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OfflineRache2020
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Addictive personality
    #28041000 - 11/08/22 07:59 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I think I have one and it explains a lot of things since I've been reading up about it. I've never found much enjoyment in life, don't get me wrong I know I'm lucky to have a roof over my head etc. but in terms of actually enjoying regular life (which is kind of important)...not really. If it's lack of Dopamine which sounds like a possibility then it makes sense because I only enjoy a "high". My brothers also have addictive personalities, none of us can do anything in moderation, it's all or nothing. My parents and grandparents were the opposite, not an addiction amongst any of them, so I can only guess it's just bad luck we have these problems. Couldn't have asked for better or more well-adjusted parents so no trauma that could've triggered it either.

I tried to learn from my brothers mistakes and stay away from cigarettes and alcohol which they are addicted to (don't really like them anyway luckily). None of us have ever tried hard drugs, thank god. But I did fall into a pretty serious gambling addiction. I also binge eat quite a bit, although it was worse when I was a kid.

I guess I'm just looking for some insight into it, I mean all discussion is welcome even if you think addiction is a bunch of BS and I just have no will power...

On to shrooms-I'm a bit worried they won't have any effect on me. Since they are not addictive really, and I don't have an average brain that enjoys things, I wonder if it's worth even taking them. I've tried them about 3 or 4 times and didn't get anything out of them at all. And I'd really rather avoid the horrible introspective shame and guilt I get on them. But then everyone raves about their experiences and the power of them for practically any mental health issue. So I think well maybe they will work next time. Anyone have an addictive personality and got anything from shrooms?

Tl;dr I'm worried my addictive personality will ruin a trip.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Rache2020]
    #28041147 - 11/08/22 08:54 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I think it's about comparing.
obsessive comparing.
a habit of checking if all the levels are optimal for experience,
then the overall feeling of numbness - of not having made contact with things,
or not having really experienced what is happening due to preoccupation with the readiness factor that would enable experiencing.

the extreme value put on getting the most out of something.

In this era, in which we all have resumes, and many of us have developed personal branding, which may just be an elaboration of sexual attraction factors (twisted to job and income rather than mating), the time left for enjoyment of life is reduced by the amount of self comparing that goes on, the involvement with being the best and getting the best gets in the way.

then again there is substance abuse which could mess things up.

this is all pretty normal, pretty much nothing to be dressing oneself down about, start relaxing, skipping comparing products and brands, going for middle way experiences rather than the extreme bestest of the best acquisitions - the mushrooms can take it from there.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Rache2020]
    #28041852 - 11/09/22 10:10 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rache2020 said:

My brothers also have addictive personalities, none of us can do anything in moderation




You are unable to behave differently, or you all choose not to behave differently?  Beware of the danger of adopting the belief that you are mentally crippled and are not making a choice how to act. That belief hinders discovering the motivations at the root of your behaviors.

People aren't born with a so-called addictive personality. Misery runs in families. Miserable people lead empty lives devoid of diverse meaningful intimate relationships. This enormous void fosters fixations on substitutes, such as drugs & alcohol, food, perfectionism, approval seeking, sex, or a combination of these things.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28041974 - 11/09/22 11:20 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I don't know if that is speaking to the dynamics of addiction though. Addiction can happen in any circumstance, so called fulfilling lives, relationships. In some cases the person who apparently has less of a life and is depressed is not the one who has more of addiction.


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OfflineRache2020
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28041998 - 11/09/22 11:35 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Like I said I tried really hard to learn from their mistakes and not ruin my life with addictions but I fell into gambling. Oh it's a choice but it's difficult to break habits and addictions. I take full responsibility for it, I don't ever wanna be like "I can't help this behaviour so I'll keep doing it because it's not my fault and I can't control myself".

My parents were happy people with no addictions so I don't know where it came from. I do have a pretty empty life but that's precisely because I've never enjoyed much of the regular stuff. My brothers had fun in their youth, but the addictions have taken over now-but that doesn't explain why they started in the first place. One brother is miserable the other isn't. Interesting perspective though. I've heard it's about running away from responsibility and life which fits me for sure, and perhaps one brother but not the other. So it's nothing to do with lack of Dopamine then?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Rache2020]
    #28042253 - 11/09/22 02:59 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I've tried them about 3 or 4 times and didn't get anything out of them at all. And I'd really rather avoid the horrible introspective shame and guilt I get on them.

Can you tell us more about this? You didn't get anything out of the experience or you didn't get anything good?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Kickle]
    #28042334 - 11/09/22 03:50 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

@Kickle if you are asking a person to tell you their experience, and then in the same post you judge the person, how do you expect that person to respond.

you need to suck up that story into your brain before you cough out your wisdom or lame ideas.

I keep telling you there is a difference between raw input without judgment and the flurry of possible associations to the input, the perceptions.

here you are foisting your perceptions in advance, claiming your inner domain over the matter before even accepting the details of the story.

this is against basic protocols of talk therapy.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28042352 - 11/09/22 04:02 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Just questions to better understand. I don't think psychedelics are for everyone. No judgement here.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Kickle]
    #28042410 - 11/09/22 04:27 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

ya right


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OfflineRache2020
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Kickle]
    #28042412 - 11/09/22 04:28 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I've tried them about 3 or 4 times and didn't get anything out of them at all. And I'd really rather avoid the horrible introspective shame and guilt I get on them.

Can you tell us more about this? You didn't get anything out of the experience or you didn't get anything good?




Nothing much happened. I get the fractals, the first time that was cool and I was smiling. Mainly because I was like "cool I've got fractals already it's working" then nothing...except the horrible introspection I keep talking about. I can't remember anything else happening I just wanted it to be over every time.

I don't mind the negative "lessons" that you end up realising helped you later (although jury is still out on whether I learnt anything from the negative thought loops) as long as I get some enjoyment out of it as well. I mean everyone else is talking about feelings of awe and wonder etc. I just want that and maybe some cool visuals. I guess doing it alone doesn't help.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Rache2020]
    #28042552 - 11/09/22 05:58 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Introspection can be brutal. In the looping sense as you already pointed out. I sometimes wonder what a loop is and why we can do that. Do you think we loop for any particular reason? I'm Freudian/Buddhist in my thinking on it. But I could well be wrong.

My best friend growing up introduced me to psychedelics. The first time we did them together I remember him really getting into the movement in the walls. His artwork was pretty amazing to look at. And he had a heart of gold. But over time his trips became less and less fun for him. Maybe it had to do with age, maybe something to do with life experiences, maybe none of it. But he would spend hours feeling tormented by anxiety and discomfort. Sometimes there were visuals, but increasingly it wasn't what the trip was about. He started to steer away from psychedelics. No physical dependence makes it easy to just avoid. Personally I thought it was the right call to steer clear. It's not always useful to swim in that water imo and to not listen to the unpleasantness of the experience may be foolhardy. Just IMO


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: syncro]
    #28042699 - 11/09/22 07:52 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Fentanyl was approved by the FDA in 1968.  In 2015 there was 1,600 kilograms used for medical use worldwide.

Many hundreds of thousands of people have been given fentanyl.  If you looked at 200,000 people who have been given fentanyl and did not become an addict, do you think you would observe trends?  Or would they all have special genes that make them immune to fentanyl addiction?  This idea that addiction is like being hit with lightning (it can happen to anyone) is one of many wacky (but popular) cultural beliefs.


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OfflineRache2020
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Kickle]
    #28042700 - 11/09/22 07:52 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I ruminate way too much anyway so it was no surprise to me I'd get stuck in bad thoughts but at the same time I figured I'm used to this, so I'll be fine, wrong! Well they weren't horrific but kinda morbid and depressing. One example was I felt like the mushrooms were laughing at me, my brain is so negative it was telling me "you were so naive thinking anything would work for you" and yeh nothing did. It's like seeing the worst most negative aspects of yourself. Some things you can improve on, but the self-doubt? I went into those trips so hopeful they were going to be amazing (which I never usually do because I always expect failure) and the mushrooms threw it back in my face. Now it will be really hard to expect a good trip.

Did your friend increase the dose? Or have some bad life experiences? Weird they would stop being fun for him. They get thrown around as a cure-all these days. Even if they do help I'm like "wait, what about the bad trips?" I'm sure they also have potential to make your mental state and life worse. Not to be a downer, they seem to work for most people. It's back to my addictive personality and inability to enjoy things I think...


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Rache2020]
    #28042709 - 11/09/22 07:56 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rache2020 said:

One example was I felt like the mushrooms were laughing at me, my brain is so negative it was telling me "you were so naive thinking anything would work for you" and yeh nothing did. It's like seeing the worst most negative aspects of yourself. Some things you can improve on, but the self-doubt?




I wouldn't call it self-doubt.  I'd call it self-loathing.

The inner critic can trigger self-hatred.  It's been a big struggle for me.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Rache2020]
    #28042784 - 11/09/22 08:33 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Did your friend increase the dose? Or have some bad life experiences?

Bad life experiences. A lot of us did, but other circumstances differed too. I was lucky to have the wilderness to break away at times.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Rache2020]
    #28043002 - 11/09/22 11:37 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

looping thought increases when stoned because the chain of associations seems to have clear connections back to the beginning of the reflexive train of thought that has not yet faded away.

the duration of each loop segment (of related mental contents) lasts longer and practically forces itself to continue as it reconnects back to the beginning segment that is still resonant.

Logic is equally associative and reflexive in nature, so this re-connection to a sustained (unfaded) chain starter appears as equally logical in its continuity, and it can be very engaging, even impossible to escape as we strongly respect logical integrity even though logic is just associative, which means it has some connection. The non-sense is that the compelling association is over a gap in time, which normally would seem to be a gap in logic.

To prevent looping one needs to shift attention to what is happening in the moment and we have to move into the sensation "realm", instead of the locked in mental only "realm". sensations can displace looping mental content. The most powerful sensation that can interrupt thought loops is the sense of smell which rides with the sense of breathing. (SMELL is most tightly connected to our instinctual overrides in the notions of curiosity, aversion (fear complex), and attraction (food and mating)).

Smell can kick the hypothalamus in gear to suppress top down feedback (perceptions + thoughts) in favour of sharpened sensation in the moment (vedana), then it enables following the breath in a magic carpet ride off the thought loop. This stoned navigation trick can be repeated as often as required.

Other than smell and breathing, the contact with surfaces is very good for getting in the moment, as is the observation of natural processes, like waves at the beach, birds roosting and flying etc.

Changing up your techniques for leaping out of loops is a good idea. too much repetition of the same exit strategy makes the exit associate as a part of the loop and it needs more concentration to keep it fresh and real (as opposed to dirty + lazy looped mental content).


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OfflineRache2020
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Kickle]
    #28043537 - 11/10/22 10:53 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)





I wouldn't call it self-doubt.  I'd call it self-loathing.

The inner critic can trigger self-hatred.  It's been a big struggle for me.




Oh yeh probably. I have both I'm sure!

Quote:

Kickle said:
Did your friend increase the dose? Or have some bad life experiences?

Bad life experiences. A lot of us did, but other circumstances differed too. I was lucky to have the wilderness to break away at times.




Ah yeh shame, I've had the same which is also a problem. I think if I'd tried this stuff at 20 I'd have much better experiences. I didn't have all these issues back then.


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OfflineRache2020
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28043549 - 11/10/22 11:01 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Wow thank you, that is so helpful! I know smell is the sense that gives you the most nostalgia. I never thought about stuff that could pull me out of loops, this will be so useful.

Yeh the trips have basically just been me in bed in the dark (because I thought that was better for visuals) and also being on my own I don't wanna move too much and get myself in any trouble. But I will definitely take something up with me that has a fragrance I can concentrate on next time I get stuck in a loop. Thank you!


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Rache2020]
    #28043587 - 11/10/22 11:34 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Well I'll throw in :2cents:
Take it for what it is, not much

There is significant research suggesting that the 'healthy' population is out of touch with reality. What does that mean? There are a few aspects that seem to be responsible for upbeat and positive outlooks.

  • Exaggerated/Overly positive views of self
  • Exaggerated/Overly stated sense of control
  • Overly positive/unsupported views of future outcomes


Experimentally, take a room full of individuals and give them a questionnaire on 20 'positive' personality traits. Cleanliness, intelligence, organizational skills, warmth, consideration, etc. Have them them self-report where they fall on each trait using a scale from 1-10, with 10 being the highest. Take the total score and divide by the 20 personality traits.  This gives you a rough average score on how great a person thinks they are.

Now you can assess this a few ways but maybe the most telling is to start from the top. People with an average of 9 or more, hold up their hands. People with an average of 8 -- 7 -- 6 -- 5.

By the time you get towards 5, an average amount of awesomeness, there may be a single person with their hand up. Maybe incredibly seldom someone is below a 5, but not likely. And the vast majority will be 7+. Yet statistically and in all practicality, half the room should be below average and half the room above. So what's going on that so many people are way above average?

This design has potential flaws, so there have been tons of other ways social psychologists have looked at this kind of self-enhancing bias people tend to have. Whether that be comparing self-reported measures to those of close family/friends, or performance reviews from workplaces, or historical context. But I use this example because you can literally perform this experiment yourself with no fancy equipment and whatever group size you have available. You can repeat it as many times as you want, free of charge. There are also correlations between individuals who rate themselves lower, closer to average, and depression. And people who rate themselves higher as being more mentally healthy.

So what's going on here? Is reality just depressing? We need to pretend it's going to get better, we need to think we're the shit, and we need to think we're in control to have a shot at being happy?

To some extent that seems to be the case. But there are exceptions. Many who tend to be more centrist or even reversed -- overly pessimistic in their views -- are great candidates for meditation. Those who are anxious tend to be great candidates for meditation.

I just read this article the other day: Meditation as effective as medication for anxiety, study finds

There's also this: researchers found no neurobiological difference between those with the depression diagnosis and those without

So while medications do target certain receptors and can be helpful, there is a good chance that neurochemical changes often represent symptom management more-so than causality. Akin to how a pain medication stops pain signals, but really has nothing to do with what was causing pain. If you break your arm, it was the broken arm that was the problem. Blocking the pain doesn't fix your arm. But it may help to cope. But you'd really want to get the arm to heal more than anything I think.


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OfflineRache2020
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Re: Addictive personality [Re: Kickle]
    #28047122 - 11/12/22 01:57 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Really interesting thanks! Even with my negative outlook things usually turn out even worse. I'd rather be prepared for the worst case scenario.

I know there is a lack of Dopamine with Parkinson's patients and they take L-dopa. Was wondering if that was something I could get. I'd love some "optimism bias", always wondered why I thought life sucked and everyone else thought it was great.


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