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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28059983 - 11/19/22 12:01 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Something like that.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Enlil]
    #28060008 - 11/19/22 12:12 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Jewish people deserve scorn and ridicule as much as christians and muslims do.  Anyone who is still clinging to primitive superstition, particularly as part of a hierarchy based on righteousness, deserves to be shamed for it.

I'm not sure that's ever gonna go away until we're extinct or religion becomes only historical.




But people who call themselves Christians or Moslems are almost invariable religious. Many Jews are not. They don't lose that identification if they are atheists or agnostics.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28060014 - 11/19/22 12:15 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

As much as I recognize that people use the word that way, that use of the word is based on an arbitrary classification like any racial classification.  It's certainly not my use of the word.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Enlil]
    #28060267 - 11/19/22 03:20 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The Long Island RR shooter famously defended himself at trial.




My roommate from college had just started dating a girl from work when she was killed on that train


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Enlil]
    #28061131 - 11/20/22 04:56 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
As much as I recognize that people use the word that way, that use of the word is based on an arbitrary classification like any racial classification.  It's certainly not my use of the word.




I think "Jewish" has a broad range of meanings, and particularly for the Jews that I know or knew back in school, is mainly a term of self-identification, and the strength of that identification was magnified by previous extreme oppression and some current. IDK how religious most Jews are. We know there is a spectrum of classifications within the religion; orthodox, reform, etc. I personally never knew any Jews who talked about their religious beliefs, which contrasts with some Christians and Muslims, who a don't hesitate to talk about theirs. Judaism doesn't have core dogmatic beliefs compared to the later Abrahamic offshoots.

There was a certain historical effort to maintain Jewish identity, with anyone born to a Jewish mother or a convert considered by them to be a Jew, and a Jewish father probably. One way or the other, there is no consensus on the number of Jews in the world. I'm paraphrasing others here: the Jews are a people and not a religion. and Jewishness and Judaism are not necessarily the same thing. This quote probably confuses as much as it clarifies, "The underlying distinction between religion and ethnicity is foreign to Judaism itself".

But I care less about all that than my regular responses here to right wingers who may or may not be antisemitic. That being the reason why Jews have above average achievement outcomes is their culture promoting education and success (similar to Asian Americans) and not because of the Rothchilds. I know I took a roundabout way to getting there. Prejudice goes on for many generations and Woody Guthrie was probably right when he sang that it will last until everyone is too interbred to care.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28061691 - 11/20/22 01:04 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

There is a lot of evidence that Elon Musks parents were Jewish but Elon Musk is clearly Atheist and not a Jew.  Despite his name and his fathers name having meanings in Hebrew, he is not a Jew.

Therefore you can stop being a Jew any time you want.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: budmanman]
    #28062771 - 11/21/22 06:29 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Elon Musk has never confirmed or denied being Jewish. He studied at a Hebrew school when he was young. Being an atheist is irrelevant.

However if his mother had been Jewish, many in the Jewish community would consider him Jewish, even if he denied being one.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28062849 - 11/21/22 07:47 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Which is what makes it a completely arbitrary social construct.  If being "jewish" is arbitrarily defined and differs depending on who you ask, then being "anti-jewish" is equally as arbitrarily defined.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Enlil]
    #28062898 - 11/21/22 08:23 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

i dont keep up so sorry for being the little kid in the room but why does it matter if musk is jewish or not?

why would that ever matter? is or isnt. open or not. practicing or agnostic. who fucking cares??

hes an idiot and stupidity doesnt discriminate.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Enlil]
    #28062905 - 11/21/22 08:26 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You have a point but neither is completely arbitrarily defined; there's just definitional wiggle room. I'm all for social construction of reality explanations, but the whole, "who is a Jew" thing has centuries of tradition and probably is literally set in stone somewhere.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28063309 - 11/21/22 01:12 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

If elon is a jew then he is apart of the statistics of Jewish billionaires and if he isn't a jew then he is outside of that statistic of Jewish billionaires of which is .02% of the population but about 40% of the billionaires.  Should elon be one of the Jewish billionaires in the statistics or not. That is one reason why it matters. For the stats


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: budmanman]
    #28063314 - 11/21/22 01:18 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

That stat means nothing.  The fact that you think it means something says a lot about you, though.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Enlil]
    #28063318 - 11/21/22 01:26 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You'd probably be more successful if you were a jew Lawyer you should convert simply from a business aspect

I know if I was going to hire a lawyer and I had a choice on which one to hire there would be a leaning to hire one over the other


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: budmanman]
    #28063320 - 11/21/22 01:29 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

People assume I am jewish.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Enlil]
    #28063321 - 11/21/22 01:30 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Maybe the Jew was deep inside you all along


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: budmanman]
    #28063322 - 11/21/22 01:33 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Not that I recall, but there have been a few nights that I don't remember clearly....


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Offlineiggyhiggy
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28142675 - 01/16/23 10:51 AM (1 year, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Jewish people deserve scorn and ridicule as much as christians and muslims do.  Anyone who is still clinging to primitive superstition, particularly as part of a hierarchy based on righteousness, deserves to be shamed for it.

I'm not sure that's ever gonna go away until we're extinct or religion becomes only historical.




But people who call themselves Christians or Moslems are almost invariable religious. Many Jews are not. They don't lose that identification if they are atheists or agnostics.




I don't consider it to be 100% true.
I think most of the christian, muslim, jew or whatever else definition lies in cultural environment.
I live in a country where most people are Catholic Christian. I know plenty of people taht define themselves atheist, but i swear that their cultural values mostly fit with Catholic ones, despite their intentions, when it comes to ethical concepts. So, even if they are obviously free to consider themself what they want, i'd still consider them catholics, or 'mostly catholic', or 'of catholic culture'. Same goes for Muslims and in theory for Jews.
Jews in my are deserve a special exception because their community here is so ancient that they absorbed most of ethical values and common sense of the predominant Catholic society.
Cultural environment you are raised in is what i consider relevant: that's what affect a discussion with them about most issues. I don't think the name one gives to God is very important. Also i believe that owning to a religion is mostly a political convention, while the idea of God is quite strictly personal, despite obviously conditioned by cultural environment.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: iggyhiggy]
    #28145260 - 01/17/23 11:08 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

No one said was 100% true. It was a probabilistic statement. Almost invariably doesn't mean invariably. I still maintain that most people who call themselves Christians are religious. It depends where you live. Polish Catholics are usually religious. In Quebec or the Czech Republic, people of Catholic heritage are increasingly becoming atheists. It may take another generation before they stop calling themselves Catholics.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Offlineiggyhiggy
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Re: The Return of Antisemitism [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28145278 - 01/17/23 11:25 PM (1 year, 9 days ago)

Sorry, i wasn't clear...my poor english vocabulary.
For 100% i didn't mean 'in 100% of cases'; i meant that your statement in general isn't correct (IMO) in a qualitative sense, not statistically.
I agree that most people calling themself Muslim or Christian are actually religious.
My point is that also atheist people who are raised in a strongly Catholic (for example) country/family are, to a certain extent, Catholics.

I have personally observed a lot of examples who made me get to this conclusion...


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