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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? * 1
    #28055780 - 11/17/22 07:56 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement?
November 16, 2022 - Microdose

“Amphetamines negatively affect empathy, psychedelics do the opposite.” 

So tweeted Elon Musk on November 13th, the latest in a string of pro-psychedelic comments and Tweets. The controversial billionaire CEO of SpaceX, “TechnoKing” of Tesla, and Twitter’s “Chief Twit” has not been shy about his support for psychedelics, and though he has never admitted it publicly, it is an open secret that he partakes in mind-altering experiences.

Now, depending on who you ask, Elon Musk is either a visionary technologist dragging humanity into the future, or a corrupt billionaire with a cult of personality, who makes wild claims that will never be realized.

And while I will not solve that debate in this article, perhaps I can try to answer a different question: Is Elon Musk helping or hurting the psychedelic movement?

The answer, it seems to me, is that to the extent that Musk influences the psychedelic space at all — more on that later — he has an overall positive effect.

The reason is quite simple. Elon Musk has a huge following of fans who hang on to his every word. If he pushes for psychedelic acceptance and destigmatization, millions of people who would have otherwise had no opinion on psychedelics will be less inclined to believe the decades of anti-psychedelic propaganda, and may even decide to try psychedelics themselves.

On the flip side, those who distrust, dislike, and perhaps even fear Musk will likely not have their opinion swayed either way. No one who is pro-psychedelics will see Musk’s Tweets and decide, “Hey, you know what, I’m anti-psychedelics now.” After all, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

In sum then, Musk becoming a psychedelics advocate will push at least some people who listen to him into having a reasonable position on psychedelics, while having no effect on those who don’t listen to him. 

There are, however, a couple of nuances that should be discussed. 

The first question is, just how large of an opinion shift will be caused by Musk making sporadic pro-psychedelic statements? While I am fairly confident that the effect leans in the positive direction, the size of said effect is difficult to gauge. If even 1% of his 115 million Twitter followers change their minds because of him, it would have seismic ripples in public perception. But as of yet, there is zero evidence that his stance has shifted the minds of anyone, let alone over a million people. Perhaps one day we will have an understanding of whether Musk moved many people in the right direction on this issue, but today we just don’t know.

Next, there is the fear of many that the psychedelics movement is being hijacked and “led” by the wrong people. This is an argument often made by people who are distrustful of those on the right of the political spectrum talking openly about psychedelics. For example, as he has shifted towards the cultural right in recent years, Joe Rogan has gone from a hero who mainstreamed psychedelics to millions, to a dangerous right-winger co-opting the psychedelics space.

Now, I would quibble with this line of thinking for a couple of reasons. First, even accepting the premise that people like Musk and Rogan are on the political right — they definitely are on certain issues, but on others they could clearly be characterized as center-left — the idea that conservative public figures being pro-psychedelic is a bad thing is absurd. If we truly want to see legislative and cultural change on the psychedelics front — and perhaps even end the War on Drugs — we should celebrate the fact that we have prominent voices across the political spectrum advocating a change in culture and policy.

If there is bi-partisan and bi-cultural support for normalizing psychedelics, we are more likely to see great progress than if it is an issue owned solely by “the left.”

Next, the idea that by voicing their positive opinions on psychedelics, people like Elon are “hijacking” the movement doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. They are adding to the chorus, not directing it. If someone enters the intellectual world of psychedelics through Elon Musk, upon even the most basic of research they will still be exposed to voices such as the McKennas, and they will quickly learn about the thousands of years of Indigenous use in ceremonies. 

Finally, there is the question of what the goals of the “psychedelics movement” are, what they should be, and whether Elon is aligned with those. Outside of the most corporate settings, in general I believe that most people in the psychedelics space hope for progress in three areas. 

First, scientific study of psychedelics in treating mental health conditions such as depression. Second, legalization and regulated retail markets for substances such as magic mushrooms, paired with a decriminalization of most, if not all, other drugs — in other words ending the War on Drugs. And finally, in accomplishing the above two, not infringing upon the rights and traditions of Native groups that have used these medicines for generations, and perhaps learning from their expertise. 

On Twitter at least, there is a palpable fear that Elon would only support the medicalization aspect of the psychedelics movement. Or, in other words, the only part that can make money. And while I could see this being an issue, there is no evidence — yet at least — of this being the case. Every time Musk has commented on psychedelics, they have been broadly supportive comments on their effectiveness in general. He has never done a deep dive into his beliefs on the subject (Elon if you’re reading this, call me) so these fears stem solely from a perhaps not unfounded distrust towards billionaires. I am sure that eventually we will gain a fuller understanding of Musk’s philosophy on psychedelics.

To summarize, in answering the question of whether Elon Musk’s occasional pro-psychedelic statements are having a positive effect on the psychedelic movement, we have to look at the effects in a holistic manner. It seems certain that given his huge and dedicated fan base, his musing will have at least converted some into the pro-psychedelics camp — though we have no way of knowing how many. This is not hijacking the movement, but rather it serves as one more entrance into the psychedelics world. People who first learn about the benefits of drugs such as psilocybin through Musk and are interested will soon discover other voices in the space.

Finally, Elon Musk has only made several comments and Tweets on the matter, so any fear of him only supporting the for-profit side of the psychedelic revolution is — at this moment at least — premature.

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Offlineiggycrop
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Registered: 10/26/20
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Re: Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? [Re: veggie]
    #28055914 - 11/17/22 10:15 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Trip to Mars

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 18,037
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? [Re: iggycrop]
    #28056003 - 11/17/22 11:25 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Amphetamines negatively affect empathy, psychedelics do the opposite.




People have intense sex on meth, raise their consciousness for rituals, and hallucinate after some days without sleep.

They follow Manson or commit dolphin house atrocities while on psychedelics.

There is no firm rule on how to access psychedelic terrain, or that seeing it makes you a better person.



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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Registered: 05/27/19
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Loc: With the loons
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Re: Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28056753 - 11/17/22 06:16 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Gut instinct is that no way would he try to profit off psychedelics, it's just in bad taste - Elon is eccentric and wants to shock and propel humanity into new domains, make boatloads of money while doing it yes of course, but he's not some kind of imagination-less opportunist.

Just look how he's being branded in the media: a "chaos agent." They mean this negatively, but we all know how threatening the truly "new" is to the old status quo. So, if the old status quo represented by mainstream media is horrified by him, that's probably a good sign. Because the old status quo sucks balls


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 18,037
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 1
    #28057372 - 11/18/22 12:17 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I don't have it on good authority but suspect that his business model is to launder subsidies.

I would like to think that you could design a better looking car or mobile home, or even solve physics problems, after traveling to enough alternate realities.

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OfflineFaithShallSaveThee


Registered: 09/20/22
Posts: 16
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
Re: Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28058106 - 11/18/22 11:39 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I think it's pretty clear that he's a grifter, and honestly kind of an idiot. Being the heir of an apartheid emerald mine doesn't make you a genius. I don't invest in anything he's tangentially related to, because who knows if one day he'll wake up with some new scheme to fuck everyone over (like tweeting that Tesla stock is too high...). I wouldn't personally trust him with a 10M pole to work in this industry. Who knows if one day he'll wake up and disavow it.

I think I disagree with the notion of "chorus" in the OP, simply because his voice outweighs so many others. More support is better, but I mean, do you trust your uncle who robbed your family to pawn your stuff off to be the best representative you want people to see when it comes to heroin? People's individual actions CAN harm a movement, especially if they're seen as psychotic or unstable. It doesn't change the fact that it's a substance that effects everyone differently, but it does sway public opinion, which matters in the eyes of voters.

If he sold mushrooms... Based off of his cars, they'd probably give you the nastiest bad trip of your life :crazy2:

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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? [Re: FaithShallSaveThee]
    #28058115 - 11/18/22 11:48 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I kind of doubt NASA would trust a company to shuttle their astronauts to and from outer space if its model was purely grifting and laundering


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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Offlineiggycrop
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Re: Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? [Re: FaithShallSaveThee]
    #28058240 - 11/18/22 01:34 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

This is all total bullshit.
Quote:

FaithShallSaveThee said:
I think it's pretty clear that he's a grifter, and honestly kind of an idiot. Being the heir of an apartheid emerald mine doesn't make you a genius. I don't invest in anything he's tangentially related to, because who knows if one day he'll wake up with some new scheme to fuck everyone over (like tweeting that Tesla stock is too high...). I wouldn't personally trust him with a 10M pole to work in this industry. Who knows if one day he'll wake up and disavow it.

I think I disagree with the notion of "chorus" in the OP, simply because his voice outweighs so many others. More support is better, but I mean, do you trust your uncle who robbed your family to pawn your stuff off to be the best representative you want people to see when it comes to heroin? People's individual actions CAN harm a movement, especially if they're seen as psychotic or unstable. It doesn't change the fact that it's a substance that effects everyone differently, but it does sway public opinion, which matters in the eyes of voters.

If he sold mushrooms... Based off of his cars, they'd probably give you the nastiest bad trip of your life :crazy2:




So you get your news from some woke idiots living in their parents basement and posting on Reddit.  And you've clearly never owned or driven a Tesla.  Got it.

Dude sees climate change as an issue, does what no one else could do and completely turns around the auto industry after making a superior product, thereby forcing all other automakers to try to catch up.

Dude sees waste and corruption in the launch industry and creates the first and so far only re-usable rocket.  Now 100% Dominates the industry.  Lowers prices substantially, and rolls all profits into an even better rocket designed to enable us to have a back up plan for when a comet melts earth. So greedy!

Pretty much every other billionare is probably a huge piece of dog shit though.  I'm not some Trumper or Q tard.  So don't try to go there.  But seriously there is so much bullshit and bad logic against Musk and it makes no sense to me.  The dude seriously is just being open and honest and trying to do the right thing and solve big problems.  He's risking everything he has to solve huge problems that effect everyone.

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OfflineFaithShallSaveThee


Registered: 09/20/22
Posts: 16
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
Re: Elon Talks Psychedelics: Is he Helping or Hurting the Movement? [Re: iggycrop]
    #28062333 - 11/20/22 07:50 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iggycrop said:
So you get your news from some woke idiots living in their parents basement and posting on Reddit.  And you've clearly never owned or driven a Tesla.  Got it.

Dude sees climate change as an issue, does what no one else could do and completely turns around the auto industry after making a superior product, thereby forcing all other automakers to try to catch up.

Dude sees waste and corruption in the launch industry and creates the first and so far only re-usable rocket.  Now 100% Dominates the industry.  Lowers prices substantially, and rolls all profits into an even better rocket designed to enable us to have a back up plan for when a comet melts earth. So greedy!

Pretty much every other billionare is probably a huge piece of dog shit though.  I'm not some Trumper or Q tard.  So don't try to go there.  But seriously there is so much bullshit and bad logic against Musk and it makes no sense to me.  The dude seriously is just being open and honest and trying to do the right thing and solve big problems.  He's risking everything he has to solve huge problems that effect everyone.




Actually, I HAVE driven a Tesla. Didn't enjoy it, was something my family member owned and let me try it out for a weekend :wink:. Your usage of the words "woke" and "reddit" clearly betray your own undesireable traits. Elon Musk adores Reddit, after all he begs for their attention and approval like the sad swine he is, posting "dank memes" to grab the attention of literal man children.

I don't care about rockets, whatever. If you want to solve the energy crisis, then yes, we need to focus on renewables. I highly agree on that front. Disengaging our usage of fossil fuels and reducing carbon emissions (READ: this doesn't include paying taxes that "negate" your carbon emissions, you're still polluting) across the board starting with our largest polluters (i.e. massive multi-billion corporations) should be our top priority. Right now, companies only care about what is cheapest, which is traditional fossil fuels.

The concept of renewable vehicles is worth exploring, especially considering how much driving is done across the world, although you'll have to forgive me for using a United States perspective, as that is where I live. However, the solution shouldn't start with producing millions of electric vehicles that will only go to waste due to planned obsolescence (and increased complexity in repairs making it more prohibitive to fix issues, and instead cheaper to buy a new vehicle, which drives PROFIT, the only thing companies can care about. Note I said company. Companies are not people, although they are composed of many different individuals, but all have the same composite goal of profit), it is instead reducing the need to drive by creating more walkable cities, increasing the usage of carbon neutral/negative public transportation, and reducing our dependency on delivered services.

Cities have a significantly lower carbon output per capita compared to Rural areas, due to the simple fact that less driving is required overall in cities. I live in a major city, and I do not drive on a regular basis, as it is completely unrequired for me. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what he claims, when Tesla's primary goal is to profit, and the only way they can profit is to sell new cars, creating more waste. Just look at the tech industry, they've tried to sell "repairable" products (laptops, computers, phones) for years now, but each attempt has floundered in popularity in comparison to the most popular, wasteful products. Yes, rural America cannot be transformed in this way, but we can make change in our biggest polluters this way.

Anyways, if you want to blow Elon Musk, go ahead, I won't stop you. But it certainly won't make me respect him any more or make me think that any billionaire deserves anything to begin with. He's a thief, a crook, and a fool, and that is all he ever will be.

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