors , employees, consumers etc... noone is doing anything about it. Some of these companies are committing fraud right under our noses and no one pays attention until something like Enron happens and by then its to late. People are out millions sometimes, bankrupt, jobless hopeless, Nader wants to crack down and keep an eye on these corrupt companies, Kerry and Bush will never ever do such thing because these companies are funding their campaign.
Fair Tax.: Tax wealth more then work.
He opposes the occupation and invasion of Iraq
"Wants to restore and expand civil liberties and constitutional rights"
Certain "Civil liberties and due process of law are eroding due to the ?war on terrorism? ' he wants to give them back to us.
Equal rights for gays and lesbians
End the war on drugs
Rethink and revise the criminal justice system,
we all know this 3-strike system isn't working
Those are the issues that are particular close to my heart 
Next, I'll list the ones I DO NOT agree with or don't feel they are plausible
Supports Civil Rights of Muslim and Arab Americans
"wah" that's my response to that and to any other "civil rights" causes of the 21st century. Yes, maybe in the 60ties there was a need to fight for civil rights but now everyone legally is considered equal. Anything else is personal predacious. You cannot force people to become open-minded.
Favors Youth Voting: Lowering the Voting Age to 16
HAHA ! laughable. I remember being 16... 16 year olds should not ever ever vote. They can't even manage to make intelligent decisions in their own lives I don't want them affecting the country.
Education for everyone
wonderful goal.. but its not going to happen.
but he does agree there's an "Over-emphasis on standardized testing" which there is and that I would like to see changed.
"Wants fair trade that protects the environment, labor rights and consumer needs"
I think this would end up costing me, the consumer to much money.
so, no thank you
"Wants to end poverty in the United States"
pipedream!! some people just don't want to work.. not ever gonna happen. wish it could though.
so, there you go. I disagree with him too, so he's not the "perfect" candidate, but pretty damn close. I really wish there were more politicians out there like him.
|
Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2817794 - 06/22/04 04:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
too bad he's wasting his time and energy and other people's money running for president instead of something else...we need winnable strategies not political statements.
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2817834 - 06/22/04 04:27 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Equal Rights For Women
that included harsher punishment and longer jail time for those who commit violent acts against woman
Is this bizarro world or something. The title is Equal rights for a specific group. It's first point is that their should be inequality when doling out punishment. Why should murdering a female be any different than murdering a male? Why should raping a female(factoring out pregnancy) be any different than raping a male?
Quote:
*reproductive freedom*
No complaints there.
Quote:
and Economic rights.
Which economic rights are being denied to women?
Quote:
Healthcare
I know this has been in debate for eons and I've always been on the side that healthcare should be available for whoever needs it regardless of their wealth or gender. I think instead of spending MY tax money on bullets and bombs to attack other countries maybe we should spend the money helping and healing people in this country.Probably never going to happen but... oh well Nader basically feels the same way.
Before attacking universal healthcare I'll say this: This is completely and blatantly unconstitutional. If Ralph Nader is such a good man, he should have the decency to come out and say he's either not in favor of the constitution or he believes it needs serious retooling.
Universal Healthcare has had fairly disastrous effects throughout the countries that have implemented it. A thread that is now probably a few pages back regarding Canada has several links to articles that show the shortfall of such a system. Healthcare essentially becomes rationed off. Non-essential surgery requires an immense waiting list(keep in mind non-essential can be something that causes you a great deal of constant pain) and even things like Chemotherapy make one wait long enough that Canadians flock to America for immediate care.
Quote:
Fair Tax.: Tax wealth more then work.
How about instead of shifting the tax we work to reduce and eventually eliminate most taxes? The Libertarian Party has the abolition of the 16th amendment as one of its long-term goals.
Quote:
He opposes the occupation and invasion of Iraq
No objections there.
Quote:
"Wants to restore and expand civil liberties and constitutional rights"
Certain "Civil liberties and due process of law are eroding due to the ?war on terrorism? ' he wants to give them back to us.
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS?! A Presidential Candidate should know better. The constitution grants us NO rights. It lists a FEW of the MANY that are inherent in us, Natural Rights. To say Constitutional Rights is to connote that government has afforded us our rights and so it logically follows that government can take away these rights. The difference between rights and priviledges has been paramount throughout our histories.
I agree with the need to restore what liberties the government has tried to coerce us out of through 'threats of terror.'
Quote:
Equal rights for gays and lesbians
Agreed...but on the marriage issue, the problem is not whether or not the government should recognize gay and lesbian marriages. The problem is whether or not government should be involved with marriage at all. I say NO.
Quote:
End the war on drugs
Quote:
Favors Youth Voting: Lowering the Voting Age to 16
HAHA ! laughable. I remember being 16... 16 year olds should not ever ever vote. They can't even manage to make intelligent decisions in their own lives I don't want them affecting the country.
Agree...18 is fine.
Quote:
Education for everyone
wonderful goal.. but its not going to happen.
but he does agree there's an "Over-emphasis on standardized testing" which there is and that I would like to see changed.
Ugh. Public education is not a legitimate function of government...Get it out!
Quote:
"Wants fair trade that protects the environment, labor rights and consumer needs"
I think this would end up costing me, the consumer to much money.
so, no thank you
You're absolutely correct. Fair Trade, which implies tariffs have been utterly and completely proven as deletarious to the economy. Fair Trade is a no.
Quote:
"Wants to end poverty in the United States"
pipedream!! some people just don't want to work.. not ever gonna happen. wish it could though.
The best way to raise the standard of living is through government non-intervention in the economy.
Quote:
so, there you go. I disagree with him too, so he's not the "perfect" candidate, but pretty damn close.
He's not even remotely close. Hell, I don't even think he's RELATIVELY that good.
Quote:
I really wish there were more politicians out there like him.
I really wish there were less politicians.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
blu3
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Ancalagon]
#2819503 - 06/22/04 11:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Is this bizarro world or something. The title is Equal rights for a specific group. It's first point is that their should be inequality when doling out punishment. Why should murdering a female be any different than murdering a male? Why should raping a female(factoring out pregnancy) be any different than raping a male?
Well, I think we all know the percentage of men getting abused and murdered by women is far less then the men who abuse and murder women. I was wrong about the increased prison time... just a dream. Sorry, from personal experiences I am bitter towards men who hit woman. Anyways, what Nader wants is to support the Violence against women act. You can find some more information at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/vawo/ and http://www.now.org/issues/violence/vawa/vawa1998.html, basically it provides government funded classes and facilities for abused and battered woman. It'll also provide various family services, such as family,group and individual therapy and anger management classes. The woman who allow themselves to be abused don't do it because they are too stupid to leave , they allow it because they have low self esteem and the men who do it to them also have physiological problems. So, instead of sticking the guy in jail and expecting them to just *know* how to get on, this act would give them the ability to learn how to change. Very useful in preventing repeat offenders.
Which economic rights are being denied to women?
Here are some statics I found, in 2000 Women's earnings adverage 76 cents for every 1$ earned by men, lifetime loss of 650,133.
Heres a quote from http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763170.html
"The Equal Pay Act was signed in 1963, making it illegal for employers to pay unequal wages to men and women who hold the same job and do the same work. At the time of the EPA's passage, women earned just 58 cents for every dollar earned by men. By 2001, nearly 40 years later, that rate had only increased to 76 cents, an improvement of less than half a penny a year . Minority women fare the worst. African-American women earn just 64 cents to every dollar earned by white men, and for Hispanic women that figure drops to merely 52 cents per dollar." Thats fucking patheic, if women earned as much as men the poverty level would be "cut in half".. its a short article you should read it...
For a woman to make as much as her male counterpart she would have to work the entire year plus an extra 4 months.
Before attacking universal healthcare I'll say this: This is completely and blatantly unconstitutional. If Ralph Nader is such a good man, he should have the decency to come out and say he's either not in favor of the constitution or he believes it needs serious retooling.
Well, he wouldn't be the first.
Universal Healthcare has had fairly disastrous effects throughout the countries that have implemented it. A thread that is now probably a few pages back regarding Canada has several links to articles that show the shortfall of such a system. Healthcare essentially becomes rationed off. Non-essential surgery requires an immense waiting list(keep in mind non-essential can be something that causes you a great deal of constant pain) and even things like Chemotherapy make one wait long enough that Canadians flock to America for immediate care.
heres a quote from the Nader site. It seems like his version is a little more realistic. I think he just wants to provide every american with health insurance for a reasonable rate.
"Health Care Universally Available
We need to get the insurance companies out of administering health care, increase patient choice, expand coverage and save money. The United States spends far more on health care per capita than any other country in the world, but more than 45 million Americans have no health insurance. A single-payer program, with full medical coverage, should provide health care that provides comprehensive benefits with quality care and cost controls to all Americans throughout their lives."
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair Tax.: Tax wealth more then work.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about instead of shifting the tax we work to reduce and eventually eliminate most taxes? The Libertarian Party has the abolition of the 16th amendment as one of its long-term goals.
Heres some more statics on how the richer are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Theres always going to be taxes of some kind, nader just wants to make sure people are taxed fairly. Heres 3 statistics quoted in Stupid White Men by Michael Moore pg 52, yes I know he's a known left wing political author, but his facts so far have been proven factual everytime I check.
"From 1979 until now, the richest 1% in the country have seen their wages increase by 157%; those in the bottom 20% are actually making $100 less a year(adjusted for inflation) then you were at the dawn of the Regan era."
"In the most recent year for which there are figures, 44 of the top 82 companies in the United States did not pay the standard rate of 35% in taxes that corporations are expected to pay. In fact, 17% of them paid NO taxes at all- and 7 of those, including General Motors, played the tax code like a harp, juggling business expenses and tax credits until the government actually owed [I]them[/I] millions of dollar!"
So, the 65 million this company claimed was owed to them, the American citizens had to pay... no wonder the IRS was quick to get their grubby paws on the meager $4000 savings my dad tried to leave my 16 year old sister after his death.
"Another 1,279 corporations with assets of $250 million or more also paid NO taxes and reported "no income" for 1995 (the most recent year for which statistics were available)"
Forbes magazine estimates that corporate tax shelters (when they move their home offices out of the country to avoid taxes) cost Americas over $10 billion a year. We have to make up the difference by paying more taxes or losing services.
I could really go on and on.
I agree with the need to restore what liberties the government has tried to coerce us out of through 'threats of terror.
I agree
Agreed...but on the marriage issue, the problem is not whether or not the government should recognize gay and lesbian marriages. The problem is whether or not government should be involved with marriage at all. I say NO.
I shall quote the 14th amendment
Section 1 All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of the law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal pertection off the laws.
I've read it 4 times not once did I see, "except gays". You'd think that would be enough... guess not.
|
Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,213
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 4 hours, 29 minutes
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2819595 - 06/23/04 12:01 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
--------------------------------
Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
|
blu3
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: Learyfan]
#2819790 - 06/23/04 01:19 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
god he's foul...
hes the fucking anti christ.
|
silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2819793 - 06/23/04 01:20 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blu3 said:
god he's foul...
hes the fucking anti christ.
Which is why this election is too important to throw your vote away.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
|
blu3
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: silversoul7]
#2819808 - 06/23/04 01:27 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
silversoul7 said:
Quote:
blu3 said:
god he's foul...
hes the fucking anti christ.
Which is why this election is too important to throw your vote away.
which is why who I am voting for is still up in the air.
Although I clearly prefer Nader. I believe it was agreed earlier in this thread that popular vote doesn't matter so, if my state is predominantly one or the other then why does it matter who I vote for?
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: blu3]
#2820212 - 06/23/04 08:30 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Well, I think we all know the percentage of men getting abused and murdered by women is far less then the men who abuse and murder women.
What's your point? I'm fairly certain the amount of blacks who commit violent crime against asians is higher than the amount of asians who commit violent crimes against blacks. Following your logic train the blacks should be punished more severely.
Quote:
I was wrong about the increased prison time... just a dream. Sorry, from personal experiences I am bitter towards men who hit woman.
Better things to be dreaming. Apology accepted though =D
Quote:
Anyways, what Nader wants is to support the Violence against women act. You can find some more information at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/vawo/ and http://www.now.org/issues/violence/vawa/vawa1998.html, basically it provides government funded classes and facilities for abused and battered woman. It'll also provide various family services, such as family,group and individual therapy and anger management classes. The woman who allow themselves to be abused don't do it because they are too stupid to leave , they allow it because they have low self esteem and the men who do it to them also have physiological problems. So, instead of sticking the guy in jail and expecting them to just *know* how to get on, this act would give them the ability to learn how to change. Very useful in preventing repeat offenders.
I hate to bust out the constitution card again but it's one of my favorites. The constitution delegates to the federal government no such power that allows them to set up clinics for this function. I would not be opposed to such training and classes for prisoners but forcing me to pay for these clinics is unconstitutional.
Quote:
Here are some statics I found, in 2000 Women's earnings adverage 76 cents for every 1$ earned by men, lifetime loss of 650,133.
Heres a quote from http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763170.html
"The Equal Pay Act was signed in 1963, making it illegal for employers to pay unequal wages to men and women who hold the same job and do the same work. At the time of the EPA's passage, women earned just 58 cents for every dollar earned by men. By 2001, nearly 40 years later, that rate had only increased to 76 cents, an improvement of less than half a penny a year . Minority women fare the worst. African-American women earn just 64 cents to every dollar earned by white men, and for Hispanic women that figure drops to merely 52 cents per dollar." Thats fucking patheic, if women earned as much as men the poverty level would be "cut in half".. its a short article you should read it...
For a woman to make as much as her male counterpart she would have to work the entire year plus an extra 4 months.
Those numbers on their own are almost definitely true. They do not, however, take into account the ridiculous amount of other factors at work. Find me numbers for the amount of caucasian males V. caucasian females V. black males V. black females V. hispanic males, etc. that have phD's, masters degrees, a general college education, a high school diploma, etc. The KIND of jobs women and men take also play a role. There are a tremendous amount of women in the nursing and teaching professions relative to the amount of men in them. These positions generally pay less than notoriously male dominated jobs such as truck driver, construction worker, etc. I do not claim to be an authority on this so I may very well be off. I also do not claim that NO gender discrimination exists...merely that these numbers do not tell the whole truth.
Quote:
Well, he wouldn't be the first.
No excuse. At all.
Quote:
heres a quote from the Nader site. It seems like his version is a little more realistic. I think he just wants to provide every american with health insurance for a reasonable rate.
"Health Care Universally Available
We need to get the insurance companies out of administering health care, increase patient choice, expand coverage and save money. The United States spends far more on health care per capita than any other country in the world, but more than 45 million Americans have no health insurance. A single-payer program, with full medical coverage, should provide health care that provides comprehensive benefits with quality care and cost controls to all Americans throughout their lives."
I like how he throws save money up there. The trillions of dollars the fool politicians in washington are tossing around now with their failing long-term medicare schemes would be DWARFED by a universal healthcare plan such as Ralphie proposes. I assure you, Universal Healthcare no matter how many rainbows your dream candidate draws around it, DOES NOT WORK..EVER.
Quote:
Heres 3 statistics quoted in Stupid White Men by Michael Moore pg 52, yes I know he's a known left wing political author, but his facts so far have been proven factual everytime I check.
There are multiple threads up regarding Moore right now, suffice to say, he is one of the more deceptive motherfuckers on the planet today. Moore makes a living out of twisting and distorting the words and actions of others to suit his point of view at a given moment. Check out pinksharmark's thread near the top of the front page linking to a scathing review by a liberal of the lies rampant in Moore's new movie.
Quote:
I shall quote the 14th amendment
Section 1 All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of the law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal pertection off the laws.
I've read it 4 times not once did I see, "except gays". You'd think that would be enough... guess not.
I'll repeat, Government should not be involved in marriage...at all. Government for a sizeable period in our history had nothing to do with marriage. They only started issuing licenses because of the interracial marriages that became more frequent in the 19th century. Politicians somewhere thought this'd be an excellent way to swindle some more money out of people so they made marriage licenses universal. If the choice is between gays being granted marriage recognition and not, I would absolutely be in favor of their marriages being recognized if some church has legally married them. I would much prefer if we could get government out of this entire ordeal, however.
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
grib
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: ABBAZABA]
#2820326 - 06/23/04 09:33 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
F*%$ Bush, Kerry, Nader, et. al.
Why not vote for Michael Badnarik the LP nominee?
--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!! [Re: grib]
#2820344 - 06/23/04 09:40 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Kratom Capsules for Sale 
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order 
Buy Bali Kratom Powder 
Feminized Cannabis Seeds
Edit 
Reply 
Teiro
wingnutx
1 2 all )
luvdemshrooms
mabus