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Mr Piggy
Big Dick Retard



Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 8,647
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rusty2096]
#28047417 - 11/12/22 05:05 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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It cannot be sterilized using water bath canning/steaming, which is what it was designed for.
The standard info for years has been that the brown rice was key, but I'm very interested in any proof otherwise if you have it.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mr Piggy]
#28047431 - 11/12/22 05:14 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I think it's only "resistance" is the fact it soaks up the water from the syringe injection leaving spore behind to sit on a small matrix of inoculation points vs grains the contaminated water stays there and there's not great inoculation points for spores.
Just my theory though
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cozmyc
gentle modern ape



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mr Piggy] 2
#28047436 - 11/12/22 05:15 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Wheat flour may get to gummy idk. My last cakes I ground millet to flour and it worked. Only one way to find out
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Rusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga



Registered: 08/23/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mr Piggy]
#28047443 - 11/12/22 05:22 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr Piggy said: It cannot be sterilized using water bath canning/steaming, which is what it was designed for.
The standard info for years has been that the brown rice was key, but I'm very interested in any proof otherwise if you have it.
Brown rice is key because white rice has very limited nutrients (like most white flours)
IDK why you'd ask me to prove BRF doesn't have antibacterial properties (only proof I have is anecdotal from testing BRF agar to clean bacterial plates with no better result than other recipes, so it's worth nothing).
That said, you are the one claiming is had bacterial resistance, and on what grounds? PF tek works? That I agree. Is does not make BRF resistant to bacteria. Doesn't that make you the one that should try and prove your claim? And it's a pretty big one IMO.
Edit: please don't see that as an argument because it isn't. I'd love to be proven wrong if we all can learn something from it
-------------------- Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. We don't own things - things own us. Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)
Edited by Rusty2096 (11/12/22 05:23 PM)
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Mr Piggy
Big Dick Retard



Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 8,647
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: rumfor69]
#28047445 - 11/12/22 05:24 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
rumfor69 said: I think it's only "resistance" is the fact it soaks up the water from the syringe injection leaving spore behind to sit on a small matrix of inoculation points vs grains the contaminated water stays there and there's not great inoculation points for spores.
Just my theory though
How would it soak up the water so readily if it's already at field capacity? It seems like the verm would do that job before the BRF had a chance. I kinda see where you'er going with this, but that idea doesn't seem to change the bacterial load.

I also have no idea why it works, so I'm all ears for any zany idea anyone has
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Mr Piggy
Big Dick Retard



Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 8,647
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rusty2096] 1
#28047449 - 11/12/22 05:28 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rusty2096 said:
Quote:
Mr Piggy said: It cannot be sterilized using water bath canning/steaming, which is what it was designed for.
The standard info for years has been that the brown rice was key, but I'm very interested in any proof otherwise if you have it.
Brown rice is key because white rice has very limited nutrients (like most white flours)
IDK why you'd ask me to prove BRF doesn't have antibacterial properties (only proof I have is anecdotal from testing BRF agar to clean bacterial plates with no better result than other recipes, so it's worth nothing).
That said, you are the one claiming is had bacterial resistance, and on what grounds? PF tek works? That I agree. Is does not make BRF resistant to bacteria. Doesn't that make you the one that should try and prove your claim? And it's a pretty big one IMO.
Edit: please don't see that as an argument because it isn't. I'd love to be proven wrong if we all can learn something from it
Oh no, you're right that I made the initial claim. Though your counter claim would also require proof and does not stand on any more merit than mine. I'm literally just parroting what i have heard here from cultivators for over a decade without any proof of my own. I absolutely could not produce any.
I was just taking issue with the use of the term sterilization, which is entirely inaccurate in PF Tek as it's originally designed.
By proof otherwise I meant proof of why it works, what mechanism prevents cakes from becoming contaminated so quickly. I wasn't asking for you to disprove BRF resistance to bacteria, which again I am just parroting.
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mr Piggy] 1
#28047452 - 11/12/22 05:31 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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My two favourite explanations have been how tight the structure is preventing contams (mostly bacteria) from spreading all over the place. Kinda like rum was saying about liquid in grain sitting there. I've seen cube myc over run bacteria plenty of times on agar.
The other is you don't shake or break up(although you can) pf cakes. Which is also related to spreading contam around like the structure of the cakes and spore solution interplay thing.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mr Piggy]
#28047459 - 11/12/22 05:36 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr Piggy said:
Quote:
rumfor69 said: I think it's only "resistance" is the fact it soaks up the water from the syringe injection leaving spore behind to sit on a small matrix of inoculation points vs grains the contaminated water stays there and there's not great inoculation points for spores.
Just my theory though
How would it soak up the water so readily if it's already at field capacity? It seems like the verm would do that job before the BRF had a chance. I kinda see where you'er going with this, but that idea doesn't seem to change the bacterial load.

I also have no idea why it works, so I'm all ears for any zany idea anyone has 
Just cause it's at field capacity doesn't mean it can't soak up more fluid preventing spore solution from pooling like it would on grains.
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hazyhorse
scoobin



Registered: 03/19/19
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: rumfor69] 3
#28047464 - 11/12/22 05:40 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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field capacity is not even remotely close to how much water coir can hold. hours of hand squeezing coir i over hydrated has taught me that lesson
i think the bacteria just canβt spread around as easily like it does in a grain jar, since there is no shaking involved & the verm kinda makes it stay in place since it canβt branch out for nutrition (i think)
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: hazyhorse]
#28047868 - 11/12/22 09:24 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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A few questions regarding bucket dehydrators:
1) what is the best build tek.
2) If you dry them all in one lump... can you pull the dried schrooms apart without a ton of breakage?
3) Has anyone made a larger than 5 gallon version?
I'm excited about these. I've never heard of them.
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DERRAYLD
Constructus


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: YoshiTrainer] 1
#28047930 - 11/12/22 10:18 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
YoshiTrainer said:
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: I bought some super clean wheat yesterday to try it out but then decided it's actually too much damn effort to prepare. At least I only bought 2kg, maybe the birds will like it.
Why not no-prep it? For a quart jar, 1 1/3C (315ml) wheat to 200ml water, PC @ 15 psi for 90min. If you are able, shake the jars after the PC cycle while still hot. It is not mandatory but you'll thank yourself later when they are cool and you go to shake them.
Good luck!
Thanks Yoshi, I'll prep them like this then and see how it goes. Appreciate the tek because I only knew about the 40min boil.
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Aziraphale2099
Stranger
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: DERRAYLD]
#28048255 - 11/13/22 07:27 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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First 2 are same plate, 3rd is another. Good myc or am I growing mold?


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Rabbit84
Ate Shroomz


Registered: 08/04/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
#28048273 - 11/13/22 07:53 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Looking for some opinions. I still have a lot of beads of moisture on the surface of these tubs and they are pretty big. Do you think I should increase FAE? I was trying to not do anything at all to these unmodified tubs so I haven't increased FAE at all and barely opened the lid except cracking the lids to take a picture everyday.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



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Posts: 6,852
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rabbit84]
#28048355 - 11/13/22 09:06 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Wheeeew these unicorn bags aren't very strong I had 3 burst in the cooker. They really can't have any gaps to expand into.
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drVetker
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: hazyhorse]
#28048541 - 11/13/22 11:02 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hazyhorse said: field capacity is not even remotely close to how much water coir can hold. hours of hand squeezing coir i over hydrated has taught me that lesson
i think the bacteria just canβt spread around as easily like it does in a grain jar, since there is no shaking involved & the verm kinda makes it stay in place since it canβt branch out for nutrition (i think)
It seems i started some shit here. Thank you all for your input / opinion. I guess the answer to my original question is no one knows really why rye cake in pf tek won't fruit.
One thing I did notice while preping the cackes is that rye flour substrate was more clumpy than brf, probably due to better water absorption by rye flour than brown rice flour. It was whole grain rye flour to be exact. As the myc formed so nicely I thought no problems with contamination. But the way it's looking now I don't know what to think.
I guess the question is would you chuck the cake At this point (month+ without fruiting) so as not to contaminate the other two brf cakes?
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Rusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga



Registered: 08/23/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
#28048563 - 11/13/22 11:19 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Can you post pics?
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hazyhorse
scoobin



Registered: 03/19/19
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: drVetker]
#28048568 - 11/13/22 11:22 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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contamination isnβt gonna spread like that necessarily, if you donβt see colors i wouldnβt toss it just yet but idk that itβll be very productive
i wonder if even in flour form rye & other grains just canβt be steam sterilized effectively? could just be a coincidence but thereβs probably a decent reason PF specifically recommends BRF. i really donβt know
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drVetker
Stranger

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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rusty2096]
#28048609 - 11/13/22 11:38 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rusty2096 said: Can you post pics?
I did in the original post, one page back, but here it goes again
Edited by drVetker (11/13/22 11:38 AM)
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drVetker
Stranger

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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: hazyhorse]
#28048612 - 11/13/22 11:39 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks nonetheless
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Rusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga



Registered: 08/23/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] 1
#28048640 - 11/13/22 11:49 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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That's very dry and maybe moldy. I'd mist it good and put it in a misted ziplock (can't tell from that 1 pic but I have a feeling your FC is too big for 2 cakes)
-------------------- Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. We don't own things - things own us. Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)
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