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OfflineBlue Helix
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Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure * 3
    #27080531 - 12/09/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I have long promoted liquid cultures direct to bulk substrates, and I attribute a lot of my success with growing through liquid cultures.  But until recently, it was pretty difficult to get good stainless steel needles of 12 or 14 gauge.  Thanks to vaping, that is no more.  Here's a good example.

I recommend a 14-guage needle is used at 2" to 3" in length.  If you purchased a blunt, you must grind the end as a shallow-pitched sharp (unless you can find a sharp one).  The needle should go into the red rubber septum (look up my LC lids) many times without ruining it (keep injecting in the same hole).  In addition to this you want to use at least 60ml of inoculum per 2 or 3 pounds of substrate, so if you use 7.5 pounds of substrate in an extra large spawn bag as I do you should either inject 60 ml twice or get a 140 ml syringe (140 ml syringes are usually rare and expensive, although I've found them for about $2 each on eBay before). 

The number one reason why people fail in LCs direct to bulk is that they use too little inoculum.  I've even seen folks using 8ml on a 3-pound bag and ask me "Why did my bag stall?"  It stalled because you used too little inoculum and bacteria took over.  We are not making spawn here, and bulk substrates do not inoculate as easily as spawn either.  I've tried bulk inoculations using a lot of inoculum and little, and my conclusion is that if you use too little, your bag will bacterially stall far more frequently.  I do not know why.

The second reason people fail with LC to bulk is that their LC is not sufficiently colonized.  When you let the LC settle, I recommend a MINIMUM of 25% of it blobs of mycelium that settle.  If you cannot achieve that density without spinning it constantly, then you need to get or make a magnetic spinner.  Don't use those watery inoculums I often see on this site.  Use a dense one.

Soon I'll be coming out with my LC-to-bulk monotub log results, but I can tell you already it is obvious that the LC-to-bulk performs as well if not better than spawning will in my test run.  By using an LC-to-bulk spawn bag to colonize before laying the substrate in your monotub, you eliminate steps to create spawn, but you also need a recipe that works since you can't go "by feel" anymore using that technique.



The following per-weight recipe is on my other thread about this.  It was computed from the following recommendations given to me: 0.75 parts per volume completed grain spawn, 1 part vermiculite, and 1 part coco coir all per VOLUME. 

Quote:

*** Cube Spawn Buster Formula (~10 pounds, ingredients in dry ounces, except water)
30.0 oz rye berries or WBS
14.0 oz vermiculite
  10 oz coco coir
108 oz water
TOTAL 162 (108/162 or ~66.7% water)




I typically use 7.5 pounds per spawn bag, so here is a 1.5X version for two extra large spawn bags:

Quote:

*** 15-pound Cube Spawn Buster Formula ***
45 oz rye
21 oz verm
15 oz coco coir
162 oz water
2 bags, each 7.5 pounds




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Offlinenogoodnamesleft
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Registered: 09/19/20
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27080692 - 12/09/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you for your many contributions.


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OfflineEcho7
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: Blue Helix] * 1
    #27166623 - 01/24/21 04:54 AM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Pseudo-necro for a question - so you would innoc' LC straight to a bulk substrate consisting of a typical, pasteurized coir/verm or coir/hpoo mix with no substitute for the spawn material (rye, wbs, etc) whatsoever? If so. once you've got your LC established you're basically doing this whole process without even using a pressure cooker. Cray cray. Or do you still PC up jars of rye/wbs/etc to mix in with the bulk substrate for macronutrient purposes?

This sort of prods at an issue that I've been pondering lately, regarding where the majority of macronutrients come from in a typical grain spawn -> bulk substrate grow. I'd always been of the impression that coir was mostly a sophisticated sponge that just helped the myc stay roughly uniformly hydrated, and that the majority of the dry weight of the fruits was decomposition of the grain spawn... one must assume that hpoo is actually decomposed as well. But if you've been able to LC -> bulk sub skipping the grains entirely, and still get similar flushes of fruits, then that pretty much explodes this theory.

If this method does indeed produce consistent, quality results without too much behind-the-curtain logistical hoh-nanny, then I'm inclined to guess the reason it hasn't caught on is because it's too simple, haha - people might feel like it delegitimizes the entire hobby. Twenty years ago folks had these sophisticated fruiting chambers and elaborate pH-balanced casing teks, ultrasonic humidifiers with custom-built outflow manifolds, precisely engineered & custom fabricated laminar flow hoods, and colorful varieties of LC with each genetic lineage painstakingly recorded in chain-of-custody style for each grow...

Fast forward fifteen years and you've got total morons like me just squirting our home-spun spore-water from one of those honkin' 12-guage flat-tip syringe tops into a pubic tangle of "pasteurized" coir in a literal pillow case, which then gets wantonly disgorged 12 days later into a battle-hardened rubbermaid where it will suffer total neglect until it is cracked open for repeated flushes of absolute fat daddy fruits, no fanning/misting/functioning neurons involved in the process at all. Lollll come to think of it, I'm an insult to the hobby whether I'm PC'ing rye berry jars or not.


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One step at a time.


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InvisibleAshtray161
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Registered: 03/21/21
Posts: 4,503
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: Echo7]
    #27463468 - 09/10/21 07:03 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Echo7 said:

Fast forward fifteen years and you've got total morons like me just squirting our home-spun spore-water from one of those honkin' 12-guage flat-tip syringe tops into a pubic tangle of "pasteurized" coir in a literal pillow case, which then gets wantonly disgorged 12 days later into a battle-hardened rubbermaid where it will suffer total neglect until it is cracked open for repeated flushes of absolute fat daddy fruits, no fanning/misting/functioning neurons involved in the process at all. Lollll come to think of it, I'm an insult to the hobby whether I'm PC'ing rye berry jars or not.




Im laughing so hard im crying rn


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: Ashtray161]
    #27463482 - 09/10/21 07:20 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

This is great! I've been literally thinking it would be best to run LC on all in one sub bags just like with gourmets.


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Invisiblewildlifesc
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Registered: 02/05/22
Posts: 248
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27660388 - 02/15/22 07:02 PM (2 years, 23 hours ago)

This seems like the best of both worlds:


Only a small amount of LC needed (3mL for what looks like a 5lb bag), and eliminates the step of needing to do spawn-to-bulk transfer. 

Why isn't everybody doing this?  Any downsides to this approach?


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Offlinedeathstar
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: Blue Helix]
    #28003953 - 10/17/22 09:44 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

It seems your other post about your cube buster spawn is gone. I'm pretty interested in the specifics of that if you could get around to it.


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Offlinebongoman
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: deathstar] * 1
    #28025310 - 10/30/22 09:40 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I had the Cubensis Spawn Buster "recipe" saved:

Quote:

Cubensis Spawn Buster Formula


(~10 pounds, ingredients in dry ounces, except water)

900g (30.0 oz) rye berries or WBS

420g (14.0 oz) vermiculite

300g (10 oz) coco coir


3.24 litres (108 oz) water

TOTAL 162 (108/162 or ~66.7% water)

Do 1.5x for 16 x pint jars

I do not do a presoak, but I am very careful that I get the right moisture content.  For bulk grain it is about 55% if I remember right, although normally I am doing **manure-based grain mixes which should be moisture balanced to 65%. ** You can easily do a moisture test by using the microwave, but given how you prep your grains, it shouldn't be required.





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Invisiblefungusul
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: bongoman]
    #28026860 - 10/31/22 08:12 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

:threadmonitor:


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Offlinedeathstar
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Re: Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure [Re: bongoman]
    #28032215 - 11/04/22 05:35 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Awesome. Man that is a tremendous amount of vermiculite.  Lol. Did you ever try it?


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