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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kryptos]
    #28324671 - 05/18/23 11:33 AM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Note that before Elmo bought Twitter, back under the government censorship regime, Twitter was temporarily blocked in Turkey because they refused to comply with the government censorship, until a Turkish judge overturned their ban.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28324838 - 05/18/23 01:38 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
There's at least one other option outside your forced dichotomy, Twitter could also use their corporate weight to challenge that law in a Turkish court on freedom of expression grounds. How do I know this? Because it happened in 2014:

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/a/2014/challenging-the-access-ban-in-turkey
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/a/2014/victory-for-free-expression-in-turkish-court



It's the same as what we've seen in India, where Twitter had previously challenged various laws in court...



And what do you know?  Twitter did exactly that, as you just pointed out.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...before falling into step post-Elon - he's been vocal about a policy of 'free speech' that aligns with the laws of the countries in which Twitter operates.



ALL companies are required to obey the laws in the countries in which they operate.  Twitter isn't alone in this.  If you think they're the only company following the law, you are being very sadly misled.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
That doesn't mean old Twitter would reliably protect free expression either - it's a company seeking to be profitable; always has been - but it certainly doesn't lend itself to your continued belief that Elin-Twitter is any different from all the other social media companies.



Twitter clearly does have more freedom than other social media companies.  I realize CrimethInc is still banned, but that's why I'm asking if they're even trying to get back on Twitter, or if they like to play victim?  As I previously pointed out, there are plenty of anarchist sites on Twitter, and I suspect if Crimethinc tried to get reinstated, they probably could.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kizzle]
    #28324842 - 05/18/23 01:39 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
He's probably handing over everyone's private data to these authoritarians as well.



What reason do you have to believe this?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28324845 - 05/18/23 01:41 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
He's all about free speech! Until it comes time to put his money where his mouth is, that is.



Correction:  He's all about free speech until it comes time to obey the law.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28324849 - 05/18/23 01:42 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Did you know that's the law in Turkey which ALL US companies have to comply with?

His "choice" was to comply with Turkish law, or remove Twitter from Turkey altogether.

Apparently you didn't know that - the mainstream media has tricked you again.  And Kryptos.



I am confused then @FW. So you are ok with the FBI telling Twitter what to censor then?



NO.

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Since they told twitter to censor speech that violated us laws?  :confused:



Twitter HAS TO censor speech that violates US laws.  All companies have to.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28324852 - 05/18/23 01:43 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Plenty of anarchists on twitter, 0 Erdogan critics though. 

@FW. Why is it censorship for Twitter to follow the law in the US, but not censorship for them to follow the law in Turkey? 


Here is an easier question.  Is Twitter censoring Erdogan critics?


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28324854 - 05/18/23 01:44 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Did you know that's the law in Turkey which ALL US companies have to comply with?




Lol, what kind of insanity is this?  Please, counselor, show me the U.S. law that states that all U.S. companies have to comply with Turkish law.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28324855 - 05/18/23 01:44 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Lol censorship is fine as long as its the government doing it apparently



I never said it's fine.  I just said companies are required to comply with the law.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28324857 - 05/18/23 01:45 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Did you know that's the law in Turkey which ALL US companies have to comply with?

His "choice" was to comply with Turkish law, or remove Twitter from Turkey altogether.

Apparently you didn't know that - the mainstream media has tricked you again.  And Kryptos.



I am confused then @FW. So you are ok with the FBI telling Twitter what to censor then?



NO.

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Since they told twitter to censor speech that violated us laws?  :confused:



Twitter HAS TO censor speech that violates US laws.  All companies have to.




You agree with the trump twitter ban now?  I remember you advocating for Elon to overturn it.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kryptos]
    #28324862 - 05/18/23 01:47 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Oh I see so if there is a law banning certain types of speech, then the government should be able to tell Twitter to get rid of that speech and Twitter better fuckin comply before they just get shut down.



Now you're getting it!

Quote:

Kryptos said:
So this whole thread didn't need to exist. If the government tells Twitter something, well, it's on Twitter to comply.



Incorrect.  Government never should have told Twitter to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28324874 - 05/18/23 01:52 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
@FW. Why is it censorship for Twitter to follow the law in the US, but not censorship for them to follow the law in Turkey? 



Because there is no law requiring Twitter to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story (among others).

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Here is an easier question.  Is Twitter censoring Erdogan critics?



Twitter is censoring what is required by law.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
    #28324878 - 05/18/23 01:55 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol, what kind of insanity is this?  Please, counselor, show me the U.S. law that states that all U.S. companies have to comply with Turkish law.



Who said there is a U.S. law that states that all U.S. companies have to comply with Turkish law?  There is a Turkish law that states that all U.S. companies operating in Turkey have to comply with Turkish law.  :flowstone:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28324883 - 05/18/23 01:56 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Twitter HAS TO censor speech that violates US laws.  All companies have to.



You agree with the trump twitter ban now?  I remember you advocating for Elon to overturn it.



No, I don't agree with it.  What US law said Trump has to be banned from social media?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28324933 - 05/18/23 02:29 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Twitter HAS TO censor speech that violates US laws.  All companies have to.



You agree with the trump twitter ban now?  I remember you advocating for Elon to overturn it.



No, I don't agree with it.  What US law said Trump has to be banned from social media?




Inciting violence is illegal.  That is why he was banned.  Twitter was just following the law.

So you think the law in Turkey names the specific critics that twitter is censoring?


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28324954 - 05/18/23 02:44 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Inciting violence is illegal.  That is why he was banned.  Twitter was just following the law.



Trump's Tweets only violated Twitter's policy from the time, not US law.

Quote:

Ice9 said:
So you think the law in Turkey names the specific critics that twitter is censoring?



Yes.

By the way, that article also shows Twitter is fighting the Turkish censorship law.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28324955 - 05/18/23 02:44 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol, what kind of insanity is this?  Please, counselor, show me the U.S. law that states that all U.S. companies have to comply with Turkish law.



Who said there is a U.S. law that states that all U.S. companies have to comply with Turkish law?  There is a Turkish law that states that all U.S. companies operating in Turkey have to comply with Turkish law.  :flowstone:



You literally said every U.S. company has to comply with turkish law.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
    #28324962 - 05/18/23 02:48 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol, what kind of insanity is this?  Please, counselor, show me the U.S. law that states that all U.S. companies have to comply with Turkish law.



Who said there is a U.S. law that states that all U.S. companies have to comply with Turkish law?  There is a Turkish law that states that all U.S. companies operating in Turkey have to comply with Turkish law.  :flowstone:



You literally said every U.S. company has to comply with turkish law.



Are you playing your childish semantics games again?

:ohyou:

I just clarified "that all U.S. companies operating in Turkey have to comply with Turkish law."


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28324967 - 05/18/23 02:52 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

That's misleading though.  Turkey has no jurisdiction to tell Twitter what to do in other countries.  As such, Twitter had no legal duty to censor.  At most, and this is unlikely, twitter had a duty to prevent that content from being sent to Turkey.  Even that isn't likely true.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
    #28324995 - 05/18/23 03:03 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

Are you suggesting Twitter is banning content that Turkish law forbids outside of Turkey?  Source?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28325027 - 05/18/23 03:18 PM (1 year, 1 day ago)

I'm not suggesting anything.  I'm saying that you've failed to support your claim that Twitter is subject to Turkish law at all, but you've definitely offered nothing to show that Twitter is required to censor content being sent to Turkey.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

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