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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #28127227 - 01/06/23 12:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I had no trouble understanding the decision itself - your representation of the decision is wrong. Yes, the Supreme Court reversed the decision; but not because it's 'not ok to censor content' as you put forth - rather, the decision was reversed because the state provided "no safeguards whatever against the suppression of nonobscene and constitutionally protected matter" in using a "system of prior administrative restraints without any provision for notice and hearing before publications are listed as 'objectionable' and without any provision for judicial review of the Commission's determination that such publications are 'objectionable.'"

I feel the simplest way to illustrate this distinction is by pointing out that the Supreme Court recommended criminal obscenity trials as the preferable method of regulation, because criminal sanctions "may be applied only after a determination of obscenity has been made in a criminal trial hedged about with the procedural safeguards of the criminal process." The decision isn't that the State must refrain from censorship - it's that the State must provide baked-in procedural safeguards to the process.



Exactly.  The Government can't censor unless they show content is illegal.  Precisely my point.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...the lack of aggrieved parties is much more likely to reflect an absence of coercion than anything more sinister.
If there was such a complaint, I would give their claim the benefit of the doubt - but it's not your role to claim other people were coerced into censorship.



There was clearly coercion and aggrieved parties (that is clear from the Twitter Files), and you saying otherwise doesn't change that. 

Don't take my word for it, look at the Twitter Files:



Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Once again, we've arrived at my favourite refrain: was your misinterpretation the result of ignorance of the material, or an intentional lie?



As shown above, I didn't misinterpret anything.

I recommend you stop with your constant poo poo head remarks and stick with civil discussion.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods] * 1
    #28127230 - 01/06/23 12:04 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Right you just want the government to shut down social media sites if they don’t platform speech you want platformed and platform speech you don’t want platformed. Like they do in Russia.



No.  I want social media platforms to stop censoring content, which the rest of you are cheerleading for.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28127259 - 01/06/23 12:34 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

And if they don’t you want the government to shut them down?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28127266 - 01/06/23 12:37 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Because fuck free speech for the owners of the platform.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28127273 - 01/06/23 12:44 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I can't think of anything less free speechy than to be telling privately owned entities that they have to help platform shit they don't believe or know is just downright false. But hey, in falcons ingsoc world, free is as free doesn't.


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 1
    #28127282 - 01/06/23 12:51 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Falcon is the most anti free speech person in this thread. He constantly defends Russia banning social media sites because he doesn’t like the speech they platform. He’s a liar and a fraud and nobody should take him seriously. He’s perfectly fine censoring a wide variety of speech he doesn’t like.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28127332 - 01/06/23 01:17 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Exactly.  The Government can't censor unless they show content is illegal.  Precisely my point.

There was clearly coercion and aggrieved parties (that is clear from the Twitter Files), and you saying otherwise doesn't change that. 

Don't take my word for it, look at the Twitter Files:



As shown above, I didn't misinterpret anything.

I recommend you stop with your constant poo poo head remarks and stick with civil discussion.




Consistently framing well-thought and supported arguments (like my summary of Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan) as "poo poo head remarks" is more childish than anything I've posted. Your unsupported single sentence rebuttals amount to an erroneous opinion, and nothing more.

For example, where does the decision claim that the State must show content is illegal? That's another misrepresentation on your part. On the other hand (referring to your provided summary):

Quote:

He wrote that although the Court’s decision in Roth v. United States (1957) held that obscenity was not protected by the First Amendment, state regulations must contain certain procedural safeguards.



The decision was, as I've already explained, about providing baked-in procedural safeguards; including, but not limited to, criminal trials.

As for your continued decision to claim other people were coerced into self-censorship, based on your own interpretation of innocuous phrases like "our window on that is closing" - it's not worth the pixels it takes up on my screen, let alone a serious response. Show someone claiming State coercion if you want that response from me - but I don't care to argue against your personal make believe.


--------------------

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28127528 - 01/06/23 03:09 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

If people didn't want their representatives to be saying these things they wouldn't have voted for them. You seem to think the government has no right to free speech which is nonsense. It's literally their job to speak for the people. If people are concerned about things like misinformation on social media it's their right to ask these companies done about it. That's not the same as forcing them to do something about it.


--------------------

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kizzle]
    #28127595 - 01/06/23 03:41 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Yep. It's clear the republican echo chamber has scrambled some brains. If they hear anything besides a very specific echo, its the result of some conspiratorial corruption.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineKwyjibo
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127627 - 01/06/23 04:06 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

If I start a website to discuss cute pets, I should probably have a right to censor content that isn't about cute pets.



Then why don't you believe social media companies have the same right to choose what is on their platform?

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #28127643 - 01/06/23 04:15 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Why just cute pets will you ban me for posting an adorable but ugly mutt?

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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: mushboy]
    #28127664 - 01/06/23 04:28 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Pug fucking...is that ban worthy?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kickle]
    #28127669 - 01/06/23 04:29 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Ain’t nobody wants to see that


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127684 - 01/06/23 04:37 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

There was clearly coercion and aggrieved parties (that is clear from the Twitter Files), and you saying otherwise doesn't change that. 

Don't take my word for it, look at the Twitter Files:



Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Once again, we've arrived at my favourite refrain: was your misinterpretation the result of ignorance of the material, or an intentional lie?



As shown above, I have misinterpreted everything.




FTFY

I don't think what you posted shows
    a)aggrieved parties
    b)coercion
    But do explain whom is the aggrieved party?  Also, how were they coerced?


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28127709 - 01/06/23 04:53 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Pug fucking...is that ban worthy?




What if it’s satire?

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28127833 - 01/06/23 05:45 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
And if they don’t you want the government to shut them down?



Then they don't silence people.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28127860 - 01/06/23 05:50 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Falcon is the most anti free speech person in this thread. He constantly defends Russia banning social media sites because he doesn’t like the speech they platform. He’s a liar and a fraud and nobody should take him seriously. He’s perfectly fine censoring a wide variety of speech he doesn’t like.



No, I don't defend it, I explain it.

And I disagree with many here that more censorship means more freedom of speech.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28127884 - 01/06/23 05:54 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
And if they don’t you want the government to shut them down?



Then they don't silence people.




It’s ok for the government to silence everyone who uses a social media site, but not ok for a social media site to silence speech that violates its terms of use?

This is insane logic


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28127902 - 01/06/23 06:06 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Consistently framing well-thought and supported arguments (like my summary of Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan) as "poo poo head remarks" is more childish than anything I've posted.



I didn't frame your argument as "poo poo head remarks"; it was a good summary and I even said "Exactly".  I framed your calling me a liar as a poo poo head remark.

Now, I can do like you and call you a liar for saying I framed your arguments "poo poo head remarks", or I can do like an adult and say you clearly misinterpreted me.  I'll take the latter approach.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...where does the decision claim that the State must show content is illegal? That's another misrepresentation on your part.



Let me quote your own post:
Quote:

I feel the simplest way to illustrate this distinction is by pointing out that the Supreme Court recommended criminal obscenity trials as the preferable method of regulation...



What's the difference between criminal and illegal?

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
As for your continued decision to claim other people were coerced into self-censorship, based on your own interpretation of innocuous phrases like "our window on that is closing" - it's not worth the pixels it takes up on my screen, let alone a serious response.



You left out the latter part of that paragraph:  "...government partners are becoming more aggressive on attribution and reporting on it.  I'm going to go ahead with suspension and marking the domain as UNSAFE."

He literally said his reason for censoring was government aggression.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28127908 - 01/06/23 06:08 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
And if they don’t you want the government to shut them down?



Then they don't silence people.




It’s ok for the government to silence everyone who uses a social media site, but not ok for a social media site to silence speech that violates its terms of use?

This is insane logic



Holy Crap, what a take from FW.  He said the quiet part out loud in his worldview.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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