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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: iggyhiggy]
    #28054061 - 11/16/22 07:36 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
My point was why assume it was a lie.  I doubt Biden knows much more about vaccines than the average American, which is not a whole lot.  Biden's statement was likely the truth as he knew it at the time. :shrug:. I'm sure there have been plenty of times Biden and every other president has lied intentionally, and ideally politicians would be as honest as they can, but I'm not naive and don't expect that ever to happen.  In this particular instance that you used as an example though, it just seems unlikely that he was lying.  It's not lying to be wrong, and furthermore it's a topic many people don't have a strong understanding of.  When the vaccines came out, most people thought they would make you immune to the disease, despite the fact that no vaccine in history has ever been that good.

Edit: posting on phone really makes this a wall of text



Falcon has previously explained that he thinks any false statement is a lie regardless of whether the person believed the statement to be true at the time the statement was made.




BUT, at the same time,


Quote:

iggyhiggy  said:
a sincere question just to make your point and methods clear, i mentioned a few examples of misreprentations (as i said 'non-technically fake news') from RT, and in particular their tendency to one sided reports, often without fact-checking. Would you also consider a similar behaviour from a news outlet (be it RT, CNN or The Daily Stocazzo) 'fake news'?

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

No.  I consider fake news when you intentionally lie about something.










So it depends every time



Actually, there's no inconsistency there.  He said "intentionally lie."  If he believed a lie required intent, that would be redundant.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

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Offlineiggyhiggy
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
    #28054201 - 11/16/22 09:22 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

So, in falcon's view, one can lie by mistake and it is bad, but it's ok to intentionally misrepresent news?

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28054280 - 11/16/22 10:25 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
To be clear, are you saying the DOJ can start an investigation on anyone it wants for no reason?



That is exactly what he is saying.  You expose your if ignorance about US law more and more.  Probable cause is needed for a search warrant.




Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
To be clear, are you saying the DOJ can start an investigation on anyone it wants for no reason?



Yes.




I'll admit I didn't know that and I find it rather surprising.

Quote:

Enlil said:
They don't need probable cause to investigate trump.  Why should Trump have special privileges?



Did Trump get special privileges by being investigated?  Why didn't they investigate Biden for his potential Ukraine and China connections?




You don’t know they didn’t


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28054282 - 11/16/22 10:26 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I am not in Trump's head.  It is very possible that he did illegal things with Russia.  It is also very possible that he committed crimes.  I am not privy to the universe of information out there.

The DOJ can investigate anyone for any crime or potential crime.  Coordination between trump and a russian hacker could very well be a crime, depending on the substance of that coordination.



You don't have to be in Trump's head to determine if the DOJ had probable cause to investigate Trump.

The bottom line is that they investigated a potential crime, and couldn't find one.




They found lots of crimes.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
    #28055072 - 11/16/22 07:33 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Falcon has previously explained that he thinks any false statement is a lie regardless of whether the person believed the statement to be true at the time the statement was made.



I seriously doubt that because that's not what I think.  I think if a news organization passes unsupported stories as facts, then that's a lie.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: iggyhiggy]
    #28055111 - 11/16/22 07:52 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
a sincere question just to make your point and methods clear, i mentioned a few examples of misreprentations (as i said 'non-technically fake news') from RT, and in particular their tendency to one sided reports, often without fact-checking.



Many people who worked for RT complained they are meticulous about fact checking, and you haven't provided any examples of something they haven't fact checked.

Here's what you said:

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
I mean, saying that Russia would never invade Ukraine was fake news.



Who said Russia "would never invade Ukraine"?  I recall them saying Russia had no intention of invading Ukraine.  Until Ukraine showed it intended to retake Donbas and Crimea (as admitted by Poroshenko).

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Also telling that the russian warship sunk in april was an incident is fake news.



They reported that a specific military commander said that.  He did.

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
i still consider them to be fake news (or better, misrepresentations) as journalists should verify their source, not just repeating what they are told to.



I somewhat agree, but if they report what their source is, then I personally wouldn't consider it a lie.

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Would you also consider a similar behaviour from a news outlet (be it RT, CNN or The Daily Stocazzo) 'fake news'?



Depends on whether they make a claim they are unable to back up. 

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I consider fake news when you intentionally lie about something.



So it depends every time



No.  Intentionally lying is fake news every time.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
    #28055112 - 11/16/22 07:53 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It's certainly clear that trump doesn't know much, but he also says a lot of things that he knows to be untrue when he says it.  That makes him a liar.



If true, then I agree.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: iggyhiggy]
    #28055116 - 11/16/22 07:54 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
So, in falcon's view, one can lie by mistake and it is bad, but it's ok to intentionally misrepresent news?



:lolwut:

Exactly the opposite.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28055136 - 11/16/22 08:07 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Falcon has previously explained that he thinks any false statement is a lie regardless of whether the person believed the statement to be true at the time the statement was made.



I seriously doubt that because that's not what I think.  I think if a news organization passes unsupported stories as facts, then that's a lie.




Like when Sputnik claimed Elon musk was giving access to user data to investors?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28055193 - 11/16/22 08:52 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Sputnik's not one of my favorite Russian sources, but at least they used the word "possibly".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineiggyhiggy
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28055535 - 11/17/22 12:26 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
a sincere question just to make your point and methods clear, i mentioned a few examples of misreprentations (as i said 'non-technically fake news') from RT, and in particular their tendency to one sided reports, often without fact-checking.



Many people who worked for RT complained they are meticulous about fact checking, and you haven't provided any examples of something they haven't fact checked.

Here's what you said:

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
I mean, saying that Russia would never invade Ukraine was fake news.



Who said Russia "would never invade Ukraine"?  I recall them saying Russia had no intention of invading Ukraine.  Until Ukraine showed it intended to retake Donbas and Crimea (as admitted by Poroshenko).

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Also telling that the russian warship sunk in april was an incident is fake news.



They reported that a specific military commander said that.  He did.

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
i still consider them to be fake news (or better, misrepresentations) as journalists should verify their source, not just repeating what they are told to.



I somewhat agree, but if they report what their source is, then I personally wouldn't consider it a lie.

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Would you also consider a similar behaviour from a news outlet (be it RT, CNN or The Daily Stocazzo) 'fake news'?



Depends on whether they make a claim they are unable to back up. 

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I consider fake news when you intentionally lie about something.



So it depends every time



No.  Intentionally lying is fake news every time.




This is again your multiple standard.
RT just reported Putin's words about 'intentions' (until the day before invasion),and per se it's ok and correct, thats why i called it a 'non technically fake ' news. But all news outlet (including Westrn ones) reported Putins words.
At the same time, if you consider them (RT) real 'journalists' who complain about them constantly 'fact-checking', they shouldn't  restrict to report ONE voice. Considering nobody is in Putin's (or in anyone else's) mind, putin's words are not more a 'confirmed source' than, say, western intellicences and government. And I cant believe their only source is Putin, as those days anyone was louding about the probable invasion.
Then IMO its obvious that they intentionally reported a single voice with the precise intent of depicting it as the only truth.
And similar reasonment holds for the sunk ship. so applying YOUR OWN METRIC you should agree that they intenyionally lied. and you changed your statement (you'll deny and climb another mirror).

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Would you also consider a similar behaviour from a news outlet (be it RT, CNN or The Daily Stocazzo) 'fake news'?
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Depends on whether they make a claim they are unable to back up. 







If you say that Putin's words are news per se (and actually are, even if nobody can confirm real intentions), also the talks about invasion or the ones about the ship sunk by missiles are news. One could say that, in name of 'free speech' they're free to report the news they want, until they're 'true'. On the other hand, you know, there's a thing called 'complete information' about inbformation quality...as example, the argument for US intervention in Iraq were MDW. Saddams government, and others, said that it was a lie. I perfectly recall news here reporting both, and also reporting about US lied on MDW when it came out.
If they only reported about US statements on MDW (true or not, they really stated it) omitting others, wouldn't it be a sort of lie? I think yes, even if a 'non-technically fake' news. But it seems (from YOUR words) that it would be ok.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: iggyhiggy]
    #28056543 - 11/17/22 04:27 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Turns out Elon Musk lied about his degrees, never graduated college, and managed to buy an economics degree through Peter Thiel's connections because he was an illegal immigrant and needed a degree to get a visa to stay in the US back in the 90s.

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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Kryptos]
    #28056899 - 11/17/22 06:59 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Musk sent out an email to all employees telling them they either need to be onboard with working crazy hours or they must reign as of 5pm today. Apparently hundreds of key employees decided to resign and musk has decided to shut down all Twitter offices until Monday. Employee access badges no longer work.

Crazy

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/17/tech/twitter-employees-ultimatum-deadline/index.html

Quote:

New York(CNN Business) — Another employee exodus appears to be underway at Twitter as many workers rejected Elon Musk's terms for staying with the company, choosing instead to depart, according to multiple current and former employees.

As the deadline approached for Twitter employees to respond to Elon Musk's ultimatum to commit to working in an "extremely hardcore" fashion at the company or leave, some employees appeared to publicly indicate they had chosen the latter option. On Thursday afternoon, Twitter staffers began posting the salute emoji, which has become a signal that someone is exiting the company. One Twitter employee said in a tweet that deciding to join the company was "one of the easiest decisions ever made. Deciding to leave today was 100% the opposite."

Meanwhile, an internal Slack channel at the company was filled with employees posting the salute emoji after the 5pm ET deadline, indicating they had chosen not to sign Musk's pledge and depart the company, employees told CNN.

Twitter's remaining workforce had until 5 p.m. ET on Thursday to decide whether they wanted to be a part of the culture Musk wants to implement at the social media company, or else effectively resign, according to an email he sent to staff Wednesday.

A former Twitter executive who recently exited the company described Thursday's employee exits as a "mass exodus."

On Thursday evening following the exits, employees remaining at the company received an email alerting them that the company's offices will be temporarily closed and badge access will be restricted through Monday, according to a copy of the email obtained by CNN from a current Twitter employee. Musk's team similarly shuttered offices during the mass layoffs earlier this month out of a concern for safety and an apparent fear that exiting employees could attempt to sabotage the company on their way out.






--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (11/17/22 07:03 PM)

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28057249 - 11/17/22 10:02 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

A lot of accounts that were banned before Elon have not been restored. Rumor has it that apple and google have put their foot down and told Twitter that the Twitter app would be delisted from the app stores if certain accounts were reactivated


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28057508 - 11/18/22 05:04 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
A lot of accounts that were banned before Elon have not been restored. Rumor has it that apple and google have put their foot down and told Twitter that the Twitter app would be delisted from the app stores if certain accounts were reactivated



With 75% of his workers gone from Twitter I think Twitter is gonna be fucked.


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28057562 - 11/18/22 06:14 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

thank jebus. imo twitter has always been a shit show.

all the worst parts of AIM perverted into a cringefest.

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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: mushboy]
    #28057609 - 11/18/22 06:55 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I'm pretty sure Twitter is just going to serve as 8$ advertising for crypto schemes.ots already pretty much only good for crypto traders to rally up marks.


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: mushboy]
    #28057610 - 11/18/22 06:56 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

280 characters at a time it allows free speech to happen. Wake up, brother.


--------------------
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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28057838 - 11/18/22 09:07 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
I'm pretty sure Twitter is just going to serve as 8$ advertising for crypto schemes.ots already pretty much only good for crypto traders to rally up marks.




The majority of 8$ verified accounts push right wing politics, crypto, and porn.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28057951 - 11/18/22 09:47 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
With 75% of his workers gone from Twitter I think Twitter is gonna be fucked.



I think he'll be able to leverage the recent boom in usage.

"Hope Servers Don't Melt": Elon Musk Claims Twitter Usage Is All-Time High


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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