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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28053824 - 11/15/22 11:16 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Probably the best outcome, even if they were fired by Russians. Heard a theory that it was someone confusing latitude and longitude before pressing the launch button. No way that it was an intentional attack by Russia, because it would be (a) actively, nuclear-y suicidal and (b) nobody starts an attack with a single low yield missile.

Article 5 against Russia is a much more significant threat to the world than Ukraine taking the blame for a mistake that could potentially trigger nuclear war.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28053832 - 11/15/22 11:28 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
There are now three independent “US officials” sources telling the Daily Beast that the missiles that hit Poland were Ukrainian, and not Russian.

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1592754953109512192?s=46&t=4LNL_bEetHO-cqQCAOX3CA


We can’t even execute a false flag properly anymore smh empire in serious decline



:rofl:

Maybe it was Ukraine's attempt at a false flag?  They're probably not as good at false flags as the US.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineiggyhiggy
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28053842 - 11/16/22 12:13 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

It more likely seems an incident.
Probably an Ukraine anti-aircraft trying to tear down a Russian missile from Belarus during yesterday diffuse strikes.
While writing, they are also reporting about 'parts of 2 missiles' so it still can be an intercepted Russian one.
I don't think we have the means to determinate it now, but i believe it's quite clearly an incident between missiles strike/interception.

Hard to believe to an intentional Russian attack, because it simply wouldn't make sense.
But also as a false flag wouldn't make much sense, as NATO would not start WW3 for an incident over 2 Polish farmers.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28053845 - 11/16/22 12:20 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Polish president says weapon debris is likely Russian origin.  Russia disagrees.  Wonder who is more trustworthy.  Stable Genius posts the Russia talking point as if it is a fact...I know who I believe
:canthelpbutlaugh:





Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
There are now three independent “US officials” sources telling the Daily Beast that the missiles that hit Poland were Ukrainian, and not Russian.

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1592754953109512192?s=46&t=4LNL_bEetHO-cqQCAOX3CA




:nofuckyouthough:

Unfortunately 2 innocent civilians died.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28053871 - 11/16/22 01:26 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
It's happened before, it happened again.

You can't redefine intimidation fal.

Quote:

Russian-installed authorities in the Kherson region said residents of a small Moscow-controlled area of the neighboring Mykolaiv region also will be able to vote, and that small area was “incorporated” into the Kherson region until all of Mykolaiv is taken over by Russian forces
Ukraine and the West have denounced the vote as a sham and an illegitimate step toward annexation of a large slice of the country from the Russian border to the Crimean Peninsula. A similar referendum took place in Crimea in 2014 before Moscow annexed it, a move that most of the world considered illegal.

Election officials planned to bring ballots to homes and set up makeshift polling stations near residential buildings in the first four days of voting, according to Russian-installed officials in the occupied regions, who cited safety reasons. Russian state TV on Friday morning showed teams of election officials going to ra esidential neighborhood, with one such group accompanied by a masked police officer carrying an assault rifle.

Ivan Fedorov, the Ukrainian mayor of Melitopol in the Zaporizhzhia region, told The Associated Press that Russians and residents of Crimea were brought into his city to urge people to vote.

The Russians see an overwhelming reluctance and fear to attend the referendum and are forced to bring people … to create an image and an illusion of the vote,” he said. “Groups of collaborators and Russians along with armed soldiers are doing a door-to-door poll, but few people open the doors to them.”
Polls also opened in Russia, where refugees and other residents from those regions could vote.

Denis Pushilin, the separatist leader of the Moscow-backed authorities in the Donetsk region, called the referendum “a historical milestone.”

Vyacheslav Volodin, the speaker of Russia’s lower house of parliament, the State Duma, addressed the regions in an online statement, saying: “If you decide to become part of the Russian Federation, we will support you.”

Luhansk Gov. Serhii Haidai accused Russian officials of taking down the names of people who voted against it. In online posts, Haidai also alleged that Russian officials threatened to kick down the doors of anyone who didn’t want to vote and shared photos of what appeared to be a pair of deserted polling stations.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/voting-begins-in-rigged-referendum-to-join-russia-in-occupied-parts-of-ukraine




Quote:

Local Ukrainian officials reported numerous incidents of voter coercion in the five days of voting, with photos and videos popping up on social media indicating a process that was neither free nor fair.

One video widely shared on the Telegram messaging app and Twitter shows security footage purportedly from an apartment building in an occupied area, with two armed soldiers escorting officials carrying ballot boxes through a stairwell. Another video showed residents at a polling place filling out ballots with Russian officials monitoring across the table.

Most of the vote was carried out by poll workers — under armed guard — bringing paper ballots door to door, as the process was so rushed there wasn't time to set up more complex voting infrastructure, according to the Russian state news agency TASS.

Local officials only opened polling stations to the public on the final day of voting. Russia and its proxies also organized voting for Ukrainians who had fled to Russia from the regions amid the conflict. Russia's own Central Election Commission was tasked with monitoring the vote and the country claimed to have international observers.

The process — and outcome — was reminiscent of the Kremlin's hastily staged referendum in Crimea over eight years ago, after Russian troops seized that part of Ukraine in 2014. The official outcome of that referendum, which was also denounced as a farce by international observers, was that more than 95% of voters wanted to join the Russian Federation.

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/2022-09-27/occupied-regions-of-ukraine-vote-to-join-russia-in-staged-referendums




Quote:

Vladimir Putin has just signed a document claiming to annex four Russia-occupied Ukrainian territories in Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions. Days before, Russia purported to hold “referendums” in these areas, with hastily staged “voting,” in some cases at gunpoint.

Just like the so-called referendum in Crimea in 2014, they hold no legal value and don’t provide a basis for annexation or transfer of sovereignty.

Russia remains an occupying power in these regions bound by the Fourth Geneva Convention, which continues to protect civilians in those areas. In particular, if Russian authorities conscript civilians from these areas, as they’ve been doing in occupied Crimea and occupied areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, they’ll be committing new war crimes.

War crimes under Russian occupation are nothing new. From the start of the occupation, Russian authorities have been suppressing dissent through widespread intimidation, including torture and enforced disappearances. I’ve interviewed dozens of civilians from Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, who shared horrific accounts of beatings, electric shocks, and incommunicado detention at the hands of Russian forces. Many were locked up for days or weeks, blindfolded, with their hands tied.

Russian propaganda, predictably, claims people overwhelmingly “voted” to join Russia.  Even if there were some genuine supporters, this does not give the process any legal value. Moreover, Ukrainians I spoke to paint a very different picture. Alexey Koshel, the head of Ukraine’s Committee of Voters, described to me how poll workers carried ballots door-to-door accompanied by armed soldiers: “Imagine …  [f]our armed men walk into your flat. You have to vote to join Russia, at gunpoint. If you refuse or vote ‘no’, you’ll be doing it right in front of them, they can see what you put on the ballot.”

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/09/30/fictitious-annexation-follows-voting-gunpoint







We went through this when the vote occurred.

Yes there were soldiers guarding the polling officials going door to door recording the votes of people with mobility issues as Ukrainian militia were threatening people before the vote, the BBC reported on this.

Quote:

Members of a guerrilla group called the Yellow Band have spread leaflets threatening anyone who votes and urging others to send photos and video of anyone who does in order to track them down later, AP reports.

The guerrillas have also sent around phone numbers of election commission chiefs in Kherson region, asking activists to "make their life unbearable", the agency reports.

Ukraine has threatened anyone organising or supporting the so-called referendums with eventual criminal prosecution, saying they face up to 15 years in prison if convicted.




Quote:

"My dad put 'no' [to joining Russia]," the woman said. "My mum stood nearby, and asked what would happen for putting 'no'. They said, 'Nothing'. Mum is now worried that the Russians will persecute them."




If you read the article there are no reports of anyone being threatened, unlike the Ukrainian militia was accused of doing.

Yes there were reports of people feeling intimidated, as I included above, but take a look at the video's from Graham Phillips and see if they have reason to be, I think the reported hysteria was overblown by the BBC :shrug:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63032705

More from Graham Phillips

And another one

and another one


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28053884 - 11/16/22 01:54 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I would always trust the word of the country that illegally deposed my government, replaced the officials and ran a referendum 3 days later!


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead]
    #28053958 - 11/16/22 04:08 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

No, no, no Twig, you simply don't understand how things work.
I trust my Komrad Falkun's polls, so when they say the people wanted this I do believe the people want it.  The problem is you believe CIA propaganda.  Putin is working with Trump and Xi to fight the deep state and this is all part of the plan.  My friend, please wake up!


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28053971 - 11/16/22 04:27 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Your first article pretty clearly mentions threats multiple times.

Quote:

Ukrainian journalist Maxim Eristavi tweeted to say that his family had been "forced to vote at gunpoint" in southern Ukraine.

"They come to your house," he wrote. "You have to openly tick the box for being annexed by Russia (or for staying with Ukraine if you feel suicidal). All while armed gunmen watch you."

Petro Kobernik, who left Kherson just before the voting began, told AP in an interview by phone: "The situation is changing rapidly, and people fear that they will be hurt either by the Russian military, or Ukrainian guerrillas and the advancing Ukrainian troops."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63032705




It does say Russians had armed guards because of guerrilla threats, but also doesn't highlight that occupying Russian forces had eliminated the capabilities of Ukranian security forces to conduct any security.

It does highlight the false precontext of said referendum too.

Quote:

The questions on the ballot papers (there is no digital voting) differ according to region.

This is because pro-Russian separatists have been running parts of Donetsk and Luhansk since 2014 when they held unrecognised independence referendums.

Voters there are being asked whether they "support their republic's accession to Russia as a federal subject".

In the parts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia occupied by Russian forces since the invasion in February, people are being asked if they "favour the region's secession from Ukraine, creation of an independent country and subsequent accession to Russia as a federal subject".

The ballot papers there are printed in both Ukrainian and Russian whereas in the eastern regions they are printed in Russian only.

Voting was spread over five days to allow for ballots to be "organised in communities and in a door-to-door manner for security reasons", Russian state news agency Tass reports.

Refugees now scattered across Russia can vote in as many as 200 polling stations there.

The vote is being heavily guarded by Russian or Russian-backed security forces, and with reason.

Not only have Ukrainian forces been pushing the Russians and their separatist allies back in both the east and south, but attacks on figures associated with the Russian occupation have mounted.

Former Ukrainian MP Oleksiy Zhuravko, who championed the Russian invasion, was killed along with another person in a missile attack on a hotel in Kherson on Sunday.

Reports say that Russian journalists who were also staying at the hotel escaped uninjured.

In the city of Berdyansk in Zaporizhzhia region, the deputy head of the city administration and his wife who headed the city election commission were killed in an attack a week before the referendum.

Members of a guerrilla group called the Yellow Band have spread leaflets threatening anyone who votes and urging others to send photos and video of anyone who does in order to track them down later, AP reports.

The guerrillas have also sent around phone numbers of election commission chiefs in Kherson region, asking activists to "make their life unbearable", the agency reports.

Ukraine has threatened anyone organising or supporting the so-called referendums with eventual criminal prosecution, saying they face up to 15 years in prison if convicted.




Graham Phillips is sanctioned for propaganda.

Quote:

A British citizen who video blogs pro-Kremlin material from Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine has been added to a UK government sanctions list.

Graham Phillips, who has been accused of being a conduit for pro-Russian propaganda, is one of 42 new designations added to the UK’s Russia sanctions list. Other additions include Russia’s minister and deputy minister of justice and two nephews of the Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov, who was himself placed under sanctions by Britain in March.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/26/british-pro-kremlin-video-blogger-graham-phillips-added-to-uk-government-russia-sanctions-list




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28054016 - 11/16/22 06:07 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Probably the best outcome, even if they were fired by Russians. Heard a theory that it was someone confusing latitude and longitude before pressing the launch button. No way that it was an intentional attack by Russia, because it would be (a) actively, nuclear-y suicidal and (b) nobody starts an attack with a single low yield missile.

Article 5 against Russia is a much more significant threat to the world than Ukraine taking the blame for a mistake that could potentially trigger nuclear war.




Agreed, it’s just ridiculous timing


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28054054 - 11/16/22 07:27 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/biden-said-ukraine-air-defence-missile-responsible-poland-blast-nato-source-2022-11-16/

Biden says Ukraine “defense” system responsible for Poland blast.



Welp, WW3 fanboys down bad today.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28054079 - 11/16/22 07:45 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Does that mean it was from Ukraine the nation State or Ukraine the geopolitical boundary? It's not very clear. I assume he means Ukraine owned the defense system and they accidentally blew people up in Poland. But it could be Russian if the implication is that it was fired from the geopolitical boundary, considering the invasion.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28054088 - 11/16/22 07:50 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You're Ukrainian?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: christopera]
    #28054175 - 11/16/22 09:06 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Does that mean it was from Ukraine the nation State or Ukraine the geopolitical boundary? It's not very clear. I assume he means Ukraine owned the defense system and they accidentally blew people up in Poland. But it could be Russian if the implication is that it was fired from the geopolitical boundary, considering the invasion.




I don’t think the backtracking would be this immediate if the latter was the case, but I’m not sure.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28054190 - 11/16/22 09:15 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

AP saying “preliminary assessments indicate the missile that struck Poland had been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.”

The narrative will now be “honest mistake” compared to yesterday when it was “NATO should invoke Article 5.”


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28054200 - 11/16/22 09:20 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Not pretty. At least Biden isn't attempting a cover up. His dementia might be working.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28054256 - 11/16/22 10:06 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
AP saying “preliminary assessments indicate the missile that struck Poland had been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.”

The narrative will now be “honest mistake” compared to yesterday when it was “NATO should invoke Article 5.”



Anti aircraft missiles don’t make holes in the ground like that

It’s still russias fault since Russia is 100% to blame for this war


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (11/16/22 10:09 AM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 2
    #28054281 - 11/16/22 10:25 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
AP saying “preliminary assessments indicate the missile that struck Poland had been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.”

The narrative will now be “honest mistake” compared to yesterday when it was “NATO should invoke Article 5.”



Anti aircraft missiles don’t make holes in the ground like that

It’s still russias fault since Russia is 100% to blame for this war




Quoted for posterity.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28054956 - 11/16/22 06:11 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Wait so that’s actually the line now lmao

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-seeks-access-site-poland-missile-strike-2022-11-16/

Quote:

Earlier on Wednesday, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the blast, which killed two people, was probably caused by a Ukrainian air defence missile but that Russia was ultimately responsible because it started the war in Ukraine.




:rofl:


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28054976 - 11/16/22 06:23 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

If Russia wasn’t firing missiles into Ukraine this wouldn’t have happened. Obviously


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28055037 - 11/16/22 07:05 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

It’s cute you’re pretending to have that ideal but that’s not how international law works. Can’t just do whatever the fuck you want because you’re at war with someone, legally nor morally.


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