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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127911 - 01/06/23 06:08 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I had no trouble understanding the decision itself - your representation of the decision is wrong. Yes, the Supreme Court reversed the decision; but not because it's 'not ok to censor content' as you put forth - rather, the decision was reversed because the state provided "no safeguards whatever against the suppression of nonobscene and constitutionally protected matter" in using a "system of prior administrative restraints without any provision for notice and hearing before publications are listed as 'objectionable' and without any provision for judicial review of the Commission's determination that such publications are 'objectionable.'"

I feel the simplest way to illustrate this distinction is by pointing out that the Supreme Court recommended criminal obscenity trials as the preferable method of regulation, because criminal sanctions "may be applied only after a determination of obscenity has been made in a criminal trial hedged about with the procedural safeguards of the criminal process." The decision isn't that the State must refrain from censorship - it's that the State must provide baked-in procedural safeguards to the process.



Exactly.  The Government can't censor unless they show content is illegal.  Precisely my point.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...the lack of aggrieved parties is much more likely to reflect an absence of coercion than anything more sinister.
If there was such a complaint, I would give their claim the benefit of the doubt - but it's not your role to claim other people were coerced into censorship.



There was clearly coercion and aggrieved parties (that is clear from the Twitter Files), and you saying otherwise doesn't change that. 

Don't take my word for it, look at the Twitter Files:






Taibbi is telling you how to interpret that email before you read it. That is called priming and it’s a classic technique used to manipulate the reader.

There’s no indication Twitter is being coerced. He is saying they didn’t have enough evidence on their end to attribute the BIRCS account to the GRU, but the government is now saying it is a GRU account (and therefore is engaging in electoral activity that violates TOS) and they are going ahead and suspending the account


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kizzle]
    #28127913 - 01/06/23 06:08 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
If people didn't want their representatives to be saying these things they wouldn't have voted for them.



So the person you voted for does everything you wanted?  :wtf:

Quote:

Kizzle said:
You seem to think the government has no right to free speech which is nonsense.



No, I don't think that.  Your statement is nonsense.

Quote:

Kizzle said:
It's literally their job to speak for the people. If people are concerned about things like misinformation on social media it's their right to ask these companies done about it.



They censor things that aren't misinformation, and THAT'S a problem in my opinion.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #28127919 - 01/06/23 06:10 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kwyjibo said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If I start a website to discuss cute pets, I should probably have a right to censor content that isn't about cute pets.



Then why don't you believe social media companies have the same right to choose what is on their platform?



I do believe it.  But I also believe the government shouldn't have the right to coerce platforms to censor content.

It's so weird that everyone here is defending censorship, and saying I'm the one who hates free speech.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28127920 - 01/06/23 06:12 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
I don't think what you posted shows
    a)aggrieved parties
    b)coercion
    But do explain whom is the aggrieved party?  Also, how were they coerced?



See the end of this post.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28127927 - 01/06/23 06:15 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

koods said:
It’s ok for the government to silence everyone who uses a social media site, but not ok for a social media site to silence speech that violates its terms of use?

This is insane logic



Holy Crap, what a take from FW.  He said the quiet part out loud in his worldview.



NO.  IT'S NOT OK for government to silence people who use a social media site.  That's what I've been arguing this whole time.

And it is ok for social media sites to silence speech that violates its terms of use, but being pro-Ukraine (for example) doesn't violate any social media platform's terms of use that I'm aware of.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127931 - 01/06/23 06:18 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

It's so weird that everyone here is defending censorship, and saying I'm the one who hates free speech.




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
And if they don’t you want the government to shut them down?



Then they don't silence people.





Statements such as these might be why people say you hate free speech.  When you advocate

1) A private business has no right to moderate their site as they see fit
2) The government should shut down said private business if it does not platform the people YOU want platformed

That's as anti-free speech as you can get. 
You know considering this
Quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.




Yet you want statement 1 and 2 above.  No Logical Consistency...


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28127934 - 01/06/23 06:19 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Taibbi is telling you how to interpret that email before you read it. That is called priming and it’s a classic technique used to manipulate the reader.



I quoted the Twitter executive, not Taibbi.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127937 - 01/06/23 06:21 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
I don't think what you posted shows
    a)aggrieved parties
    b)coercion
    But do explain whom is the aggrieved party?  Also, how were they coerced?



See the end of this post.



I read the end of the post.
Please explain, who is under duress?


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127939 - 01/06/23 06:22 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

koods said:
It’s ok for the government to silence everyone who uses a social media site, but not ok for a social media site to silence speech that violates its terms of use?

This is insane logic



Holy Crap, what a take from FW.  He said the quiet part out loud in his worldview.



NO.  IT'S NOT OK for government to silence people who use a social media site.  That's what I've been arguing this whole time.

And it is ok for social media sites to silence speech that violates its terms of use, but being pro-Ukraine (for example) doesn't violate any social media platform's terms of use that I'm aware of.




So do you agree with Trump,"yes"or "no" because it seems you have flip flopped?



--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (01/06/23 06:23 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28127940 - 01/06/23 06:22 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
When you advocate

1) A private business has no right to moderate their site as they see fit
2) The government should shut down said private business if it does not platform the people YOU want platformed



I don't advocate either of these things.  Can you guys follow the discussion and stop make believing?

I advocate:
1) The government has no right to moderate a private business' site


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127949 - 01/06/23 06:29 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Dude, you been here the whole ass time arguing against twitters content moderation and agreeing Trump should of shut them down for it.  That is EXACTLY what you have advocated for.  Stop projecting.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127986 - 01/06/23 06:44 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Taibbi is telling you how to interpret that email before you read it. That is called priming and it’s a classic technique used to manipulate the reader.



I quoted the Twitter executive, not Taibbi.




Quote:

You left out the latter part of that paragraph:  "...government partners are becoming more aggressive on attribution and reporting on it.  I'm going to go ahead with suspension and marking the domain as UNSAFE."

He literally said his reason for censoring was government aggression.




“aggressive on attribution” as in, the government is now really convinced this is a GRU account.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28128005 - 01/06/23 06:51 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
When you advocate

1) A private business has no right to moderate their site as they see fit
2) The government should shut down said private business if it does not platform the people YOU want platformed



I don't advocate either of these things.  Can you guys follow the discussion and stop make believing?

I advocate:
1) The government has no right to moderate a private business' site




But you think it’s ok for the government to completely moderate a private business by shutting it down or banning it.

This makes no sense except in the context where you want to claim you are a free speech advocate while also avoiding making any criticism of Russia’s crackdown on social media sites. It’s absurd. Everyone here knows it’s absurd. You know it’s absurd, but you have no choice but to have completely contradictory positions because in the end your main goal is to never criticize the Russian state.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28128039 - 01/06/23 07:16 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

koods said:
It’s ok for the government to silence everyone who uses a social media site, but not ok for a social media site to silence speech that violates its terms of use?

This is insane logic



Holy Crap, what a take from FW.  He said the quiet part out loud in his worldview.



NO.  IT'S NOT OK for government to silence people who use a social media site.  That's what I've been arguing this whole time.

And it is ok for social media sites to silence speech that violates its terms of use, but being pro-Ukraine (for example) doesn't violate any social media platform's terms of use that I'm aware of.




So do you agree with Trump,"yes"or "no" because it seems you have flip flopped?






?????


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (01/06/23 07:16 PM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #28128162 - 01/06/23 08:18 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If I start a website to discuss cute pets, I should probably have a right to censor content that isn't about cute pets.




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Trump was saying Social Media Platforms should be regulated so they don't silence voices.




Sounds like you're anti free speech.

Edit: forgot second quote

Edited by Kryptos (01/06/23 09:10 PM)

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kryptos]
    #28128181 - 01/06/23 08:29 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

falcon wouldnt have a political discussion thread on his cute pet webpage?? :awedisgust:

we have a cultivation with cat thread over at the mushroom boards:smirk:

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: mushboy]
    #28128274 - 01/06/23 09:11 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I dunno, man, kinda sounds like he's silencing political voices on his cute pet page. I think the government might need to shut that shit down, posthaste.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28128296 - 01/06/23 09:21 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
IT'S NOT OK for government to silence people who use a social media site.  That's what I've been arguing this whole time.

And it is ok for social media sites to silence speech that violates its terms of use, but being pro-Ukraine (for example) doesn't violate any social media platform's terms of use that I'm aware of.



So do you agree with Trump,"yes"or "no" because it seems you have flip flopped?






?????



No flip flop.  Government shouldn't silence voices on social media, period.
And social media shouldn't silence voices that don't go against their terms of service (for example, being pro-Ukraine).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28128303 - 01/06/23 09:23 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

So you agree with Trump?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kryptos]
    #28128328 - 01/06/23 09:34 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If I start a website to discuss cute pets, I should probably have a right to censor content that isn't about cute pets.




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Trump was saying Social Media Platforms should be regulated so they don't silence voices.




Sounds like you're anti free speech.

Edit: forgot second quote



Again, if a social media site is created to discuss a certain topic, then the site should be more or less limited to that topic.  If a site was created with no particular topic in mind, then content probably shouldn't be censored.

To me the question is "What's better?  Power to the people to say what they like?  Or power to the corporation to censor what they like?"


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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